Poor Old Bruce

I would suggest that, rather than a through portion to Stratford, it was a later train from Leamington to Stratford which necessitated hanging about for some time.

Many years ago I bought a 2.5 inch map of Derby from the series in the blue covers. It showed the new A38 which was built in the 1970s but not a signifcant housing estate built in the 1950s. To be fair, it did state that the general date was of a particular date (can't remember what off hand) with major road updates to 1970-something. Some of the older maps which could be useful to such as us for researching track layouts do have to be taken with a pinch of salt as the odd crossover could get missed out. Also remember that railway signalling diagrams are just what they say on the box. They do not need to include every siding.

A very erudite contribution from 'Belgian' but you forgot that the Midland ran from Leicester via Bedford and Hitchin to run over the Great Northern into Kings Cross before the opening of the London Extension from Bedford to St. Pancras.

The comparison between B1s and Black 5s is also subjective, Colwick men apparently didn't take well to 8Fs replacing their 04s.

If that was the case, why has it been said that, size for size, the midland Line Jubilees were among the hardest worked locomotives on the system? Even in LMS days Jubilees were the biggest locomotives allowed on the Midland until the first of the rebuilt Jubilees were sent to Holbeck, the parallel boilerd Scots being too heavy.

I have also read that the civil engineer refused to countenance the S&DJR 2-8-0 on a 'regular' basis. I'm guesseing here but it could have been that the trail trains were subject to speed restrictions over some bridges. Regading loop lengths, it has been said that the Midland had four tracks all the way from London to Leeds (not necessarliy side-by-side for the whole distance) so that may not have been a consideration. Some writers suggest that the problem with the GCR 4-6-0s was inadequate draughting for the fire, something which the GWR had sorted out. There never was a magic formula for steam loco design, even in BR days there was still a 'suck it and see' element.

I know there were two incidents which involved Fruit D vans where one parked itself at the side of the track and the other ended up in an orchard. In both cases the train had divided and the crews just coupled up again and carried on, the errant vans only being noticed in daylight.

Adding the makers in 4mm: SR CCT from Wrenn. SR Van C from Hornby. LMS Stove R from Hornby Magazine (with reservations about the underframe) or Comet Kit. BR BG and GUV from Bachmann. LMS BG from Bachmann or Hornby. Fruit D from Dapol. The next-to-last one I am unsure about could be substituted by another LMS 50ft BG. I am not fully au-fait with coaching stock kits so others may be available.

That sixth vehicle looks to me like one of the LMS 6-wheel Stores Vans (ex Fish) as painted in olive green. (Edit) Available as a kit from Chivers.

I've recently taken down last year's 'Steam World' calendar. The centre spread photo is a parcels train on the Copy Pit line in 1964. It shows a Black Five (the caption says it's an 8F but it ain't!) hauling: SR CCT which may be dirty green LMS Stove R in dirty maroon SR Van C in dirt BR Mk1 BG in clean Blue and Grey BR GUV in maroon Possibly a Fruit D but difficult to identify due to drifting steam LMS 50ft BG in maroon SE Van C in dirt Unsure. Possibly a GWR BG in maroon BR GUV Most of these available RTR in 4mm

I have used Dapol and Hornby Pugs for shunting and found them quite easy to control. My normal test is to stop about 10-15mm short of the wagons and then approach so that the hook of the hook-and-bar coupling drops over the bar and stopping before the bars make contact. My layout uses AMR hand held controllers. A Hornby tender drive 8F failed miserably and had to go.

Probably not in traffic. They would most likely have had Mansell wheels.

Right. I understand the question now. I can't remembrer where (or find it again for that matter) but I am sure I have seen a picture somewhere of an engineering prototype model WITH coal rails.

The coal rails on Bachmann's Crab tenders were removable.

Well it's got plywood sides but the roof profile's wrong. Looks more LMS D2103 to me.

Er... If anyone is still wondering, they refer to Locomotives, Carriages and Wagons. The C1, C3 etc refers to the respective vehicle loading gauge to which the vehicle were built. I believe they are built to kinematic envelopes nowadays.

Another odd one seen at Derby in the winter of 1963 was a Peak coming in off the West Road with an Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0 coupled inside, presumably for heating.

I must have missed this thread at the time but such a pairing occurred on an enthusiast special in March 1963 when 72008 worked from Leeds(?) to Tyseley (I got on at Derby), then piloted by 7929 Tyseley to Crewe via Wolverhampton, Wellington and Market Drayton to visit the works. 72008 then worked solo back to Derby via the North Staffs and back to its starting point

The heading does say "from the various pre-group scottish comapnies (sic) and later."

Interesting result of an interesting prototype. Good luck with the rest of the work.

(Pedant mode 'on' - purely in the interest of accuracy you understand) Surely all Fowler tenders were riveted Stuart. Just that a lot of them used countersunk rivets and several pounds of filler to give a flush effect which could be taken to 'look' like a welded job. (Pedant mode 'off')

It's probably been said many times before but isn't it sad to seen the state of some of these 'preserved' vehicles. At best they can only provide pattern for replicas if anyone has the time or rescources to bother.

Thanks Andy.

I'm intrigued by the second van. Any offers as to it's origin?

And didn't bend so easily