Karhedron

That is a good question. I have a BLT and tha Dapol small prairies aer my staple motive power. Can these be converted?

Ah, thank you. I only have the main volume and not the appendix (maybe I should try and track down a copy). You are quite right. I did not realise from the dates that the first batch of K41s predated the shirtbutton emblem.

Steam at Swindon have got back to me with the following thumbnails. http://www.steampicturelibrary.com/passenger_brake_van_no_147_for_parcels_train/print/8053029.html http://www.steampicturelibrary.com/passenger_brake_van_no_109/print/8053031.html http://www.steampicturelibrary.com/passenger_brake_van_no_166/print/8053035.html http://www.steampicturelibrary.com/passenger_brake_van_no_95/print/8053037.html 147 is a K41 and is pictured in post-war Hawksworth livery. 109 is the same but seems to have a slightly simplified version of the livery with no brandings discernable. 166 is a K42 and is in chocolate livery. It looks nice but the branding is very route specific (124 would probably be a better alternative). 95 is a K42 in post-war livery and does not appear to have any route branding. If we assume chocolate and cream will be a popular livery then this might be a good one to model as one running number. I do not mind splashing out for higher resolution images if any look particularly useful.

Hi Dave, Do you mean the conversion kit work on bogie stock by removing the coupler from the bogie and then fitting the new pocket to the underside of the body? I have a fair number of B-set coaches and early-run collett coaches I would like to convert. Alternatively, can I get hold of the newer collett bogies which do include the NEM pockets? Have you ever done B-set bogies with NEM pockets?

Uncoupling only occurs when there is a bit of slack between vehicles. If there is tension (such as when a train is running), it is enough to prevent accidental uncoupling. Yes. The coupling attaches horizontally meaning you can simply lift a vehicle out of it's rake by hand without disturbing the others. Not sure how easy it is to uncouple manually without lifting the vehicles. Maybe a job for a cocktail stick or mini-scredriver but I have not tried that.

Hi Brian, Thanks for that. I have BRILL annual but it slipped my mind to look through it for full-brakes (although it is a great place for them). The KRM is a great resource and I have used it before. Their archive is quite well indexed so perhaps that is another good lined of enquiry. Regards, Matt

Just a note, I am pretty sure 98 would not have had a white roof, even when new. It would always have been grey.

Hi Ben, In both Chocolate & Cream and Crimson & Cream liveries, the branding was applied to the cream band between the windows. In both cases the lettering is in "old gold" shaded with black. It is worth noting that the shading shows up more than the lettering. The lettering on the plain chocolate examples should also be shaded with black although this is less obvious against the dark background. It is worth noting that there seems to have been a clear change in font between the "shirtbutton" examples and the post-war ones. The branding applied to the crimson and cream vehicles seems to be a in avery similar font tot he post-war GWR liveried examples (it might even be the same font). It looks like Gill Sans but I am not certain ofthis. Whilst using preserved vehicles as a guide is always risky, I think that lettering on preserved K42 98 looks accurate. It is worth noting the single lining at waist height. Based on the photos in Russell, this looks to be accurate for the post-war batch of K42s. Unlike the K41s which seem to have received full double-lining. http://www.flickr.co...ol-1222554@N20/ Another interesting vehicle in Harris is W130 which is another example to receive GWR/BR hybrid livery. The photograph does not show any sign of branding but the caption states it was branded "Return to Swindon". Swindon seem to have painted several full brakes in this hybrid livery in 1948/early49. Clearly trying to give chocolate and cream a bit of a swansong before the new corporate livery was introduced. Regards, Matt

1963, probably in Maroon by then (shame they don't have a thumbnail). There is a photo of it in 1953 on the cover of "Great Western Steam in Cornwall". It wears the same hybrid GWR/BR livery as K41 W195 in Russel. http://www.transportstore.com/images/content/books/large/4457/P8190025.JPG

I am pretty sure those are milk tankers. The only clay slurry tankers in service back then that I know of were the Bowaters ones and they had a bright blue livery. Also they had a fairly distinctive frame which meant the bodies of the tanks were fairly widely spaced when coupled. The tankers in that shot look fairly close together. A rake of Bowaters tankers can be seen here. http://www.flickr.com/photos/74009/6299983645/ I am not 100% certain but the tankers behind D602 look more like milk tankers to me.

Most of the Collett-era full-brake diagrams turned up on milk trains fairly frequently in BR days (possibly apart from the K38s). One regular was K41 W142 which was branded for the Penzance to Kensington milk train in the early 1950s (as was K40 W55).

I have finally got round to digging out part 2 of Russell which has some good photos of both K41s and K42s. K41 W195 in 1949 painted in hybrid GWR/BR livery. Branded "Paddington & Penzance and Paddington & Chester" 147 in 1945 in post-war Hawksworth livery. Branded "Swindon and Carmarthen" K42 124 as pictured previously plain chocolate with shirtbutton emblem 166 in same plain chocolate with shirtbutton emblem. Branded "To work 8.55 PM Paddington to Cardiff 1.48 PM Cardiff to Paddington" (looks nice but might be a bit route-specific ) 95 in post-war Hawksworth livery. No branding. W164 in crimson and cream. Branded "Return to Paddington"

Superb shot. I have been looking for a shot of a D600 on a milk train for ages. I was sure they would have worked on the milk trains just like the D800s but evidence has been slow in coming. Thanks Michael for posting! More than a few. D602 was fitted with boxes in 1964 so it has definitely done some mileage.

Sounds promising. Based on the date 273 should be painted in postwar Hawksworth livery. It is only 50p for a digital copy so may be worth a punt. I don't mind splashing out on a bit of research material. I guess we need to decide which diagram is being produced. Or does that depend on the evidence we are able to collate? Where is the "chicken and egg" smiley?

I have contacted the Great Western Trust, Steam musuem in Swindon and Ian Allen (who bought OPC some years ago). Hopefully they may have some images of K41s/2s that will be useful in this project. Ideally we would like a range of shots like the one I found of 124.

That is the correct livery for vehicles completed around this time. However the only photos I have seen of vehicles from this batch are in preservation. Hopefully somewhere along the line we will find some more definitive photos.

Part of the problem with a gloss finish is that reflections do no scale properly. Reflections from a 1:1 light source on a 1:76 model destroy the illusion we are trying to create of a looking at a real loco from 150 metres away instead of a model from 1 metre away. The effect is even more pronounced in N gauge which is why I tend to finish my kit-built models with matt varnish, no sheen at all. I have built kits with a gloss finish before and they just look wrong. Most RTR manufacturers seem to have settled on a satin sheen as a compromise and I think that is probably as shiny as it is wise to go. Any glossier and I will have to take my can of Testors to RTR stuff too.

OK, I am convinced. Go with the darker shade.

Hi Taz, Nice piece of detective work and it certainly fits the observed photos. If this is the case it means that it might be best to leave out lot 1604 and model the K42s without the rainstrip as it covers the majority of the vehicles for the majority of their working lives. The only downside with this is that it pushes back the effective introduction date from 1937 to 1940 making them unsuitable for pre-war layouts. I model post-war so this is not a problem for me but it might be a dilema for others.

I believe one or two K40s made it into the early 50s in hybrid brown livery but with BR(WR) style lettering. Not sure about any K41/42s. As always, the difficulty is proving it from a period when most photographers preffered to shoot express engines rather than "waste" the film on humble brake vehicles. Swindon took works shots of vehicles including that of 124 above. Does anyone know if this was done for every vehicle constructed or was it just certain specimen examples? Does an archive of these works shots survive anywhere as it would certainly answer some questions.

The comet website claims that some K42s were built in chocolate and cream and only 124 and 126 carried all-over chococlate. I have to admit I am sceptical about this claim as the photos we have found so far have not shown any chocolate and cream K42s from the 1937 or 1940 batches. My personal feeling is that it is probably only the 1945 batch that carried choc and cream from new and this would have been the post-war "Hawksworth" version of the livery as applied to 276 in preservation. I have yet to find a chcoclate and cream K42 in 1930s "shirtbutton" livery but I will keep looking. http://www.southdevonrailwayassociation.org/Coach-276.html

A agree, sheen, not gloss. Regarding the shade of grey for the roof, would it make sense to match the shade you have used for the class 22? They were painted around the same and I would guess to the same specifications.

Woohoo, I think I have just found what we are looking for. Here is a shot of K42 124 in all-over chocolate livery (originally posted by Chris Leigh). The photo is not dated but it looks ex-works so I suspect this shot is as-built in 1940.

Short and sweet. I model the post-war GWR so both diagrams are quite acceptable to me. That being so I will try to offer some unbiased advice. Dapol's experience seems to have been that the "shirtbutton" variant is the least popular of the GWR liveries. Being able to offer 2 variants of choc and cream livery (in addition to shirtbutton chocolate) seems to me to be a distinct advantage for the K41. Both diagrams received rail blue so although the K42s lasted longer in service it does not open up more livery variants. Modellers looks for some interesting NPCCS are more likely to base their choice on the liveries available rather than the exact date of withdrawal. I am sure a blue K41 will satisfy most modellers, even if they did not last as long as a blue K42. My gut feeling is that the more numerous K41 is a slightly better choice. Here is another suggestion though. The marginal difference in body profile is unlikely to be noticable in N gauge. The biggest visual difference between the 2 diagrams is the continuous rainstrip on the K42. Would it be possible to design this part of the model with a slide to accomodate both variants with a single tooling? I know this is technically possible but I do not know how it would affect costing. If it could be done, it might give the best of both worlds.

The NGS changed their plans a week after announcing the K45. After checking it was found that none of the Hawksworth BGs carried GWR livery in service, all were introduced in BR days. It was felt that producing a model that could legitimately carry true GWR colours would appeal to a wider range of modellers than one that was exclusively post-nationalisation. I do not know if it had an bearing but a good range of Hawksworth kits are available from Ultima/Etched Pixels. Whereas the K41/42 is not available in any form as far as I know.