The Black Hat

What Im wondering is have changes been made to the model or are they coming DCC fitted. For those wanting to fit sound, some of the original ones were tricky to fit once you start lifting the body off... so I was wondering if they were the same but expect them to be so.

143 colour of the yellow again looks spot on. It was not the same as the Tyne and Wear livery that used 'Canary' yellow from somewhere... Think the difference between 143 and 144 is essentially batch orders... there's very few differences between the two.

It can make them more affordable if in real terms the price has not gone up as much. I think these retailed before about the £65 mark, which adjusting for prices in the years since these have been done and its been a while... I'd say the chances are that these could have been more expensive. Yes I know the rake total is more expensive, but its clearly designed to sit below the £500 target and in comparison with other stock such as Mk. 2s for DRS, standard release Mk '2s the price of a rake is similar. The price inflation of something like a standard Mk. 1 in the Bachmann range is probably greater than the auto-ballaster, but Bachmann are clearly able to generate profits from this. It would be interesting to gauge reactions from the idea that having a Collectors Club allows Bachmann to do de facto direct sales and thus use its range here to again gain income. Personally, I have nothing against it, in fact I think its positive for Bachmann but would those same people decry Hornby for direct sales on their own website? A lot of it is presentation, but regardless, the Autoballasters are looking good... just need to rob a bank now...

no sound fitted option then? To be honest price is on par with the Bachmann 158 and the detail these include is just as good. Price has been similar for them in other runs and once gone has seen price exceed this kind of level...

Normally Id be one to watch price and be prepared to make comments as such given how some items have seen significant rises. However, given how much these were retailing before, plus the likely demand for this type of wagon I think the price itself is actually below what you would have to pay if it were released on the market and people made aware of their release.

Missed a trick not doing more. Northern Blue and Purple would have been a good choice, but cant help wonder if more are coming, given why do a production run for just one model? Get the feeling this was tagged with the other run of Express 158s...

Am I seeing the Realtrack 143/144 breaking cover under the EFE range? Did Realtrack get other models made at the time so that they can then do a few liveries of their own on the same production run. Would be an inspired bit of creative working if that was to be the case...

Is the 143/144 the Realtrack Model joining the EFE range?

While the station roof remains the main focal point of the station area, the problem with building William Bell's design is that I am very conscious of the fact that when the roof is in place you won't actually see much of the station itself in use. In ways it becomes a pity, as the activity there is the reason for the layout itself - trains coming and using the station, some terminating and standing. The plan always was to try and build the roof in the central span with areas that lift out. Allowing people to look inside and at least see some parts of the station with the trains moving. Furhter parts in the retaining wall section on the area closest to the viewers also have small parts cut out, but these are rather small as they do have to fit between the spans of the roof and these are just 7cm apart. Photos below show the various parts of the roof being measured. These are then held together using the tension in the structure when its all fixed and established. I was thinking slots might be needed into it at the top of the columns to have the spans fit in but its holding its own as things stand. Photo above of the roof being fitted out with tiling and measured to suit where the sections will be lifted. If you look carefully you can see where two spans meet so that the whole roof fits together but needs 2 spans next to each other to give the roof its shape and strength. Coaches nearby also show some of the work being done on some stock - including yet another fictitious rake, being the New North Eastern Railway Directors set and the WCRC set being worked on. More photos of the roof being put together. WIth the frame of a span in place and the tiles, cross spans under the glass and the glass work all still to add. There should be more photos coming soon where the roof on this section is brought up to date! Thanks.

Maybe, but the current climate has lots of competition and the diesel scene has the DCC: The Next Gen touch to it with all the classes, having full control of sound and lights, which is what they should have done for in the first place rather than wire in stupid switches under the engine for controlling lights. But with other companies taking on the workhorses that Bachmann like to make part of their stable range if it came to a choice between 66 and 55, then I think Bachmann would go for 66 to keep that market share alive. The same DCC:TNG sound and lights applies to steam which means a whole load of steam is now open for retooling again - but the lead times are longer and it takes more planning. I can see Bachmann annoucing more of what they already have as they catch up with things already announced, or from things recently in production. So the WD's, V2s, might make the scene, or more of them as a follow up. J72s too maybe. Perhaps, just perhaps, the Turbostar will finally arrive... and more class 158s.

I can see Bachmann defending against competition and doing more to follow on from the release of the 37 and 47.... something maybe taking a GM power unit....

Not one of those Transpennine units then to go with the Loco hauled sets. Heres one seen at York:

Time for an update, which has become long overdue. Work on the layout has been slowly progressing. With the building taking quite some time there have been occasions when I simply have lost 'mo-jo'. Matters where not helped when the local politics returned to the scene. Having been invited to be in a local club, I joined for a while with the hope that they were looking to improve and develop. Sadly, this was not the case and it was being run by a select few with minimal input from others. I have done various things in voluntary organisations, management at work and know things that needed to be done, but with ideas not being taken on, me and several since others have left. This was still some ago, about a year or more. One comment was received when seeing someone recently that when offering the layout when finished, it was being quickly ruled out by being too large. Given I know that as an organiser you can fit things around the space available, if you want something you can make it fit. I also know that other layouts that have been have been bigger in terms of space overall have been. While Briganton might be deeper than some, I know if it was there it would be well received and the home venue is something all of us look forward to doing this for. I felt very disappointed to think it might not be there but know it would be well received at other shows nearby. Others have said that such reasons are because I and others have left, but overall I hope they can be successful and enjoy their hobby in the way they would like to. Still, it made me step back from having the urgency of having to complete the model and with changes with work also made me spend less time on it. It's funny how your desire to build and enjoy the hobby shared with others can take a knock to confidence when others don't welcome someone's genuine desire to help out. Having taken a bit of time away and quietly working on it when chance allows speaking to others brought back more confidence and a wider appreciation of others happily wanting to know about it and say they look forward to seeing it at an exhibition. Thankfully too, others have known that I could help where I can and I have been approached for another build project with another organisation nearby. More on that at another time. It also doesn't help when you get focused on another project within the overall build, but this time was stock and the creation of the WCRC rake proper. So a few coaches were bought and a repaint of a set started so that the WCRC engines in the collection - which include 46115 Scots Guardsman, 45699 Galatea, 35018 British India Line and 5972 Olton Hall - will all have a proper rake to go with them. Thats before you add all the engines on the WCRC safety case. So, having taken a bit of a while, attention recently has returned to the layout proper. Build work has been continuing on the roof, but finally with much of the tiling, glasswork and columns done, more of the roof is up and the rest should be following soon. Its just leaves one long span over the board for platforms 5 and 6 to fix in place, with the central span over the centre complete now and done so it can be lifted out. I shall try to update with more photos soon, but sorry for the break in updates. Thanks to those following the thread and for those browsing with interest.

All of that though looks to be on the old chassis with the DCC socket in the engine, so no link to the tender. Sound fitting into the tender is a lot easier, but not if the wiring for the socket isnt there.

Anyone got specifics on the A4's that are coming: Are they the current tooling with a refresh and still have DCC? Just with a Dublo label, or are they a new model as the top is listed as diecast. The Hattons directory is listing these as that, so presume they are still on the old chassis with diecast top just with some different labelling. Pity that the DCC socket isnt a standard fit into the tender, as that would allow easier conversion to sound. But does anyone know exactly what they are?

There ain't much S&D at all..... S&DJR on the other hand....

As much as the Dublo range is nice, I do wonder how big the rose tinted glass sector of the market is and looking at it, most of these are standard range items, just in a different box. Some of the other range look to be overdue change, the 8F being an open goal for a competitor to be replacing it, especially given what Hornby is charging for this release. Other things see the deft hand of Simon swinging the range back south or big express engines and I also wonder how much of a hit that will take to the range. The main thing I take from this is that pressure on wanted, DCC ready or fitted items in the right livery will see their second hand values increase to match the price rise for new models.

EWS Mk. 2s are a nice move. I think I might have suspected them, but perhaps from elsewhere. However, think Hornby are yet again missing a trick. They never match the class 91s and HST stock together for anywhere on ECML, so neither range compliments each other. Yes I get the fact that BR liveries can go nationwide and thus need doing to cater for that market too, but GNER for East Coast surely must have been a winner following on from 91. Personally, I think the HST is a massive target for someone else to walk in.

Id like that in the Regional Railways branding.... even if didn't run in the North East. It will now...

To be honest Brian, Its probably my perception at fault. I have gone and done the top 10 for each engine class as shown in the category list, so looked at that section an awful lot more, but when looking in the top to bottom list, I just felt that stock, such as NER stuff, Autocoach, Milk Wagons. LNWR wagons, plus more... all showed up higher than before. You might be explaining that given things grouped together for voting, I was just adding to a post earlier, but added that thought it looked that way. Certainly NER stock is polling higher compared to engine choices, which is good, but if overall items are down, you'd be right to know. Of course people could dial down into the numbers as I have done with engines but the latter is what most are interested in and what drive the market and with DCC The Next Generation coming, some models I think will appear that are not even on the poll at all... such as A4, King, Castle, Black 5...

Thanks Brian, To be honest it was the first thing that struck me in the poll this time, was the sheer amount of stock that was making its way to near the top, followed by the number of companies that did not list engines where as previously they did. The latter was noticed when going through the raw data that the poll leaves. Yes, it has its top 50, high, medium and low, but to see which regions and areas are getting the core votes when combined, my analysis afterwards points out where that is possible and happening. It also helps, that like the poll, taking the top 10 listings per area is an unbiased and simple way to arrive at the results. You literally just count them all up. Yes there are some things listed in the poll that change, but its also tricky to try and keep results consistent when one engines total could obscure the whole picture. For example, the B17/5 is listed in the poll as GE - perhaps for running on that region within the LNER. But it is a LNE Gresley design, ironically enough built in Darlington and then modified later. Adding that to GE would have skewed its results when it should be LNE, so I moved it and admitted it. As much as I am known for lobbying for NER stuff, I try to present this information and my interpretation of it as openly and as fairly as possible. As Brian says, there are numerous engines where the designer and labelling in the poll cross the boundary of pre-grouping and grouping. I have largely gone off what the poll has listed, even noting that some design favour LSWR totals but listed it all the same as the poll labelled them as such. Thanks to the data supplied by the poll underlying trends of areas popularity and the effect scene when engines are produced have been identified, but only when you apply a method such as the one I present to then get proof and evidence that backs up opinion and conjecture. In the past Southern pre-grouping companies have done well, but has some models have been done, just as with GE and now NER, the following ones don't always poll as strongly, although for GE there are some designs that do and NER has seen B16 and J21 lifted as a result. It just shows that once your past the grouping designs some of the pre-grouping areas don't have the core vote to match what's left to do for these areas, or in some cases don't have the power to lift themselves to be viable really at all. Again this is born out by the number of topics listed in the poll, but then also the vote score afterwards not lifting these to near the top. Some groups slowly plod away, such as GN areas, but as Brian says, there still needs to be consistency near the top and often some votes do change, especially when an engine is preserved and grabs some limelight on the preservation scene often seeing a corresponding rise in votes. This also shows that there is no need for the 'balanced poll' idea that Brian mentions as some topics just wont attract enough support anyway, so the numbers stand as they are. The other issue could even be the poll itself. Given that its done through forums, and has been supported by some magazines in the past, it might not always hit upon the entirely of those with an interest. Yes this is a factor in many votes and elections, but it could be a topic for discussion. Do all the people with all interests get captured given where its displayed. Lest be VERY clear. I am not criticising the poll, the team or format, but think that some results could be shown by the people inclined to vote given where its posted. I have no doubt at all that a class 185 would sell like hot cakes, indeed even a Voyager would be a unit to be done again. But looking at the data these barely register nor too does the amount of modern stock that's been done over the years as the privatisation scene and years before it have grown to become (in my opinion) a period that is now equal to the popular BR transition period that dominated the market 10-15 years ago. So, the choice of models being made going forwards will still rely on polling data, analysis such as mine or done more formally by companies and the shifting patterns in the market. Steam choices will still need to get from grouping to end of steam to realistically stand a chance of being made, although some surprises might creep in as the novelty section grows. Also, the current demand for modern models will be seen by sales made and as a result the future development will see choices yet that surprise us all, as much as meet market expectations. It all means that surmising all that into posts after the data is given is as hard as creating the poll itself, especially when you have tracked data, trends and ideas from this for years as I have tried. I am happy that NER polls well, that coaching stock looks more favourable given engines to haul them are made, but its also clear and expected that others will show passion for their areas and choice. Its no good saying this will sell, or that people need to buy engines to show they are popular and make more. If companies don't make the right ones in the first place, they waste resource and risk profits chasing the wrong topics and don't satisfy demand. That's why I also put forwards the view that some areas of the market have been saturated with choice and models made and only disruption to supply in recent years has seen this being overcome. I think the market has realised this hence the diversity seen at shows like Warley or on the websites for sales. It means further interest will be coming in the future and I will still try to help by reviewing as I have done before.

Quite the opposite. I have stated how I have added things up, based on the same ways I have been doing this for years. I also have gone back and checked on previous years on how things were listed and acknowledged it clearly and opening for the purpose of consistency. There just isnt the twisting things as you keep accusing me of and you yourself lobby and take down anyone who posts something other than your own little wishlist...

I will have posted my thoughts on it, but having looked at the market lately and having seen the scope of the current version, I am thinking that a new DCC Sound A4 from Hornby would be a very smart move.

Some interesting results from the poll this year. My thanks to Brian and the team for organising it, as well as Andy Y for hosting it here. The number of votes looks to have gone down in pervious years. My comparison of this to latter years show many of the classes looking to fall in popularity as a result, when actually there were just less votes counted. I have kept an eye on the various placings of positioning overall, using the same system I have used in previous years - which was to take the top 10 of placings for locomotives. This year that could have changed as there was a number of high entry votes for coaching stock. The one that stood out (making me happy) was the incredible rise in the request for NER stock. If this was done to go from NER to British Railways or NCB years I think they would sell like hot cakes. But then - I would. Once you adjust or take note of the various companies and how they line up in basic terms of popularity overall the picture looks very similar to other votes done in previous years. GE and NER still dominate massively in the Eastern region area even with some models having been made and thus the pattern falls to other choices to see if they can hold or make up ground. Midland region continues to be low polling. It looks as though some of the choices left have done so, but the poll itself does skew the results. As I go off a top 10 per area, some areas merely have more listings thus can gain votes. LSWR from what I can tell is the only one to have 10 listings available, so I would say that its popularity is inflated as a result as other less popular engines just push up the numbers. For the first time since the polls launch no Eastern pre-group company has 10 listings for locomotives. NER rockets up if you add the choice of stock to the listings, the same is said for GE if you add the Quad Art set but these fall under LNER. Also the B16 2 and 3 in previous years were listed as NER origin so I have added them to NER to keep comparisons right and the B17 streamlined version somehow gets listed as GE despite it being an LNE design to that was kept to LNER as it would distort GE. If your looking for a Top 10 of pregrouping the results come out as: 1. LSWR 2. GE 3. NER 4. GN 5. LBSCR 6. NBR 7. SECR 8. CR 9. LNWR 10. MR Also note, I have not done Western region areas as its hard for me to tell when pregrouping and grouping designs were done. Should LSWR not have as many listings I believe it would fall third behind GE, NER. The rise of GN is interesting as that is steady but perhaps a result of GE and NER having engines made and GN merely able to list its most popular engines still against those that remain, which I believe is the case. As always, designs that can get from late pregrouping into BR and industrial use will see the highest chance of models being done. What the poll does show though is that there must be a number of designs that were previously listed and are now done, a credit to the polls success. There are just not as many entries available for some areas as models have been made. The likelihood of this continuing I think will make this a trend that continues and so in the future I expect demand for some areas to be satisfied and those areas fall in terms of popularity meaning that others replace them. However, I think that is a medium to longer term trend. This also must be across the various regions, although some that lag behind will obviously be harder for companies to justify as made for sale so sadly these will be discounted. The poll still gets interesting results in this area, I as I have tracked the progress of this for ages now, however, there are some results that I do find perplexing and I will try to give my views on this later, as I have written this in my lunch break!

Joking aside, its interesting that the results have thrown up something I have noticed when out and about doing photography. Start asking people which areas they like most and like least and you end up seeing that the closest to home often is favourite with the area furthest away or geographically opposite scores least. This is all born out in the results on page 1, but interesting to see the results as the options list preferences from first to last.