D869

I admire your dedication to the cause. Lever frame looking good too.

 

Regards, Andy

I like the sticky label idea. I had a similar problem a while back (the Royale Hotel lettering) and wound up using Pritt (a brand new stick though - it seems to deteriorate fairly quickly). This worked at the time but a ripple has since appeared - very annoying and since the lettering is inkjet printed, options for repairing need to avoid the use of water.

 

Regards, Andy

Forgot to say... may be worth checking if 'green+feather' is allowed at your location - if the speed of the diverging route (or crossover etc) is low, then I have a feeling that the signal will only clear to amber.

The signals look great now they are up and running. No idea on the switch - we have a similar one but I reckon it's the same size as yours. In the end we changed it for two slide switches, but it's for a different job than yours.

...sounds like a blob of blue-tack kept in place when the signals are packed will prevent any loose ballast chippings falling in too...

Ah, yes. What a marvelous material Blu tack is. I have several models with Blu tack still holding bits on... it's also handy plugging the odd hole in the scenery, masking bearings etc when painting, cleaning gears and I've even used it to clean track when nothing else was to hand. I believe some people stick posters to walls with it too. I wish they did it in mucky brown though.

 

Regards, Andy

I've tried to do this a few times now and got myself in a muddle. I think I'm going lt go pretty basic and lock the switches normal with the relevant FPLs and the FPLs in each direction with the signal in that direction. There is one switch that will lock the FPL normal and release the doll, which will in turn lock the switch reverse. This is a compromise but seems sensible.

 

I'm thinking of building the locking tray in plastic.

If you want to send your thoughts to me (when you're ready) then I'd be happy to look them over and help in any way that you need. It's a long while since I built mine but I still have the drawing stashed somewhere (and still have the frame attached to the layout too!). My tray is for a 20-odd lever frame and is milled from Tufnol. The moving parts are brass strip with steel pins for the bits that actually engage with each other.

 

Regards, Andy

I was wrong to think that writing a locking table would be reasonably straightforward. I am sure that many of my conundrums are due to the lack of signals and perhaps very little was actually locked in real life.

Not sure, but I suspect that those signals that did exist would have been interlocked with the points and FPLs and also with each other. Other moves would be covered by hand signals. Hard to say how complex it would be without actually working it out on paper.

 

Given your time pressure, I think the idea of leaving provision for future interlocking (by whichever means you choose) is a good suggestion.

 

Regards, Andy

So you've committed then? It had to happen sooner or later.

 

I've pondered the questions around interlocking several times for different layouts (most never built) and usually wind up back in the same place. Doing it electrically is simpler but doesn't achieve as much - the main problem being that it can't actually stop you pulling a lever... which mechanical locking will do. I've even built (with help) a mechanical locking tray for one layout.

 

Electrically you can, of course, refuse to clear the signals if the points are not normal or the relevant FPLs are not 'in'... but it's not quite the same.

 

Do you have room for a simple mechanical locking tray behind your frame? I'm guessing that it would not need to be too complicated and you seem to have some machine tools to ease the task... although changing the locking when your box is closing would likely complicate it a lot.

 

I did have an idea for using servos to physically obstruct the movement of levers (i.e. one servo to lock each lever). This might achieve the realism of mechanical locking with less of the metal bashing and would allow some of the more complex locking rules (e.g. closing), but it has not got beyond an idea and would be very dependent on the design of your frame.

 

Regards, Andy

Nice work Pete. Looks like a very neat result... just waiting to see those stone wagons loaded now...

 

Regards, Andy

Ah... another in the 50 shades series.

 

Good to see you're getting to a solution that you are happy with.

 

The two tubes look very close to making contact with the brass channel... hopefully just an illusion in the photo.

 

BTW, where do you get the tiny tube from and how do you cut it without destroying its essential 'tubeness'?

 

Regards, Andy

Thanks Pix!! I'll have a bash at painting the wheels later. Any tips on what colours to use for the wheels?

Crud colour of course!

 

It does vary depending on how long the vehicle has been in service, what time of year it is and whether it's wet or dry - winter photos often show things looking considerably cruddier than summer ones, probably because there's a lot more spray flying around.

 

I use a different mix every time. A mix of black or dark grey (Humbrol 33, 112 or 67) with brown (Humbrol 62 or 110) should do the trick. Airbrushing is best but it can be done with a brush.

 

Regards, Andy

Oh dear... what have I started?

 

What'll be the next 50 shades installment I wonder?

 

The sky looks good but do I detect an overall red tint to the photo? - maybe the lighting or the white balance on the camera?

Try a dry-brush instead of a wash?

Or Metalcote gunmetal dry brush?

Yes, dry brushing is something that I haven't tried (on this job at least). So looks like I'm not quite done experimenting just yet...

Look perfect to me, the heaping is excellent and the grading works very well.

Thanks.

First ones all good! I like the example in the middle of the photo of the larger stuff best but they probably look different in real life?

One thing that occurred to me: Would the "sparkle" be visible if the viewing distance in your photos was scaled up to the real world? Eg if you look at the last shot, everything is matt (and rightly so, I think) while the coal is conspiciously not.

 

On that basis I'm wondering whether the two wagons on the left are perhaps more "right" than we might at first think?

I've come to the conclusion that there is no 'right and wrong' here. The appearance of each load depends on the lighting conditions and my wagons need to work under a variety of lighting. They also look a bit different in real life to the way they look in these photos.

 

I'm convinced that the 'sparkle' does not scale down because the facets on 2mm scale lumps are too big, but the alternative is to kill the sparkle using some sort of coating. This is where we move away from science and into art because my completely subjective reaction to the duller loads is that they are not as good as the ones that sparkle. I think that this (and the uniformity of size) was the reason that I didn't like the BHE model coal.

 

Colour-wise, my initial reaction was that most of the loads are too black and that only the (uncoated) Anthracite approaches the bluish grey colour seen in prototype photos. The Daw Mill coated with a grey wash is also going in the right direction but I don't like the way that the wash collects in the crevices, plus it also loses some 'sparkle' (see the above comments about that).

 

So basically you pays your money and you takes your pick. I think I will not be applying any more paints or varnishes and will be going for Daw Mill or Anthracite for loco coal (or maybe a mix of the two). I will stick with all three to get variety in the house coal sized stuff.

 

Regards, Andy

Looks good mate! The coal in the first two photos looks very true to scale. I also like the boulder size for the loco coal, it's good to have variety.

Thanks Jeremy. 

 

That looks a lot better. I agree with you about the painted ones.

As for the boulder size loco coal, have you tried a mix of Anthracite and Daw Mill to get the best of both worlds.

Cheers Jerry... another experiment on the offing then... or several because I could also vary the proportions...

 

I need some more wagons now.

Those look really good Jez.

 

I'd suggest doing something to turn the stuff below solebar level to a more cruddy colour.

 

I'd also say that you should try to go for 'understated' on the passenger coach sides (but not the roofs or ends) because these did get cleaned.

 

I must admit that I haven't yet managed to bring myself to attack any of my own Farish Mark 1s... another job on the 'a round tuit' list.

 

Regards, Andy

Can't contribute anything to help on this Andy, but am quietly reading, observing and taking notes for the future as some sound advice given.

 

Looking forward to your posting on loads for those stone hoppers

Loving the title Tom!

 

What's the plan for green stuff?

 

Regards, Andy

I've tended to use a dark grey wash with some brown in it to tone down the blackness a bit as a rough nod to scale colour (I assume our loads should look more grey the further from the viewer they are placed - likewise less sparkly I suppose).

 

Looking at the prototype photos in Geoff Kent's books on 4mm wagons and also John Hayes's The4mm Coal Wagon it is amazing the different shapes that coal loads take depending on the size of coal and the method of loading.

Hi Simon. Using a wash is another idea - probably a better bet than spraying. In terms of load shape I guess that photos are the best bet but these seem to be rather less common than the volume of coal traffic would suggest. I guess that local unfitted freights tended to be quite unglamorous and to run on days and at times when photographers weren't around.

 

Regards, Andy

I looked at types and sizes and decided that the majority of non-loco coal would be graded to be in the region of a couple of inches per lump (~0.3mm lumps in 2mm) so large dust sized pieces was where I wanted it. 

I think that most of my wagon loads will be intended for domestic merchants and will use dust with something underneath to achieve the heaps. I'll likely have a go at turning all three types of coal into dust to see what sort of variation results.

 

I'll probably do one or two with more boulder sized coal and I'm tending towards the anthracite for the Manor's tender... although the Daw Mill is looking kinda grey under today's overcast skies. Decisions Decisions.

I just checked my coal stash and you were right, I was looking at the smokeless stuff! I guess the answer to the shininess is a coat of varnish on the loads that need it.

Hmm... an interesting idea. I might see what happens if I spray Dullcote onto some anthracite... that stuff is VERY matt and the anthracite is VERY shiny so it will be interesting to see what wins.

I would also go along with heaps - I use balsa carved,to shape with smashed up real coal stuck down with thick PVA with a dollop of black acrylic in it.

I have an old tobacco tin with graded coal in and a little pot of coal dust which I sprinkle over the top  which maintains the slight sparkle you get with coal.

Thanks Jerry. I was hoping for some words from the owner of a colliery layout.

 

Plenty more scope for experiments. I quite like this trial and error form of modelling where I'm not investing too much effort into each attempt and so don't mind chucking the failures in the bin.

 

The BHE 'coal' is still not doing it for me although I can't quite put my finger on what's wrong with it. To some extent I think that the answer is more art than science - the real coal may not scale down perfectly but it 'sells' itself better to the viewer (well, to me anyway). Anyway, that's number 2 in line for the bin.

First thoughts, the back row middle looked a bit odd, but after looking through a few shots on Flickr there are some industrial coal loads that look a bit like that, though I prefer the 'blacker' look.

Yes, that one is going to be the first one to go in the bin.

In most of my photos, rain or sun, there is a little bit of sparkle or shine to the loads.

Yes. I think that the snag here is that when broken down to 2mm scale the lumps tend to have very flat facets, so the whole lump sparkles when the light catches it at the right angle whereas in reality the sides of the lumps are more irregular, so the sparkly bits are smaller and more evenly spread.

I would also say the loads need to be a little more heaped in the middle.

The smaller grained loads are definitely too flat just now due to my laziness/impatience in not wanting to build up any heaps with Das (or whatever) and then need to paint it before I could stick the coal on. The more lumpy loads that I've seen in photos tend to be quite irregular without obvious heaps, but I suspect that other photos may show the opposite.

 

Regards, Andy

...and Anthracite is usually not as "shiny" as coal.

Not sure about that. The descriptions I've read say that it's very hard and shiny... which sounds like what I've got. It also says it makes minimal nasty crud in the combustion gases - a good thing in a loco with small fire tubes. Its' also difficult to light... which I can definitely agree with...

 

http://www.coalmerchantsfederation.co.uk/products/anthracite

I think the loads you have set up look pretty representative of different types, one thing someone here might know was wether BR coal trains were of a block type, i.e. from one pit/coalfield to one customer or were there different types of coal for a variety of customers grouped into big trains.

Thanks. I suspect the answer will be 'it depends'. My guess is that for the sort of coal merchants so beloved of us modellers there would be a variety of types (and sizes) of coal being delivered, but likely no boulders. Steam depots and big industrial users would be another matter.

Looking good. Do you know what mesh it actually is?

 

Regards, Andy

On that note...get back on the hydraulics Andy...

 

Hi Pete.

 

Just finished a spectacularly unsuccessful testing session in which just about everything possible failed including one of the point crossing switches and the controller.

 

Controller and loco alive again now. Layout will be mended another day.

 

Off to watch a film.. with some err... hydraulic... refreshments on hand.

 

Regards, Andy

Yes only one. I might get another from a subsequent batch but I wanted to evaluate it for the more extreme manor that I tend to repurpose it in. See what I did there? *ducks*

 

 Glad to see that the standard of humour on RMWeb remains at its usual level.

A bit of lead in the bogey to aid adhesion might help too. I have done this with the pony trucks on my prairies.

 

Yes. There is already some lead in the middle section of the bogie and I might be able to add some more without it being too visible.

 

I think that if the bogie was just a wagon on its own it would already be perfectly happy so the main problem is the forces that act on it through the pivot arm... which is what I intend to improve. The fact that it flops around too much while I'm trying to put all of the wheels on the rail is also something that I want to sort out.