Prof Klyzlr

...But AMJ, The color-wires shown on the OP's "9 pin JST" pic in-and-of-themselves don't follow DCC convention, which makes me leery that they are a "DCC decoder 9-pin JST compatible" loom... ...that the pics show the looms completely-removed from the loco (woth no obvious evidence of previously-soldered/unsweated wire ends), further shakes any confidence I might have had that the color coding can be trusted... ...The 4-wire loom arguably is the most "DCC logical", as the Black/Red (Track IN) and Orange/Grey (Motor Out) colors do make some sense in terms of providing "fundamental DCC decoder connectivity", (IE appears to follow a fundamental part of the NMRA DCC decoder wiring color spec) but that 4-pin Mini-Molex connector is not a NMRA-spec physical-format connector... ...and, given the GP15 has twin motors, only having a single pair of Orange/Grey "Motor Out" wires doesn't match what we know about the model, leading to the conclusion that "the wiring required to match the known model config =/= normal DCC wiring connections or color coding"... ...the previously-linked "O Gauge Railroading Forum" post seems to support this hypothesis, as it shows multiple pairs of Blue + Yellow being the "motor feedS", which matches the multiple Light-Blue/Yellow wires on the "9 pin JST" loom... In all, a rather "hard to discern out-of-context" collection of wire colors, which, if I was in the OPs shoes, (and I have an O2R MP GP15 salted away in the warehouse, so I guess I will be at some point in the future), would provoke me to bail on the looms and ex-factory PCBs altogether, and DIY the DCC-conversion wiring properly from the ground-up... (I maybe see a NixTrainz "Decoder Buddy" in the OP's future??? https://nixtrainz.com/ ) Happy Modelling, Aiming to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Mar, OK, first up, we need to clarify a starting position. Those shown in your pics (thankyou! :-) ) are certainly "plugs", but they are not "DCC Plugs". They do not match any known DCC-spec decoder connector. Now, that said, a quick Google gave this reference to the very-similar Atlas dual-motor GP9. While I'm not sure I'd advocate going "straight to series connection" without doing a lot of proper research first, the thread does give some important clues to the internal wire-color-coding (which, it must be noted, does NOT obey accepted NMRA DCC Internal wire color coding rules!) https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/wiring-an-atlas-o-gp-9-in-sequence Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear RMWebbers, I'm in the process of building my next exhibition layout, which is fundamentally reliant on Asym Braking with Lok Select (US outline) and an occasional V4 decoder. ( I standardised on Selects, but found myself a couple-short, and the V4s were going-cheap right when I needed them...) Literally using "common as mud" 1N4001 sillicon diodes, (No zeners, "High Spec", "Fast recover", or other excess $$$ options diodes here...) in 5-diode packs (4-in-series + 1-bypass config), with a bog-stock NCE Powercab FW1.65b + MiniPanel acting as a pseudo-"dumb timer/reverser", and "stop within 5mm of last-powered-axle crossing the gap" (using the "constant braking distance" CV set at absolute minimum, independent of the CV3/CV4 "Momentum"/Decel rates). is both reproducible, reliable, and confidence-inspiring... (exactly what an Exhibition layout demands...) Just a pity SoundTraxx don't support the NMRA-spec CV27 Asym Braking modes... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear RMWebbers, O/T, but in Australia, the snakes take their chances crossing the road as much as any other animal... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear RMwebbers, Liam, OK, you asked, I'll "lead with my chin"... - S scale = don't bother. Not enough actually-available US outline equipment choice to give free-reign to your desired modelling inspiration... (IE if you start with a given prototype inspiration that you really want to model, then you'll find the available range in S sadly lacking in range, and you will have to compromise the vision that you started-with... ...and that's a near-guaranteed recipe for disillusionment and stalling-out...) "S-Helper Service" used-to-be your "go to" option for "newcomer launchpad US outline S-scale model options", but they are no-longer, and while their SW1/SW7 switchers were awesome "base an entire layout around the one loco model" options, it does kinda limit "I wanna model XYZ prototype" freedom... :-( (If there was an EMD SW1500, more-modern era rollingstock, and track available in S SG, my fleet of HO switchers might well feel a little nervous, but there's no fear of this eventuating...) - Honourable mention : O scale = many of the same limitations as S scale listed above, only (arguably) worse as the pool of available US outline models is diluted between "O scale 3 rail" (Toy O gauge), "O scale 2 Rail" (the closest logical "upgrade/entry point" for a refuge "experienced modeller" from another scale, albeit also insanely poorly-served by the US manufs... and Atlas as the "best hope we've got" is letting the team down heavily... The modeller can't buy what isn't produced, thus not producing sales/revenue, thus prompting Atlas to say "no-one's buying, so no-one wants it"... self-sabotaging, self-forfilling prophecy if ever there was one...), or "Proto 48" (think "Scale7" only for US outline 1/4" O scale modelling. EVERYTHING needs adjusting just to be put on the track, NOTHING is newcomer-level available "out of box", and despite protestations to the contrary, actual practical experience proves sourcing "drop-in replacement wheelsets and bolsters" is darn-near impossible outside the continental USA... ...and worse if one happens to live on the underside of the planet...) NB I'm not bitter, but I do have a Proto-Nook's worth of Atlas O2R equipment that may well be looking for a new home in the near future, if I don't see some convincing evidence toot-sweet that US outline O2R is worth saving/promoting at exhibitions... (neither the manufs, nor the "inside sports" O scale modellers seem to give a singular iota about promoting their scale/gauge, or giving "newcomers" a serious chance to "get onboard"... ...and yet have the hide to whinge "...why don't people like O scale?") That said, If Atlas pulled-finger-out and got their excellent MP15 switcher, (or preferrably a SW1500) back in production, preferably with an upgrade centre-motor mech derived from their "awesome but unobtainium" SW7/SW9/SW1200RS switcher (Atlas, dammit, you make me weep....) then my fleet of HO SW1500s would absolutely have every right to feel very nervous... (again, I have zero fear that this might happen... I don't wish to be cynical, but I foresee no-changes in sight...) - N scale = if you're already comfy with it, your eyesight is good-enough, (and your age/stage is such that you do not foresee your sight failing rapidly in the near future), and the thing that you really want to model is "long snaking mainline trains winding thru high scenery-to-track-ratio scenes", then step-right-up and go for it. Get comfy with MicroTrains (both the offerings and the prices), and look to Intermountain, and take a long slow-roll thru Spookshow.net http://www.spookshow.net/trainstuff.html You'll find a reasonably range of modern (1990s onwards) and 1950s "1st generation diesels" models available, but if steam is your thing, then move-along... - HO scale = the world is virtually your oyster. Models of most eras (excepting maybe pre-1900s "early steam" 4-4-0s, think classic "cowboy western" trains) are commonly available, and many run well straight-out-of-box. You can start with almost any "I want to model Prototype RR XYZ in the nnnn Era" inspiration, and HO will likely have you covered with a suitable-style on model, if not the actual locomotive type/model the prototype uses. You won't be snaking full scale-mile-long freight trains around in your stated space (as N does and quite rightful enables the modeller to do, and does-so very well), but you will enjoy much less-finicky running (larger pickup/contact areas, more heft), space to do onboard sound some justice (Hint: check out ScaleSoundSystems.com speakers), and availability of relevant loco and rollingstock models which has your nominated/preferred 1990s - 2010s era rather well-covered... For my mind, the only "division bell" factor is if you want to model: - long mainline freights winding thru scenery (choose N scale) - more-personal/up-close railroading (choose HO scale) Beyond that, it's not really a question for my mind... Happy Modelling, Aim to Start the way you mean to Go On, (and in a manner which enables starting options, rather than hamstringing you from the outset) Prof Klyzlr

Dear Keith, One of the things about ATSF is that they did document and standardise a lot of stuff. It may be more "Texas-centric", but IIRC Dave Barrow (Cat Mountain and Santa Fe, et al) did writeup some early articles which did a good "101 primer" job of explaining the common/typical western-plains-region ATSF station trackage layout, what spurs and industries went where, etc etc. To look at these "typical" track arrays, they look quite simple, (it's rare to find a switchback, esp in "wide open space" states like Texas and Kansas, where land is plentiful, cheaply available, and thus there's little-incentive to "get creative" track-array-wise on the basis of "having to squeeze things in"... much like how you're more likely to find a "space eating" Wye/triangle loco-turning track array on a Central Australian railroad, than an expensive, mechanically complex, but space-saving turntable... ...they have the land available in the Aussie Outback, so deployed the cheapest/simplest "turn the loco end-for-end" solution available...) but the ATSF station track arrays do tend to pack a lot of operation into a relatively simple array. IIRC, the "common config" was: - Straight-shot mainline - Passing loop (for mainline opposing-train meets) - Depot on the opposite site of the Main to the Pass - "House track" (serving local freighthouse) leaving the main and running behind the depot (IE the depot is in between the Main and the House Track) - and spur(s) coming off either end of the House Track as local requirements dictate. Assuming you're modelling "end of a rural branch", what you have drawn is essentially as Dave B describes, Minus the "passing loop" (which would not be required at the End of the branch, as there's no trains coming "from further down the branch" to create an "opposing meet" situation... ;-) ), and with an excess "switchback" spur... (nice, feels model-railroady, and maybe gets a pass again based on the presumed "end of the branch" location, but it does feel a little OOP...) FWIW... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Keith, Unfortunately not, B3:AM suffered a crushing injury (literally) in my last house move approx 5 years ago. (Ain't it ironic, it's own leg-system, which was acting as a load-spreader accross the top of the exoskeleton slipped out of position whilst the layout was in a mid-house-move storage locker, and thus spread precisely zero load when an 8' tower of 55-litre "train crates" tipped-over and fell down directly on the layout... ...guess I now know, when someone asks "...but seriously, how much force can a foamcore proscenium module really sustain without damage?..." the answer is "...somewhere in the region of 100+ kilos..." :-( ;-) ). The Qubelok exoskeleton survived, the trains were seperately-stored in their travel trays, and I did manage to retrieve/recover many of the major structures and scenic items. (panic over, the "Loft Building 20" rave party was saved...) Some of the electronics (there was a surprising ammount for a layout only 4' x 2' + dropleaf staging), is being recycled as we speak on my current build (some power distro and switch-gear), but some of the rescued B3:AM structures have been momentarily test-fitted into a 2' x 1' Qubelok exoskeleton, (surplus after a stillborn micro build that was too-clever for it's own good, and stalled under it's own complexity), so there may well be a "mini B3:AM" at some time in the future. (Yes, I believe the key scene can be squzzed further without compromise, and being half the dimensions of the original, and with all the structures already built, it should go together twice as fast as the original, aye?) In staircase thoughts, I do have a small roster of the Walthers/P2K NTC subway cars stashede somewhere in the warehouse, and if the mechs don't get pillaged for some other mission, I have considered if a respawned B3:AM could also host a "letterbox slot" addition in the base fascia, showing a short portion of subterranian NYC subway running? (pair of shuttle pass-thrus, possibly with some "one way turnout" subterfuge for bonus points?) That said, that's not the "itch to do some more night-scene modelling" layout I was thinking of, (Andy G knows what I'm talking about... ;-) ) and between the current build, the "mini B3:AM", and whatever the "next one" is, I would hope I'm fully equipped to hit the re-launched local exhibition scene hard, with a few layouts of suitable finescale attitude, visual appeal, and audience engagement, whenever that might be... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear RMWebbers, Having had at least one swing at a "night scene" exhibition layout, (and getting the itch to do another, truth be told ;-) ), I have to say I love Andy's adaption/implementation/exploitation of "in-situ light sources" like the car-parked-trackside... ...I imagine many onloookers, even "non-train" viewers, instantly "get" the visual of a large train being illuminated "as it move thru/past the beam of the headlights"... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear RMWebbers, Gotta plead the "Iain Rice" defense on this one... "...A spur which holds 2 1/2 cars is no better than one which holds 2 cars clear, and considerably less-useful than a spur which holds 3 cars at a pinch..." Recast and looked-at from the car-length perspective, as opposed to the spur length perspective, "...a car which is 1.x times the "standard 'nook car/unit length" for a given layout is no smaller than an exactly 2x-standard-'nook-unit-length car, (and must be treated as such, at least mathematically, even if the artistic/visual suggests otherwise) and considerably less flexible than a car which is the exact 1x "standard unit length" measure..." I'm personally not above deliberately spicing dbl-length car in the mix, (say, a 75' centrebeam into a "nominal 40' standard unit length" 'nook situation, the centrebeam therefore calcs as = 2x "standard unit length"), and as long as it's not drawn as "car #3" in the outbound train on a cannonical 5:3:3 'nook, (figure "11 standard units" of linear length for trackplanning purposes), we're all good... ;-) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear RMWebbers, Ah, that's be first-production-run with the MRC sound decoder (Ugh!),... thankfully Ath wised-up and later releases were factory equipped with SoundTraxx sound decoders, and are made even better with the addition of ScaleSoundSystems drop-in speakers... https://www.scalesoundsystems.com/product-page/athearn-genesis-mp15 As for the "lights out of position", Ath had a bee in it' bonnet about using 12V bolbs which were obviously too-small for the headlight castings for some time. Why? Dunno... ...but as they tended to die relatively frequently, modellers replaced them with LEDs and did "the needful" to make the LEDs fit properly, (again, ScaleSoundSystems is you friend here https://www.scalesoundsystems.com/led-conversions ) and recent (2019-ish onwards) Ath Genesis and RTR models seem to have graduated to factory-installed LEDs... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear RMwebbers, I'd suggest a well designed 4x2 in N, (or even HOn30) can certainly hold build, scenic, and operational interest. For consideration: Broughton Vale Tramway (HOn30, but easily converted to N) http://members.optushome.com.au/jdennis/broughton/frameset.html Cripple Creek Central (the MR project layout which inspired BVT above) NOTE! While it's a "roundy roundy", the operational schematic shown illustrates how to conceptually operate it as a "interchange to End-of-Track" shortline... reccomend checking out Kalmbach's "A HO Layout you can Build", which is a compendium of the "project layout articles" as originally published in MR... ...Yes it's HO, but should scale-down in N to something arund 4x2... ...perfect for a B'mann S-series switcher, an early GP, or a LL SW1200 switcher...). Mike Kieran's "Port Able" lines, see attached Schematic and Trackplan images... (a significant search failed to turn up any of Mike's old threads on Big Blue, RMWeb, or MRH, Utmost respect to Mike, wherever he is.... ) The layout could be resized down for N, and then expanded as available, but the core is similar to CCC above. IE a "loop" which is conceptually "unwrapped" into a P2P Interchange <> EoT shortline, with "viewblocked" "break of loop" at the "loop point".... ...works particulary well with a Ballard Terminal/Meeker Southern "park the loco and caboose on the main" technique typical of Class 3 shortlines... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear RMWebbers, 2 thoughts: 1 - There's a suspicious-looking loco there, vaguely TP56-ish? 2 - I have to say, it's only that it's the layout builder describing the layout that makes me in-any-way capable of overlooking the use of the term "novelty layout"... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS sidenote, anyone checked the Tractive Power website lately? The oh-soo-modelgenic TP56/70 looks to have been joined by some bigger brothers,... (The TP90, a SW1500 for the new generation?)

Dear RMWebbers and "Practise Plankers", If you can't readily access the MR issue in question, you can get a sneak-peak of the first 2-pages (inc trackplan, in case it's needed) from here http://www.qgdigitalpublishing.com/publication/?i=664029&p=6 (don't freak out if it loads with a "End of Preview" banner-bar accross the page, just click the "X" to the LEFT of th text "End of Preview", and keep rolling... ...for the astute, the icon at top right is interesting too....) If I catch a hardcopy at my local newsagent, I'll be sure to pick one up for the Library... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Oregon City/Blue Heron officionados, Right, this question is going to sound a bit cryptic, but for those who are suitably up-to-speed on the prototype Oregon City and Blue Heron papermill, and have a serious mind to exhibition-layout visual scene composition, it'll (hopefully) make complete sense... Here we go... Assuming we are starting with this... (with utmost respect to Scott Lothes!) You'll know that: - we're facing roughly due-south - to our right is the 505 Tavern, sandwiched between the SW1500s on Main St, and Oregon Rt 99e/the Willamette River - to the left in the dark is another (visually unremarkable) strip of shops, the UP LA<>Seattle main, and the distinctive OC overlook vertical cliff-face - and behind the Railbox boxcar is the Blue Heron papermill Now, consider that the track and Main St (in HO scale) is on the centreline of a 12"-15" wide (deep) shelf... (IE the module backdrop is the overlook cliffs and a 2" wide shelf for the LA<>Seattle main, the front/viewer fascia edge is Rt99E/the Willamette River, and we need to fit 2x strips of buildings + the Main Street switchlead in the 12-15" module depth) ...and there is no way the entire depth of 505 Tavern is going to hit between the track and the layout edge/the common viewing position... ...what to do? I forsee 2 options (and a possible 3rd oddball). Option 1 - Build 505 Tavern "foreshortened", with a solid backwall virtually hard up against the layout fascia (makes for a oddly-short building, but avoids needing to build the entire detailed inside of 505) Option 2 - Build 505 Tavern "cut-away", with a fully-exposed and detailed interior presented to the viewer (serious animation and sonic challenge, particularly if "Blues 2" is a subterfuge name for "Alice MudGarden"... ) ooooorrrrrrrr... Oddball option 3 - flip Main St North of the Rt99E/Main St intersection E<>W, so that 505 Tavern is on the other side of the street, now sandwiched between Main St and the UP LA<>Seattle main line/the distinctive Oregon City vertical cliff... (It means the more-familiar front of the tavern would be presented to the viewer which would be arguably a good scene composition move, but makes for a materially unproto configuration, and would require re-engineering the entire shop-front strip inverted L<>R...) SO, for those who know Oregon City well enough to understand the above, and have enough Iain Rice and Lance Mindheim headspace to understand the finer-points of shelf layout visual scene composition, particularly in the context of exhibition layout design and presentation, which option would you choose? Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Ray, Soo, CSAO,... do you need some shoving platforms? Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Jason, May I suggest grabbing Scotty and Jordie, heading to the Cargo Bay, and firing up the Transporter? Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Rex, Ah ha, now we get to the bottom of things... 1 - For anything US N related, keep http://www.spookshow.net at the top of your "Useful Website" bookmarked list :-) 2 - There is a number of "SW7/9/1200 switchers incorrectly identified as SW1500s" models in US-outline model history. (See the references in the SpookShow link below, and know that the "MR article" plan led not only this model, but Athearn's early HO SW7/9/1200 models astray in almost identical circumstances...) 3 - The unit you are seeing is one of a number of "pass the old tooling around" releases from a swag of US-outline manufs, none of which were particularly high-res in detail levels, or good in electrical and/or mech terms. For the full run-down, check this Spookshow.net entry http://spookshow.net/loco/rivsw1500.html 4 - The actual model itself is based (crudely) on the Union Pacific "TR6 series" cow-calf switcher sets. The "D.S. xxxx" cab numbering scheme is from waaaaaaay back in the early "Diesel Switcher" days of SP/UP... https://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=537184&nseq=42 (SP style) https://www.flickr.com/photos/151089709@N08/45053480471 (UP style) 5 - Basically, no matter which "brand"/production variant the eBay offering is, it's pretty safe to say that it's nowhere near "DCC Ready", let alone "designed to drop-in-fit a TCS GP-CN (or any other) decoder"... If you're committed to DCC, I'd pass... (Even if you weren't committed to DCC, for the same cash you could likely get a LifeLike SW7/9/1200 which runs smoother, and is designed to take a Digitrax DN126M2 or TCS MT1500 decoder...) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Rex, Um, AFAIK Atlas hasn't offered a SW1500 model, let alone in N,... ...are you sure you aren't referring to a Micro-Trains SW1500, https://tcsdcc.com/installation/n-scale/1674 or rather an Atlas MP15 switcher? (Looks kinda like an elongated SW1500, on Blomberg trucks) https://tcsdcc.com/installation/n-scale/1571 (2005-production MP15) https://tcsdcc.com/installation/n-scale/1946 (2017-production MP15) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear F-Unit, RMWebbers, F-Unit, glad to hear you got it sorted... :-) FWIW (for those who want to understand what happened "under the hood": - CV 257 default was "20" IE 16 (F0 ON) + 4 (Fwd Direction) Where BOTH conditions must be TRUE in order for the WHITE wire physical output to "turn on" - CV 273 default was "24" IE 16 (F0 ON) + 8 (Rev Direction) where BOTH conditions must be TRUE in order for the YELLOW wire physical output to "turn on" - Now, on a V5-family decoder, One would typically ADD the "Fwd" and "Rev" values together, so that if _either_ direction "state" was valid, the Output (Light) would come on, IE make both CV 257 and 273 = 28 (16 + 4 + 8 = 28) Said another way, One is effectively telling a V5 decoder to respect either/both "Direction" states. (It doesn't matter what the current Direction state is, either is acceptable). HOWEVER, as noted, the SELECT/V4 families of decoder handle Function Mapping Differently! (NB that the "Select" series was built on the fuoundation code of the V4s) SO, in contrast, in the case of a V4-based(inc SELECT series) decoder, (which is what F-Unit appears to have in this case), One removes any reference to either "Fwd" or "Rev", effectively telling the V4 decoder to ignore whatever the current "Direction" state is, and just/only worry about whether the "F0" function command is ON or OFF Ergo, for F-Unit's V4-family decoder, the trick was to SUBTRACT the "4" (Fwd) or "8" (Rev) values from the respective CVs, thus leaving both CV 257 and 273 with a value of "16" (F0 ON). Again, I'm really glad we got this working as-desired... Happy Modelling, Aiming to improve, Prof Klyzlr PS GP9u, I wish it was "the blink of an eye".... ;-) ... That said, my need to "think things thru in direct-drive CV terms" comes from a professional "Tech Support" life where all-too-frequently, the only way to get to resolve the problem is to "talk to the machines directly"... ;-)

Dear WebbCompound, I'm not sure I'm clear on the question(s), but as far as "multiple brakemen" and individually-braked cars, the Westinghouse airbrake system was developed in the late 1800s, and full "trainline" Westinghouse pneumatic brake systems were made mandatory 1893. https://www.american-rails.com/westinghouse.html By convention, the tail of most 1900s - 1940s US trains were tailed by a caboose (freight trains), combine (combined passenger and baggage/conductor car, typically used on "mixed" trains). The whole point of having the caboose was to give the Conductor and Rear-Brakeman somewhere to ride and keep an eye on the train from the rear. Pure "Passenger Trains" would have had some form of dedicated "Conductor" area for the Conductor to do their paperwork, but the majority of their time would have been spent "prowling the train". As for "Observation" and "Drumhead" tail-end cars, these were rarer than one might suspect. Typically "Obs" cars were kept for "company use" in track-assessments and "chairman of the RR is coming to town" events. "Drumhead" cars were more typical in the later "aluminium streamliner" era, and for "named passenger trains". Where a passenger train was "big and important enough" to have "head end baggage cars", it was also important enought o have special handling of such cars and the contained freight. For trains which were _not_ large/important enough to have "head end" cars, a "combine" of some format would typically be enough to cover requirements. I hope this helps... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear F-Unit, Right, coffee's onboard, and brain is firing... Firstly, you've mentioned both "V4" and "Select", these are _not_ the same decoders, and have some differences in "which CV does wot". Ergo, we're going to have to tread a bit cautiously, unless you can absolutely confirm that the decoder is _either_ - LokSound V4 L OR - LokSound Select L I appreciate that the Loksound website seems to group both "Select" and "V4" L decoders under the one entry/banner, but with the Select and V4 manuals having different CVs for Function Mapping, there really isn't a lot of room for error... That said, let's "proceed with caution" on the basis that your decoder follows "V4" function mapping, and try the following: - Ensure that the "Special Configuration 1" CVs are set for CV 31 = 16 CV 32 = 0 CV 263 = 132 ("Rule 17 Fwd") CV 271 = 136 ("Rule 17 Rev") - Now, here comes the _investigation_ part CV 31 = 16 CV 32 = 2 (Sets the Index CVs for "V4 mode" Function-Mapping) now READ the current value of CV 257 CV 273 I'm going to put my "crystal ball" glasses on, and hope predict that they are _currently_ set to CV 257 = 20 CV 273 = 24 If these two CVs are NOT as above, STOP! It means either: - the decoder is a "Select L" instead of the presumed "V4 L" OR - we have a problem with the CV Indexing and "which CV we _think_ we are playing with" If this is the case, advise what the _current values_ of these CVs are, and we'll try to "reverse-interpret" what's gone wrong by the "default" current values you advise) Now, assuming CV 257 and 273 _ARE_ as my "crystal ball" suggests they should be, (IE we have some confidence that the decoder _is_ specifically a "V4 L"), then program the following values, CV 257 = 16 (V4 "Mapping Line 1 : Control CV A") CV 273 = 16 (V4 "Mapping Line 2 : Control CV A") and retest... (If you want to "test slowly", set ONLY CV 257 = 16, thus only changing the FRONT / White-wire output behaviour). If this works as I suspect it should, and you've changed BOTH CV 257 and CV 273 = 16, then you _should_ see: F0 (Headlight function) OFF = Head and Rear lights OFF F0 ON + FWD Direction + Throttle at "Zero"/Loco-stopped = BOTH Head and Rear lights "Dim" F0 ON + FWD Direction + "Throttled up for movement" = Headlight ON, Rear lights "Dim" F0 ON + FWD Direction + Throttle at "Zero"/Loco-stopped = BOTH Head and Rear lights "Dim" (Yes, it's a duplicate, I'm listing them in exactly the "order of test conditions" I'd expect to be performed) F0 ON + REV Direction + Throttle at "Zero"/Loco-stopped = BOTH Rear and Head lights "Dim" F0 ON + REV Direction + "Throttled up for movement" = Headlight "Dim", Rear lights ON F0 ON + FWD Direction + Throttle at "Zero"/Loco-stopped = BOTH Rear and Head lights "Dim" Hopefully this gets your loco performing how you wish it to... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS just tested using a PowerCab and a Select Micro, "proper Rule 17" behaviour is absolutely possible using the same underlying ethos as above, only with the specific CVs changed to suit the different "family" decoder... ...unfortunately I can't find a "set Dimmer level/percent" CV to lower the relative-change between "On" and "Dim" states... :-( (Invoking the global "Dim" mode drops the level to a percentage of the output's "(Max) Brightness" level, so changing the "Brightness" value (for any given specific output), away from the Max value of 32 changes the "ON"/"Maximum" level for the nominated output, and the associated "Dim" level for that output simply "scales" as the stated "60%" of the Max level...)

Dear F-unit, Just woke up, so will need coffee before I dig back in, but adding the "4" (Rule 17 Fwd) and "8" (Rule 17 Rev) values together for a given Light "Special Configuration 1" CV will not achieve what you're seeking. (as you've seen, trying to enable "Rule 17" in _both directions_ for a single given Output is considered an invalid combination, and this ignored). The key will be in the Function Mapping CVs, where : - the White Output wire is configured by default to _only_ operate under "F0f" conditions (IE F0 function ON + Current Direction = Fwd) - and the same for Rear, when Current Direction = Reverse. For clarity, pls set the "Special Configuration 1" values as outlined above. IE Front = 132 (or try just "4" to see if it gives a better "dim" appearance) Rear = 136 (or just "8", if the "Forward = 4" test above works better in "Dim") This at least gains you the "auto-dim on stop" behaviour, and we can "add the non-directional" behaviour on top... ...now, where's that coffee? Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear RMWebbers, Just a BTW update, the Pt hasn't "grown a trainline brake valve", but the latest Firmware update has implemented a "brake test" function, in "trainline recovery time" and pressure readout... ...It's also gained an "Engineer Alerter" function, though for my own experience on small and micro layouts, I'm never "at rest" or "at constant speed" long enough to loose comcentration, let alone trigger a "Hey Engineer, you still with us?" Alerter alarm... ;-) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Jordan, Sounds like you're reasonably accross the situation. The only difference I'd note is that if your headlights currently "fade In/out" as they transition On/Off, then the "Mode" CVs 259 and 267 are likely currently set to value "2" (Dimmable headlight with Fade In/Out) rather than value "1" (Dimmable headlight) NB that "Dimmable" just means that if you: - turn the Head (or Rear) light ON - and manually invoke the "Dim" function from a seperate F-key then the headlight will drop to a specified "lower light output level" (default DIM level is 60% of "full brightness"). The takeaway-detail is that "dim" by default is a manually invoked thing. Configuring "Rule 17" as-outlined should effectively make it "semi automatic", relative to direction of travel... ;-) Best of luck, I hope it helps! Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear F-unit, RMWebbers et al, I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself, I just had to "punch on thru" while I had the problem freshly in-mind... OK, we're going to start with a few "given and druthers" - the below is based on the 51972_LokSound_V40_ESUKG_EN_User-Manual_Edition-4_eBook_03.PDF V4 manual. - We're assuming we want to adjust ONLY the "F0f" (White wire) Headlight, and "F0r" (Yellow wire) Rearlight. - We're assume both lights are CURRENTLY set to "Dimmable Headlight" mode IE: - Headlight Mode CV 259 = 1 - Rearlight Mode CV 267 = 1 (Ref V4 Manual Page 64 ) With the above assumed to be TRUE, you should be able to enable "Rule 17" mode by: CV 31 = 16 CV 32 = 0 (This sets-up the "Index Register" so that the below CVs adjust the Lighting functions we want them to) Headlight "Special Function 1" CV 263 = 4 ("4" = "Rule 17 Fwd") Rearlight "Special Function 1" CV 271 = 8 ("8" = "Rule 17 Rev") (Ref V4 Manual Page 63 for "which CV to change" Page 64/65 for "which value to put in the relevant CVs", and Page 66 for "what and when to use Rule 17 Fwd VS Rule 17 Rev", etc) NOTE! The Lok V4s also have a "LED mode" for lighting outputs, which is meant to adjust the way the function-output electronics "drive" the LEDs so that the LEDs behave more like a Grain-of-Wheat bulb. IF you want to try this "LED mode", adjust the above values by "adding 128" to each. IE CV 31 = 16 CV 32 = 0 (This sets-up the "Index Register" so that the below CVs adjust the Lighting functions we want them to) Headlight "Special Function 1" CV 263 = 132 (IE 4 + 128 = 132) Rearlight "Special Function 1" CV 271 = 136 (IE 8 + 128 = 136) Now, for those who are wedded to JMRI and would rather "think their way thru a screen-full of graphics" than "think their way thru straight CV values", the attached screenshot should give the required "equivalent" settings... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr