RBE

1 hour ago, Southernman46 said:

Speaking of which we could really do with a 00 re-issue especially the older Redland version please 🙏

We are looking at another run of those.

1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said:

Fully agree, I too dislike bogie mounted couplings as, in my opinion, they detract from an otherwise perfect looking loco. 
 

Roy

It depends where they are fitted and whether there is an option for fit kinematic type couplers. There's very little option for a Kinematic on something like a 37 or 47 with the bogies right up behind the bufferbeam. I don't really see how the NEM pocket differs if bogie mounted or kinematic mounted tbh, its still in the same place.

4 minutes ago, Revolution Mike B said:

I’ll bring a Symoba up to MRS Cav 👍

Cool. I'm only there on the Friday though mate.

8 minutes ago, Revolution Mike B said:

The whole idea of the kinematic mech is to allow the coupler to extend out in an arc when traversing curves to enable close coupling - something which you cannot do with bogie mounted couplers (my comment is not directed at Cav), and the couplers on the 56 do their job well as they will pull with the curve and weight of the train behind it. The reason bogies have a cut out with kinematic systems is to allow the coupler mech to move without fouling the bogie and not, as assumed, to make the bogie move the coupling mech.
 

There’s a bit of a dark art when designing the things in terms of spring tension, arc, and physical shape, but putting that to one side, on the whole, as a modeller, I would always prefer body mounted kinematic couplers over bogie mounted ones, as with the sprung buffer vs fixed buffer argument. If I didn’t have sprung buffers on certain stock, it wouldn’t go through the fiddle yard on Oak Road when close coupled, or in this case, without kinematic mechs on the couplers.  
 

As an aside, the best kinematic coupling system I’ve ever seen is made by Symoba and its tiny but has an unbelievably smooth mechanism. It’s also a very simple design that eradicates any stickiness within the movement. 
 

Whilst I agree to a degree, our PGA kinematics are absolutely superb, they do in general cause more trouble than they solve IMO. The idea behind them is good but as I said once you get a lot of weight on them you are relying massively on the spring pulling it to centre or the brute force of the coupling pulling sideways back to centre by the stock to get it into the middle at which  point you potentially get the aforementioned potential derailing of the first wagon. On top of that there is more vertical movement in the pocket which is also undesirable.

47 minutes ago, david12345 said:

This would be great, I am having problems with pulling wagons round curves with mine. Weighting the 1st wagon makes everything run perfectly. Waiting on Kadees arriving which will hopefully solve the issue. Might try some ptfe dry lubricant too to see if it helps.

The issue with Kinematics, and this is something that I have faced as a modeller too, is that they are great if your train is light. However the nature of how it works is a little counter productive. The weight of the train is taken on the chassis as the coupling moves out on the curve extending the spring that holds the coupling central, however when moving back onto a straight the coupling has to pull itself back in to get over the central 'mountain' that pulls the train back in reducing buffer gap. That's all well and good but the very spring that has to stretch on corners now has to overcome the weight of the train to bring it back to centre. You are effectively asking the spring to be both contradictory things. I do often wonder if we need to drop the buffer gap pride a little and just simply substitute the kinematic couplers for a simple sprung draught box.

Just now, Gilbert said:

Thanks - in which I should be fine as I have Bachman and SLW locos that work well on the layout already - I was concerned that the nail modification may be necessary!

Chris

If I'm honest I still don't know what the nail does. 🤷

1 minute ago, Gilbert said:

I'm yet to fit Kadees to my 56s - is the coupler pocket design going to make a coupling/uncoupling problematic if any curve is involved?

Has anyone out there tried it?

I won't get round to it for a day or to - I certainly plan to use my RF liveried 56 for a bit of shunting on Penmaenbach which has long Peco BH points.

Chris

No more so than any other kinematic coupler. It's a standard design.

Uncoupling Kadees on curves is problematic whether the pocket is kinematic or not.

10 hours ago, IOW O2 said:

Thanks for info.  The nail is to push the coupling to follow curve as if it were on the bogie. (not explaining this well). Hope the 60 has bogie ones.

 

I use GM simulation/inertia controllers so use a lot of coasting to slow before applying the brake to stop.  Only tested against others after slowing into terminal platform first time and stopped shorter than expected when brake applied .  Has much better control than the others now I've done more running (a lot) today.

 

At least with your DC we get the switchable cab lights, I like them on, esp. when room lights in dusk.  Just need the fan answer, Great model and has relegated the Deltic now.

 

 

 

 

I am looking at revising the the model to have bogie mounted pockets for the 60 but it will depend on whether they foul the snowplough etc. 

As for the fans on DC, there is an issue with the current DC blanking plate and we will be making a replacement available that solves the issue soon.

4 minutes ago, zr2498 said:

Yes, I had the quick ref card for the sound fitted (my first 56 purchase).

I had to settle for a DCC ready for a second 56 (too slow). That box did not have the card so on upgrading to sound, I copied the first one and printed onto photo paper. I know the info is in the booklet, but it would be handy to have the ref card in all boxes.

That's odd. I thought the card was in all of them, maybe not. It is in the booklet for all of them certainly.

7 hours ago, zr2498 said:

Excellent news. It would be useful if the card showing the function list was included in the package, or perhaps a download reference from the web site.

It is already included in the booklet and on the quick ref card in the box.

9 hours ago, IOW O2 said:

Thought I would add my weathering pic.  Managed to picked up the last 08 DC only, from John Duffield in Chelmsford on Saturday, gave me 5% off as well! Only 4 other DC variations left at the time. Lovely model, added crew, pipes and small weathering, want it to look like a couple weeks out of works, easiest body removal ever.

 

Had to trim back all sand pipes as they completely stopped both bogies moving and jamming up completely, causing derailing even on gentle curve (@ radius 7), no probs after trimming.

 

Only thing I criticise (I'm sure others wouldn't) is there is not much flywheel momentum. Running on to an isolated section on GM controller 50 speed setting, it stops 1 inch past, in comparison AS Deltic 6", 10 year old Bach 37 (solid buffers one) weight 50g lighter, runs on 5". Full speed AS 2ft, Bach 18" Cav 4". 

 

Also unsure how the kinematic coupling action is supposed to work, not connected to bogies so doesn't turn on bends like coach ones do. But good for the bash plate on front. Pic 2 below shows a mod I did so it turns on my l/h curves with a nail to push below pocket.  All in all fab haul 24 coaches no problem.

I'm not quite sure what the nail does? The Kinematic works like any other kinematic coupler. They don't swing with the bogie but they move to the side under load like any other. Personally I am not a big fan of them but when bogies sit back a bit like class 56 ones do then bogie mounted couplings can get restricted by the sand boxes etc. My ethos moving forward with design for Cavalex is to use bogie mounted couplers wherever possible.

As for the flywheels, they are a standard size used in US locos. There is enough weight in them for what they are meant to do, that being to smooth out any uneven movement in the drivetrain, the power bank on DCC also does this even better, and the interia is built into the decoder settings. I am not sure what inertial run on in DC really proves in this instance, driving on DC should be full controller control anyway, no one is chopping to zero and hoping the train stops in right place on interia only. 

I will be the first to admit that our loco is very much designed for DCC with DC being accommodated as best we can with the complexity that multifunction DCC provides.

DCC (and very much DCC sound) is where the hobby is going and DC is kind of like still trying to make modern software to also be compatible with Windows XP. 🤷

30 minutes ago, Marcoblanco said:

no sound options left. If Mr Lego is lurking around, can he or others answer; I see that the Lego cav 56 decoder on offer on the website lists functions but only one for fan [?] is this a misprint as surely the fans need 2 functions as separately operated..

We are currently working on an all in one plug and play upgrade kit with Cavalex Loksound V5 and ESU Speaker in one package. If you can wait a tad longer they will be available to purchase soon.

6 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Ok,its probably slightly off centre , but not by much , 

 

 

They do tend to vary. Photo angle also makes a difference.

6 minutes ago, Dorset33 said:

Sticking my head above the parapet here, but looking at the photo of the Colas 56 above compared to 048 below, isn’t the bogie too far back? The real one is past the door to the front to my eye, at a leat favourable angle as well? The middle axle looks closer to the front compared with the rear?

The angle of the photo makes the bogie appear in different locations as the bogie is further in than the bodyside. The wheels are also not evenly spaced on the real one. 

8 minutes ago, Carver Bridge TMD said:

Morning all

 

Got my 097 the other day after some delays with Rails,  and I absolutely love it. Been running it alongside my old Hornby 037 Richard Trevithick and I'm hugely relieved to see that it doesn't completely blow that one out of the water either, since Dickey T is an old favourite of mine I really didn't want to move her on. 

 

One question though, and it's probably pretty daft, I noticed that the colours between the two don't match at all. Is this two different eras of livery? Or has the Hornby one become discoloured with age?

 

i have no idea why the uploader is choosing to flip the image over, its the right way up on my phone

The Hornby one has none of the sector colours correct.

On 30/01/2024 at 08:22, RBE said:

Hi tlm, I'm glad that you like the loco we are very proud of what we have achieved and it's great to see that customers are also enjoying the model.

 

Onto your comments regarding DCC setup and driving. I think the issue here is that you are not driving the loco as we intended it to be driven. We took the decision early on to do our own thing rather than follow convention. The other issue is that not all people like to drive the same way and to cater for all is a hard task which is what led to the 'manual drive mode' F25 key to give effectively two set ups in one. 

 

In my opinion the best way to drive this loco is with F25 off and just use the throttle and drive lock but we were aware that some people like the manual brake so have added that in as an option rather than choose one or the other. 

 

If you are switching between F25 on and off while trying to drive then that is the issue right there, the intention is that you choose your poison and stick to it. Those that like manual brake etc keep F25 on at all times and those that drive throttle should keep F25 off. Of course F25 locks you out of manual flange squeal and two tone horns but we had to make a sacrifice somewhere and as we don't like driving with brake we made that the secondary mode so to speak (we had to choose one 🤣), we chose F2 for the two tone because on the Prodigy it is the only function that is none latching and the playable horns can be hard to play when having to turn them on then off and then the other on then off. But this of course clashes with the brake function. 

 

Driving with throttle either in yards or on the main couldn't be easier. Set the loco moving move the throttle to the desired speed and drive, if you want to coast hit F5 and throttle back the loco will spool down and rattle along the track, once at the braking point simply hit F5 again and the loco will re-aquire the set throttle speed, if that's zero it brakes, if it not it will slow down or speed up to whatever the throttle is set to. In this scenario the F5 key kind of works like a brake anyway. 

 

On manual mode you simply drive it the same way accept that you don't have to wind the throttle back but instead just brake with F2. If you are doing a drive lock coast then you don't have to disengage F5 but use the brake instead to stop, however if you did disengage F5 then it would still brake anyway so for me I prefer to not use the brake at all and leave F25 off. Just a note on F6, this is heavy train mode and should be off if shunting light in the yard. F6 as a mode has a high revving idle to simulate the loco being given amps to charge the compressor ready to take the train brakes of and move a large train. There is no need to be juggling F6 when doing yard moves. With F6 on the revs will never die to a proper idle as it's charging the compressor.

 

The correct way to use F6 is to use it when you are about to get a heavy train going. You set F6 and wait for the revs to build up. Once revving you then notch the throttle forward and get the train going, once moving you add power and you will find the inertia slow to respond but the engine working hard with both fans spinning. You can leave F6 on whilst getting the train going or simulating the train working hard but if you then intend to stop or coast the train you should disengage the F6 and then do either F5 and throttle back to coast (and then brake if you are in F25 mode) or throttle back to slow the train in normal mode.

 

The drivability of the loco was based on our real driver consultant's instruction of how he drove the real loco's so we wanted to replicate that. It takes a bit of a play to get used to how to drive it properly but once it all clicks it's crazy fun.

 

Regarding the flange squeal, I would like to know what you dislike about it? The only issue that we have is that the hall sensor for auto squeal wasn't set sensitive enough for our liking by ESU and it wasn't discovered until too late that the sensitivity is hard coded in a chip on the main board (this is set to change on all future locos, as new chip tech allows this to be changed in CV programming which the older chip didn't) so was locked in, this prompted the addition of a manual flange squeal function to complement the auto activation, I don't think the manual option is a bad idea anyway as it allows it to be applied as and when needed. I witnessed a class 60 and train flange squealing in the yard at Willesden a few months ago when it was on the straight, so all good to apply just when you fancy a bit of track noise. 

 

As for the sound of the flanges themselves, they are speed sensitive so change sound dependent on speed and these were actual recordings from 56105 on the yard at Shrewsbury. To us they are the most realistic sounding flange squeals that I have heard to date, your mileage may vary.

 

Anyway it's always good to get feedback and of course we welcome all comments, how else do we improve on what we deliver? 

Here's the driving advice. We also have a version of this in the manual under driving experience.

3 minutes ago, The Meerkat said:

 

hiya just a quarry,  the dc rail 56,  they don't have the cab aerials?

The real one had them removed. 

5 minutes ago, Midnight-Freight said:

This is what I was questioning a little earlier in the thread. I have a Hattons decoder taken from my factory fitted dcc fitted class 66 which I believe is 6 function. I only have working headlight and marker lights which is presumably 3 functions so if there's a way to assign the remaining 3 to tail lights and fan that would be ideal but I'm unsure if/how to do this.

You should be able to access the functions on any DCC decoder, however the Hattons 66 decoder is set up for that particular loco so why would it work correctly with the 56?

1 minute ago, APT Fan said:

Probably a daft question but would fitting the front detailing pack foul the coupling hook if also fitted? The reason for the question is the hook would be needed for occasional double heading. Thanks.

The loco can negotiate some curves with the pipes in place. Probably not 2nd radius though. The screw link and bang grid are both removable at will so those should be ok. Just depends how much the inner pipes restrict coupler swing.

3 minutes ago, 87027 said:

Afternoon all, 

 

Just a quick couple of queries for the nice folks at Cavalex and apologies if already answered further back in the thread. I’ve come to detailing my coal sector 56023 and was wondering if a set of BR arrows and Toton depot plaques should have been included with the model, or is this only the case with 56074? If so, are there any spare sets available for 074 that you could send me? (Would obviously be more than happy to pay for these if so). And finally are there any details on the loco as modelled that wouldn’t be correct if modelled with the arrows/plaques?

 

Loco end details added and despite the locations being awkward (as per the real thing) was a doddle to fit, the rotating Screwlink drawbar was a very nice touch! 
 

Thanks in advance,

 

Luke.

 

 

Hi Luke, 023 didn't have the plaques etc in the period modelled so are not included in the pack. Send us an email at cavalexmodels@gmail.com and we will sort out a set for you from 074.

2 minutes ago, Pendle Forest said:

Somewhat miffed.  Having bought DCC Ready and then finding out the decoders need to be specially formatted, I've been trying to source one.  A supplier has said they can send me a Bachmann alternative but that there is a charge for the formating.  I don't see why!  This seems like a slightly underhand service charge. I was sold something that is DCC Ready... I.e. put a decoder in and it should work.  There was no mention it was any different to any other 21pin decoder loco. Now I'm being charged for the privilege of accessing the functions because its non-standard - pay the charge or you can't have.  Taken the edge off what's otherwise a brilliant model

Provided you choose a decoder with enough functions then you can still access them all. However you will have to determine which functions operate what.

You do not need a preprogrammed chip for basic functions but if you require more then you will need the specific chip. With new ever complex lighting functions demanded by DCC users I am afraid that there is no longer a one size fits all approach.

1 hour ago, owentherail said:

I've 6 of these lovely locos from cavalex..... 5 run fine but one keeps derailing,  even on straights sometimes, the bogey frames look on ok, any other thoughts what it mite be, before I consider sending it back.

Cheers 

Owen 

That's very odd indeed. Can you send us an email to cavalexmodels@gmail.com with a close video to help us determine the issue. 

1 minute ago, Dragonfly said:

I ended up giving up on one of my pre orders, as it would seem that at least one of the retailers didn't get them. But although the one I wanted had sold out by then, managed to get a very similar one from Rails.

Only one retailer didn't get them and anyone with a pre-order with them should contact us direct at cavalexmodels@gmail.com so that it can be sorted out.

38 minutes ago, james-htfc said:

My pair have eventually turned up. Was starting to get impatient having originally ordered them back in June 2021. All these photos and YouTube videos were only heightening my anticipation!

Apparently Rails hadn't been supplied with enough of the Sound Fitted models to fulfil their orders so there was a slight delay. The EWS Sound one I received doesn't have the official Loksound/Sound Fitted stickers on the box, but instead has Rails' own Sound Fitted sticker over the 'DCC Fitted' text on the box. It's also missing the A4 sheet with all the sound functions on. 🤔 No biggie I guess as I'll probably type it up from the small version in the booklet.

This one appears to work faultlessly and the sound is extremely impressive. As a person who just likes to plonk trains on the track and get them running, the random background sounds are a really nice touch. Driveability seems superb. Also head/tail light brightness is super-realistic! Working fans aren't really for me but appreciate the effort in this area. A real step up from my Hornby examples, which have always had minor niggles and running issues (seized gears, troublesome fan rubber belts...)

Unfortunatley both models came unseated on their plinths, the EWS one seems ok, however my DCC Fitted Loadhaul version is damaged. I thought I'd mention this on here first in case it's an easy fix rather than me having to return to Rails after waiting all this time.

The end of one of the bogies splays outwards meaning the rear axle won't stay on the track as one end of the wheelset is 'floating'. I tried applying a bit of force to try and 'clip' the bogie back together but as there are some fragile looking parts I didn't want to risk damaging it further - any advice Cavalex?

 

The only other minor issue with this is one of the sprung buffers sticks in when pushed.

Overall very impressed and definitely worth the wait, just slightly disheartened with one arriving damaged.

 

The bogies are designed to split to allow for wheelsets maintenance and wheel changing. If you remove the bottom keeper plate (there are four clips, one on each corner) that will release the side frames and you can then slide them outward to release the wheels. Don't pull it too far. You should then be able to reset the wheels into the pick up bearings on the side frames and reclip the keeper plate back on. If you have issues you are welcome to return the model to us direct for a warranty repair.

12 minutes ago, Peter749 said:

I was looking at something like that but I don't think my knowledge is good enough.

I will order a Decoder from DC Kits.

 

Thanks

 

Peter

DC Kits will be able to blow ESUs file on for you. I think currently they have programmed their own to access functions  but of course the ESU version is the correctly tailored one that we recommend.