Rivercider

This photo of D818 at Exeter shows that platform 5 was already laid with flatbottom track on 5th August 1961 https://www.flickr.com/photos/andersley_images/6146524951/in/photolist-cy2GSb-an9xJ8-4JVX83-9uoaxY-b8Sdgk When were the totem style station signs, as seen behind the Western, changed to the newer BR style? cheers

Further to my previous comment about D6306 at Exeter St Davids, think it may be on one of the WR/SR exchange workings whereby Western and Southern crews worked between Exeter and Plymouth via the other Regions route. In Modern Locomotives Illustrated no.197 page 48, D6306 is seen at Cowley Bridge on one of those workings on 4th July 1961, and is showing the same disc code, there is another photo on page 56 of a similar working with D6304 and D6303 in August 1959 cheers

I would agree with D6306 at St Davids, it is photographed from platform 1 it is standing in platform 3 and that is a set of Southern stock by the look of it, waiting to go up to Exeter Central cheers

No exotic type 5 power here, instead we go back 30 years for more routine summer saturday action It is 10.40 in the morning at Newton Abbot 43035 leads a Western Region HST set away from Newton Abbot, my notes say it was headed for Paignton, 20/7/85 Another view looking west later that day at 13.14 45036 runs in to Newton Abbot on an unidentified up working cheers

The Hornby code R633 is for a Freightliner flat loaded with 3 x 20ft boxes, it was in production from 1967 - 1982 the livery of the boxes seems to have changed, early versions are as the middle one in the photo, in 1970 two versions seem to have been issued one in each style of livery, later issues are as the one on the right. I picked up a couple of single containers at a second hand stall at an exhibition earlier this year for 2 or 3 pounds each one of each livery though one box is numbered 05B71 not as per the photo, they are moulded in slightly different colours, the later version is lighter grey. cheers

Interesting story, well told, thank you. In the photo of the brake test are the blue chairs to mark the location of the uncoupling magnet? cheers

In the 1972 TOPS Pre-implementation survey there is a rudimentary diagram of the brick built block of cabins at West Depot, I dont think the room sizes are to scale, but probably dictated by the length of the description (ie 'supervisor' is longer than 'mess'!) Toilets / A.T.I. Centre / Yard Supervisor / Mess Room / Shunters Cabin / Store. Obviously West Depot yard is larger than Mortimore's Yard and has more facilities but the notes do give a clue to the room sizes as it mentioned that the A.T.I. office that was proposed to be used as the TOPS Office was approximately 15' x 15', presumably making all the rooms approx 15' deep. The survey recommended a Portakabin PK36 be supplied as the TOPS Office, though in the event it never was. cheers

Hi Paul, thanks for the comments about the 1980s freight thread. I did not take any colour photos of VGAs that day, so they are the best efforts I have. I do remember that the unloading and loading going on that day was impressively quick. Also when the Showerings traffic was loaded they needed to secure the load as the van was not full, they used sheets of plywood that had presumably already arrived as packing. When they needed a sheet to stand vertically against the load they found it did not fit due to the roof profile of the VGA, so they lay they sheet down flat on the VGA floor with a corner of the sheet overhanging outside the van, then dropped the forklift blades down on it like a guillotine to chop the corner off the plywood sheet to make it fit! cheers

What was 2C25 (assuming the headcode is correct)? Sometimes loco and coaches sets worked a morning Newton Abbot - Paignton - Newton Abbot shuttle before a long distance working. Could this be an early morning shot? cheers

That looks like an Ince & Elton service. The regular headcode for fertilizer from Ince & Elton to the Western Region was 6V35, it could run to either Carmarthen, Bridgwater or Truro. I believe the full load for this service was normally 14 palvans with portions for Lapford, Plymouth Friary and Truro. The 1987 freight train loads book gives a maximum load for Ince - Truro for a class 47 of 1170t assisted by not less than a Class 45 between Newton Abbot and Plymouth and maximum load beyond Plymouth for a class 47 of 870t, (after the Plymouth portion had been detached) edit - what was the Lapford portion normally 3 or 4 palvans? That would leave 10 or 11 to be hauled over the South Devon banks (about 80t each?) cheers

On that date it was the 'Skirl O' the PIpes 2' Railtour, which as you say was booked for a 31/37 combination from Bristol Temple Meads. I had been on the train, but go off at Bristol ( where 37186 and 37268 were replaced) (edit - the train went north on 6/5/83, and returned on 8/5/83 - it must have been very late as it was booked 23.12-23.14 at Newton Abbot on the return) cheers

For a bit more variety here are two more photos of scrap traffic from the 1980s, one a class 40, the other a class 46 40084 pops out from under Warrington Bank Quay with 16t minerals of scrap, 23/3/82 One photo already posted on another thread, a class 46 in South Wales 46049 working 6C43 Severn Tunnel Junction - Llandeilo Junction passes Gaer Junction in Newport, the front portion of the train is 16t minerals of tin can offcuts for Llanelli Nevill's Dock, 25/1/82 cheers

On the Western Region they would usually have been in separate trains on weekend ballast sites, but may have been seen together on transit moves during the week. Here is a mixed set at Litchfield, on the Midland Region, not a location I know well, so don't know if this was regular. Litchfield Trent Valley, 25278, catfish, dogfish, sealion, 7 mermaids, three turbots, 17/6/86 cheers

I don't remember 31s on steel in South Wales much, I think is the only one I photograped. My notes don't say so but I can now guess it was coil for the BSC Tinplate Works at Ebbw Vale. I took this next photo, at the end of the film, later the same day, 37233 is held on the Up Relief at Llanwern West waiting acceptance into the BSC steel works 31304 passes by now heading east towards Severn Tunnel Junction with what may be the return working, 10/2/82 If they are VCAs they will be loaded with tinplate for Metal Box at Worcester or Wisbeach, with empty coil carriers on the rear. cheers

I would suspect that if they were short of a class 60 for one or two round trips it was easier to leave the set of 24 intact. The sets are formed of inner wagons with a rotary coupler at each end and two outer wagons each with normal drawgear at one end. So to reduce a set by four you have to cut them out of the middle of the set, not off the end. You then have four spare wagons stood without normal buffers at each end, which are difficult to move without an adapter wagon, until they are added back into the set. cheers

Good spot Paul, among your photos PR8212 and PR8245 are taken at Mossend and your caption states they were working Newton Abbot - Mossend. Paul Shannons book 'Rail freight since 1968 - Wagonload' has lists of Speedlink traffic in 1990-91 which includes Newton Abbot - Mossend, and Warrington (possibly Crosfields?) edit - and in 'The Freight only Yearbook' No.1 by Rhodes and Shannon there is a photo taken at Teignbridge in 1989, 37670 hauls a PBA for Mossend, two empty PGAs to detach at Teignbridge and a ferry van for Dover, cheers

Much of the metals traffic in South Wales was worked by classes 37, 47, and 56 in the early 1980s but other classes of loco also worked steel traffic as seen here Passing East Usk Junction heading west is 31304 with three wagons of coil loaded 'eye to sky', going in the other way are two light engines, on the up main 47283 is for the Severn Tunnel Junction direction, and 37162 is on the up relief going to Llanwern, 10/2/82 cheers

Marvellous! I wonder if we are seeing three minis in a row as they have been deliberately loaded together, would you get five of them on a motorail wagon? That might be important if the train was fully booked, it would help to make use of all available space. cheers

I enjoyed the show today Richard, it was good to see Acacia Avenue again, looking good with added Brutes, Perhaps your next project could be Aardvark Assembly Sidings, that would get top billing! cheers

Back to the 1980s I would imagine you could find any class of loco hauling scrap at times. Here is a pair of 20s heading north at Chesterfield with scrap in 16t mins, 20188 and 20186 head through Chesterfield with scrap for Deepcar, 16/9/81 cheers

The change over to separate services for flask traffic generally was in the early 1980s, probably about 1981. Taking Bridgwater as an example, I have a photo of a flask arriving on an ordinary service in september 1980, and another photo from june 1982 of 6V52 from Sellafield which was the special service for flasks. Of course in certain parts of the network if all other traffic had dwindled away the flask would have had its own train anyway cheers

The 21.45 Bristol - Southampton was always a short train, a coach or two and a van or two. It returned as a 02.45 Southampton - Bristol parcels service. Here it is at Southampton with 2 coaches and a van https://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/5714832967/in/photolist-611iFL-sXwACL-qyKMD4-64pmGq-daWA2x-dabg94-dgUheT-d1uB9q-cZNb5J-dosF5p-d9iQVW-dquy5H-d7Axcj-d7AAPm-e6wLTL-bpadhW-9H11JT-9J95RY-bxvoyk-bnoZzY-8qMAeH-bAjgCP-bjAvnJ-ovdpdK-e5wCMb-du6m2h-cSLqss-dBipFq-dsG5fz-rabUfg-r8PwNe-rpVVkK-tANsph cheers

That level of train service sounds about right, by the late1970s for example there were often 3 or 4 trip moves a day between Kingsland Road and Hallen Marsh, traffic to or from ICI Severnside (fertilizer), Avonmouth (Rowntrees), PBA (tanks, and sometimes coal) might all be worked separately. These would be in addition to the timetabled services. Also Severn Tunnel Juncion would occasionally send over an extra service if one of the booked ones had been full. Regarding the afternoon out and back working, 'Rail Centres Bristol' by Colin Maggs states that Stoke Gifford Yards closed in October 1971, I think that the Patchway Chord line opened at the same time, this enabled trains from South Wales to run direct to Avonmouth without calling at Stoke to reverse, When thinking of staffing levels, I had forgotten about the carriage and wagon examiner, would you have one full time? Or perhaps, more likely, one of the area mobile men might call at certain times of the day, wagons would need examining before outwards trains departed especially if they were passing through the Severn Tunnel. The mobile C&W man must have had a van of some sort, though I don't remember what, cheers

Those 4 wheel Tex Tanks (as we called them) were from the PBA and ran two or three times a week. Shirehampton received trains of bogie tanks from one of the Milford Haven refineries when I knew it, they went back discharged via Clifton Down to East Depot to run round, then up Filton bank to South Wales, cheers

I have a few thoughts about the yard working. The yard would only be staffed during the hours the box is open. How many would be based there I wonder? As well as the guard with each trip loco Mortimores Yard might also send out travelling shunter if the work was complicated, the 03 pilot might also need a travelling shunter to help on the Hotwells Branch. In 1978 when I went into Bristol TOPS as well as the shunting staff there were still a few commercial freight staff in the area, one at Hallen Marsh who visited locations at Avonmouth, one at Wapping Wharf and at least one mobile man who would visit Filton CCD and Bath Westmorland, I think they did wagon labelling, TOPS numbertaking, possibly sheeting or securing wagons, and liaison with customers. If it was busy enough there may have been a chargeman or possibly a grade 'A' supervisor to co-ordinate it all. So the staff might comprise 1 x chargeman, 08.00-16.00 SX 3 x shunter, (1 each 05,45-13.45 13.30-21.30 and a mobile man 08.00-16.00.) SX 2 x shunter, 05.45-13.45 SO 1 x commercial, 09.00-17.00. SX This staffing level would dramatically drop over the next few years though! As regards wagon stabling, as you say it might vary a lot. A van or two of bagged clay, or a wagon of steel plate left over the weekend would be possible, though I doubt any loaded vans from Frys would be left there! The TOPS system for wagon ordering should have meant that large numbers of empties were not hanging about, but there were variations. Most vans and opens were in an unassigned common user pool. For a specific one off consignment empties would be ordered using TOPS. Say Westinghouse wanted four vb opens and two turned up would you send them to Westinghouse straight away, or wait a day for the others then send all four together? For firms with regular outward loading the local freight rolling stock clerk would make a TOPS input each afternoon requesting wagons for future loadings which might be set at say 3 a day so there should always be empties in the pipeline. Depending on how far the empties had to travel you may get anything between 0 - 6 turning up on a specific day. Holms Sand and Gravel may well have a pool each of the hoppers, tipplers and sand tipplers specifically assigned to Pooles Wharf, if there was not capacity in their sidings to hold all the empties it is possible a few spares would have to be kept at the yard. What is your train service like, do you have a morning arrival of rough marshalled traffic to be sorted out for each local yard? If you have a late afternoon clearance of outwards traffic and it was a full load then may be some empties would be left off for tomorrow. Then there is always the possibility a crippled wagon or two may have to be knocked out to wait for the C&W moblie gang to attend before the wagons are fit to go forward. cheers