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Early thinking was that the sleepers would have a hypnotic 'flickering' effect on drivers, and so certain designs had noses. Later it was established that was in fact utter nonsense, and the practice abandoned. HTH Regards Matt

Thanks for the Replies all. Thanks Gents, I was sceptical of it being a tube because it didn't look tall enough to my eyes, but I can clearly see it is that now, especially when checking against: Paul Bartlett - BR design diag 1/448 STV ZAV, ZAV, ZDB, ZDV, ZDW, ZDX, ZGV ZSW That'll make an interesting little conversion project. I wouldn't tell if they were Chassis' or Tractor Units, but some Leyland model names is certainly a pointer in the right direction. Not sure if this would have 'picked up' anything on route, WTT indicates that the service "Traffic and Shunts for other trains to pass", as indicated in by the * and bold text for time, so it can't be ruled out as a possibility based on my limited knowledge and understanding of wording in the WTT. Others may know better. I think we can safely rule out FMA's, as they were converted in 1976 according to Paul Bartlett (Source: Paul Bartlett - BR Freightflat lorry carrier carrier FMA ) and the use of a 4 character alpha numeric headcode display dates this image prior to 1/1/1976, upon which all panel were set to display '0O00'. But thanks for the input everyone! Much appreciated. Regards Matt

Hi All, While browsing Flickr, I came across this gem of inspiration from 1975: Some treasure in the comments section. 8G80 was the 06:00 Registered Wagon Service (RWS) from Carlisle New Yard to Bescot. Some digging in my archives, reveals the service ran as such in 1974, Routed over the S&C, re-joining the WCML at Farrington, with a change from Diesel to electric traction probably at Warrington, limited to 50 Standard Length Unit (SLU). 2x 22T Plate Wagons (Barrier Vehicles? Comment section thinks the Gunpowder Van is returning empty to Penrhyndeudraeth) 1x Gunpowder Van 4x 12T Ventilated Vans 1x 22T Tube Wagon (modified for 'Ale-in-Cask' traffic with the addition of an extra plank all round) 1-2x Open Wagon(s) - The first reason for this thread. 1x 12T Ventilated Van 1x 12T Shock Absorbing Van 1-3x Flat Wagons with what I assume are Leyland Lorry Tractor Units (Apologies, I'm far from an expert on road vehicles) - The second reason for this thread. Everything else unknown, but I think it safe to assume a 20T Brake Van is slung on the end. I did manage some small amount of digging, and came across this from 1977: These look to be MAT 94xxx series Carflat's, but whether or not these wagon's would be common to those used on 8G80, remains to be seen. I'm afraid I'm a little out of my depth on this one, so my two questions are; 1) Any idea what wagon(s) 8(9) might be? 22T Tube Wagon (modified for 'Ale-in-Cask' traffic with the addition of an extra plank all round) 2) Any information on what this traffic flow might be? And likelihood of those wagons being MAT 94xxx Carflat's. Any help greatly appreciated. Regards Matt

Gents, I'm extremely saddened by this news, my condolences to all affected and hopes for a speedy resolution. Regards

86217 seen at Winwick Junction on the 7A09 Carlisle - Willesden freight with flask on 12-6-74. I Cuthbertson collection by Ian Cuthbertson, on Flickr That 6 Axle Flatrol MJ Nuclear Flask wagon is begging to be modelled.

I believe this is to accommodate crew changes in Newcastle Station. Regards Matt

Hi Ken, Thanks for clearing that up, I was struggling to comprehend it's meaning. Clearly my thinking it was an ELR was incorrect. I'll add some notes to my spreadsheet explaining. Regards Matt

Thanks BeRTIe, Bardon Mill is also listed as the starting point in the Section K WTT of Conditional train Services 7th May to 30 September 1973. Bardon Mill Colliery is listed as closing on 24th November 1973 (Source: Durham Mining Museum), which explains why it's not in the Section K WTT of Conditional train Services 6th May to 6th October 1974. Willowholme GEGB Power Station would close on the 27th October 1980, so presumably would have obtained coal from elsewhere for my chosen period of April 1974. Regards Matt

Gents, Thank you for the insights. I see from the Flickr search for 'Stevenston Haverton' also produces the absolute monster that was 47 077 North Star, a western region namer of all things well outside of if it's normal patch. I spent many hours riding behind North Star as 47 840 in later years. So I think this would allow me to get away with running 47 254 (my personal favourite spoon, 47 806 in later years). "47077 seen at Hexham working a train of pressure tanks possible the 6S35 07.25 Haverton Hill to Stevenston." Ian Cuthbertson Flickr I own 25 years of the 40's, but I've added Trans-Pennine Rail Routes to the shopping list. Regards Matt

Hi All, Recently picked up a copy of Working Time Table of Conditional train Services, from that well known auction website, for the Eastern Region (Section K) Dated 7th of May to 30th of September 1973. As part of my research for a possible model of Bog Junction Carlisle. So now I'm on the hunt for details on the following services; Down Workings: 6S32 - A Company Train with different timings MX MO, Wilton or Haverton Hill to Stevenson, Air Braked when running from Wilton. I'd love to know what this train was? 8M06 - MX, Z - Willowholme CEGB Sidings. Pretty self explanatory coal train, but I'd love to know from what pit? 8M65 - MX. No other insights into what this service was from the book. 6M65 - Pretty sure this joins the WCML (and as such did not pass through Bog Junction), listed as traveling via HLB, which I assume is the Engineers Line Refence (ELR) for the Holwell Branch. 7M56 - Different timings SX SO, listed as traveling via HLB, which I assume is the Engineers Line Refence (ELR) for the Holwell Branch. But this strikes me as being 'the long way round'. 8M57 - A Company Train TThO. Up Workings: 8E08 - WFO, but a Company Train TThSO. 8E09 - MX. No other insights into what this service was from the book. 8E63 - MX. Looks to be the return working of 8M06, although I cannot be sure. 8E23 - WO. No other insights into what this service was from the book. 6E42 - A Company Train with different timings SX SO, 08 08 Stevenston to Haverton Hill, with the SX listed as 'May also run to Wilton'. 8E14 - Different timings SX SO, listed as traveling via HLB SO, which I assume is the Engineers Line Refence (ELR) for the Holwell Branch. But this strikes me as being 'the long way round'. 0E00 - SO, indicated as being a Light Locomotive. As always, any insight gratefully received. Regards Matt EDIT #1: A scour of Flickr produced the following two images. "1655 resting at Frodingham on 8th September 1973 having worked the 8E63 coal train to Scunthorpe from Radyr" - gary cross. Carlisle seems a long way to go from Cardiff to Scunthorpe? I should learn to read. "1885 on 6E42 tanks at Nottingham Midland 22-8-1973" - Michael Barstow.

I'm far from an Expert on anything Southern or Steam, but Lyme Regis wasn't far from where I lived in Sidmouth. The flyover is likely just to avoid conflicts with the mainline to waterloo, even though the line was destined to be reduced to single track in later years. Axminster Change for Lyme Regis Regards Matt

My Hornbachjan 86/0 is in storage back in deepest darkest Devon, while I remain lodged in the grimmest part of 'up north'. But the Hornby 86 body still looks the part, not bad for a model 42 years old! Not sure what to do with it now I have a stable of 86/0's from Heljan. I do wonder when Heljan might revisit the 86/2's, the one I bought had the roof transplanted into a Lima 87, which promptly caused Hornby to produce an updated 87. Yes there is a recurring theme.

Lovely Shots Robert. No problem with AC Multiple Unit's from this quarter! Regards Matt

Thanks Bertie, I have a copy of Special Notice 3G myself, but I was very curious to know what the images were, having not been able to see them. There is actual footage of the Gangs at work in the BTF film Points and Aspects, with a Gentleman checking sheet 13 at about 23:21 on YouTube. Thanks for taking the time to re-upload. Regards Matt

@BR traction instructor Any chance these images could be reuploaded? Regards Matt

Well, In terms of mass, building a layout north of 5.967x10^30 Kg risks creating a Black Hole. But in all seriousness, there are significant variables to consider: Track to Scenery Ratio - In terms of Surface Area of the Baseboards. Type of Track - Set Track will be much faster to lay than setting out sweeping canted hand-built trackwork with prototypical transition curves. Type of Scenery - Large fields and Hillsides are likely quicker than building rows and rows of terraces in a large city scene. Type of Trains - Ready to Run, Kit Built? Period Modelled - Availability of Kits/ Ready To Run etc. You'll probably be good modelling within living memory, but getting into early pre-grouping or areas of specialist interest, a different matter. Talent - Where do you think your skills lay. Obviously this ignores a more curative approach where much modelling may be outsourced or directly purchased. Level of Fidelity - Quality of the modelling aimed for overall. For instance, aiming for a fine scale approach is likely an exponent to all of the above, as a function of one's talent. I'm sure more can add to this list. Regards Matt

Never an issue. Interestingly, on the opposite bank of the Caldew (left hand side of both images containing the Kentmere Factory) are a couple of sidings for the Metal Box Co (2nd Image with the VDA Van), accessed from the Up Through Goods Lines just before Rome Street Junction (Bog Junction would be next). The Packaging industry seems to be big in Carlisle during this period, as there is a second set of sidings indicated for the Metal Box Co on the Up Newcastle just after Petteril Bridge Junction, at least according to the diagrams in June 1973 Special Notice 3G (Carlisle Signal Box Stages 9, 10 and 11). A copy of which can be found on The Signalling Record Society website here: British Railways London Midland Region Signalling Notices Digital Archive In other news, I've been in contact with the Cumbrian Railways Association (CRA), and after some small difficulties getting their search engine to work, I've placed an order for some Digital Images. Image reference: PWR-C1172, Dated: XX011978, Description: "View SE over junction, MCR line in foreground, GTC to left". The small thumbnail on the webpage seems to suggest this as view from Currock Road Bridge (Apparently also referred to Bog Road Bridge in local vernacular), looking east along the lines to Newcastle and the WCML in 1978, which should be perfect. Image reference: PWR-C1735, Dated: XXXX1975, Description: "General view looking E from Currock Rd brdge over renewed junction to MCR passenger line overbridge in distance". I suspect the date here is incorrect, as the website thumbnail Looks to be the same image from Page 38 of Rail Centres: No.6 - Carlisle, Peter W. Robinson, Book Law Publications, 2004, Nottingham (ISBN 13: 9781901945164), which attributes the date to 24th of March 1973, showing the working being carried out to reinstate the Up and Down South Curve Goods line to Mayport. Image reference: 144d16, Dated: 14011973, Description: "BR Cl 47 1984 1M86 up T-C Xp diverted". No website thumbnail availible, but this sounds very interesting from the description. I've also been looking at some Images of the Overbridges for the Maryport and WCML, some of the images from the 50's and 60's show not much headroom, so I'm guessing for the Electrification work they had to lower the track bed by a few inches on Up and Down Through Goods lines. In fact, i think this image proves that Railway junction south of Carlisle Regards Matt

Thanks for those picture's GordonC From the bit's of Bog Junction I can make out, it looks like the OLE was 3x Mk3a headspans, with supports under the three bridges (WCML, Maryport and Currock). Interestingly Currock road bridge used to span 4 tracks from pictures in the 50's and 60's, but it doesn't look that High. I assume they re-modelled the bridge prior to erecting the OLE, adding a new stone built pillar over the old Canal Branch lines. As can be seen by the image of 45010. Regards Matt

Hi Lezzer3, Difficult to make out all the details from those three pictures, but I it looks to me as if two of them are taken from the eastern side of the River Caldew looking at the damage cause to the bridge after the wagon's passed through Rome Street junction and derailed on the tight curve just after. Bog Junction is just slightly further east. The layout is best shown here: Carlisle Trackplan 1974 But appreciated none the less, at least two of those images I'd not previously seen. Regards Matt

Hi All, I'm on the lookout for pictures and publications which may touch upon Bog Junction in Carlisle. Specifically, I'm looking for Photo's of the area between 24 of March 1973, and the removal of the OLE due to the Accident on the 2nd of May 1984. A photo of the area taken from the Currock Road bridge over the line, dated to 1996, is availible on Gordon Thomson's Flickr: Carlisle - Bog Junction 1996 I've found one photo on Page 38 of Rail Centres: No.6 - Carlisle, Peter W. Robinson, Book Law Publications, 2004, Nottingham (ISBN 13: 9781901945164). Any help greatly appreciated. Regards Matt

Wonderful shot, and from my preferred period too. Regards

Masokits masterbits item 10.08, BR Mk1 Coach Detailing. Kit provides a bunch of additional detailing, well worth it. Masokits also do a working Pullman gangway, which will work down to 3ft radius curves. Regards

Jon Thanks for your detailed information and reply, I've much clearer picture now as to how they were used. My working knowledge of freight is particularly woeful, as my areas of interest are generally Coaching stock and NPCCS. Regards

Morning all, Colleague has bought in two additional freight stock books today, one dating from 1923 (pictures below). Again, I would be grateful if anyone could explain how these were used, assuming they had a use outside of records. Regards