sulzer27jd

I believe it remains the case that worldwide there is not a recorded case of a domestic fire death in a sprinkler fitted building. It is not the case that glass will always fail. In fact, it is very common in a domestic house fire for glass to remain intact, or for at least one pain of double glazing to remain intact. This has led to very significant changes in operational procedures for the fire service over the last number of years as firefighters now have to contend with entering a far more dangerous compartment in comparison with one that has vented. The original source is actually not all that important. It simply did not cause this to turn from a routine domestic incident to a major disaster. Tower blocks will not be made safer by safety inspections of fridges. The comments about fire loading also miss the point, that incidents involving apartments in multi-storey blocks are - unfortunately - a daily occurrence yet do not lead to the sort of conflagration that was witnessed in London. Fire loading makes things difficult for firefighters, changes the way they tackle a blaze, but should not, under any circumstances lead to an internal compartment breach - that is spreading to another apartment.

That is the whole point. These buildings are designed so that you do not evacuate everyone, any time there is a fridge on fire.

That is correct. It is not unknown for fire to vent out of a window and jump floors, often missing the floor directly above but affecting the next one up. Fire loading, open/closed internal doors and double glazing can all be factors in fire growth but must be considered as routine (if fire can ever be described as such) for firefighters. What would not be expected, or planned for is that any flame coming out of a window setting light to the entire external surfacing of the block.

I am not suggesting not using what is, after all, people's houses. I am merely making the point that whilst some are advocating waiting for reports to be written, that is not an option if you want to sleep comfortably in your own home.

The actual source of the fire, is in this case, all but irrelevant. No matter what cause, or where it started, it should have remained a domestic incident within a compartmentalised structure. The fire services deal with this on a daily basis. What needs to be the focus of attention is why, given a simple external breach, the whole tower block became involved. I think it is safe to assume that those advocating letting the experts investigate and write a report have to neither live in a multi-storey block nor respond to fire incidents in such premises. We have seen, following such events as a helicopter crash, whole fleets being grounded. I would expect (and it may be happening) that building inspectors are out and about, checking blocks across the UK and where there is any doubt, start the process of getting similar cladding stripped off.

It is not speculation to say that whatever caused the fire in one of the apartments, did not itself cause that disaster. High rise flats are, by design, relatively safe in relation to fire spread. The fire services have well-developed procedures for dealing with incidents in this type of property, which are, in keeping with the construction design, intended to be deployed from the inside of the building. What has shocked everyone is how this fire developed in such a rapid and unexpected manner. The number one imperative is that the construction/retrofit be investigated and any immediate findings used to adapt emergency procedures.

Dave the best source for track plans (with certain caveats regarding absolute accuracy) is the National Library of Scotland. They have online OS mapping for Scotland, Wales and England, with Scotland and England having highly detailed 25 inch OS maps from various eras. Are you looking for something in the north east area? Or looking for a particular type of track plan? If it's the latter, I'm sure the collective knowledge on this site can point you to suitable prototype locations. If it is something in the north east, give me a PM as I may be able to help. John

I guess it depends on what you are looking for and in what era. Insch was double track throughout, with single ended lay-by sidings to either side of the station, four road yard, with full goods facilities. It also has a very distinctive skewed level crossing. I rather suspect that Insch is not what you are seeking, however, the GNoS does offer a wider range of modelling options than most people give it credit for. John

The NBRSG forum is very quiet. It is of limited use for information.

Thanks, Stovepipe, that seems to fit with what I have found though a search of photographs. I am probably not surprised at the date for the doors being removed, but perhaps more so by the fact that the small yellow panel was reinstated rather than the full yellow end. There is always something new to learn!

Can anyone confirm a date when the connecting doors on class 26's started to get sealed up? I have a Heljan in small yellow panel livery, with no doors on the nose. I had assumed that this was inaccurate and that I would need to deal with this myself. However, I have found a photograph of D5326 taken in July 1967, in this livery, but with no visible signs of the doors, i.e. no lines or hinges. This got me wondering about when the decision was taken to not only not use them, but to remove them completely and how that related to the start of the full yellow end. Any info would be appreciated. John

I prefer the last photo, with the blue building removed. For me, the real test of a scene is if it holds your interest without stock or movement. Having been to Cuba, I must say that you have captured the feel very well.

The tram fiasco was a previous Edinburgh City Council project. I agree that the current model is far from ideal, but that is significantly due to the method used to divide up what was British Rail and privatise it. It should also be borne in mind that the systemic issues around rail stem from the fractured franchise system, which is a reserved matter. The point I was making was that I prefer to have a Government that is pro-rail, rather than anti. After all, this has given us the Airdrie-Bathgate line, the Alloa link, the Waverly Route, the reinstatement of Laurencekirk station, the rebuilding of Glasgow Queen Street, the Edinburgh Glasgow Improvement Project, the start of long overdue improvements between Aberdeen and Inverness, improved disabled access to many stations and numerous other service improvements. It is very easy to take a cheap shot for political purposes, but when it comes down to it I would take this pro-rail Government over any of the alternatives.

Is that not the point of having an evaluation process for projects?

Actually, the report will need to comply with TS guidance on evaluation of projects. https://www.transport.gov.scot/media/11093/transport-research-rail-evaluation-rail-evaluation-guidance-2015-version-final-pdf-may-2015.pdf I think, overall, I prefer the Scottish Governments supportive stance on rail travel to some of the current alternatives.

Mondays excepted and Saturdays excepted, indicating the vehicle will not run on this day. The opposite would be MO and SO, being Mondays and Saturdays only.

This thread seems to have turned into the Daily Mail.

What a great image, it just exudes atmosphere. Some great details too,.

Can we agree that if you don't take cheap shots at my country, I won't take any at yours? Any people wonder why we want to leave!

This might even be considered an operational hazard of running a railway. Almost certainly a result of one of those laws we often quote, which will determine that if something is to go wrong it not only will do so but will do it at the most inconvenient time and location. There have been a number of issues with Scotrail, but I suspect nothing that might normally even threaten a franchise, let alone the more dramatic alternatives being put forward. The current Scottish Government have a very positive track record with expanding the passenger industry and for most people, rail provides a reasonable level of service. I suspect that many of our southern based friends reading this thread will not fully appreciate the politics that underlie the howling from politicians and the media. This issue had nothing to do with railways and had nothing to do with Scotrail, it is simply another opportunity for those who are serial failures at election time to spout forth. Unfortunately, they know they do not need to try and back up any points they make with facts as the servile media will print any old guff as long as it suits their master's agenda. Filtering through this daily diatribe of lies is becoming a national past-time.

This shows how the story is being fed to people. 1option is a normal part of the franchise; 2 is the new option that allows a public service bidder And 3 requires full independence. Option 2 is becoming a realistic possibility. But If course the truth won't stop the rabid dogs attacking.

I think you will find it was the Scottish Government making the proposal, although I wouldn't be surprised if that was a straight lift from the BBC, who seem to specialise in snide comments. If anyone wishes to actually check, the SNP have had the policy of running the rail system as a public service, rather than for private profit, for many years. There was a previous attempt to have a staff bid put forward to run Scotrail, but that came to little as the three main unions would not co-operate. As for nationalisation (in any guise) being a Labour policy, I suppose all the years that they were in power and did nothing are indeed best forgotten. Different opinions are of free to be held, but crude attempts at political attacks are always seem for what they are, whether they come from desperate opposition politicians, their media lackies or other ill-informed sources.

These look good Bill, might this process accelerate the GNSR wagons? Thanks John

Have the 4mm NBR coaches ever been brought to the marketplace? And if so by whom? I cannot seem to find any of the suppliers listing them. Cheers

Another piece to the puzzle however.