Sunderland South Dock Stabling/Refuelling Point

[Paul W]

I have been correlating as much information as possible from many sources, online & printed, concerning the Sunderland South Dock stabling & refuelling point during 1975 - 1985. I have visited it  many times in the period and took many photo's, but regrettably the main focus of my cameras attentions were the class 37's or 56's and not the environment which they were surrounded by.

 

Photo's of the shed, refuelling point and the sidings on either side of the shed are numerous and I have sufficient information concerning these, except the shed roof but I think I am going to have to go on the interior shots to get a feel for this. Does anyone have any good pictures of the buildings directly behind the shed and sidings? as I only seem to find photo's of them in the distance and are only partial.

 

I would really like a good image of the track plan too for the period above. I have found one on Google but for some reason I cannot get a better quality picture when clicked on than a low resolution one which is so blurred ,it is of little help.

 

Also any photo's showing the south end of the stabling point and the approach road into the complex would be much appreciated.

 

Many thanks in anticipation of your responses.

[Paul W]

Hmmmm.........not looking too hopeful is it 

[JeffP]

I've never even heard of it...and thought I'd been to most sheds, works, stabling points in the UK.

 

Can you pinpoint it for me?

And have you looked on Historic Maps online? Old Maps Online?

[Paul W]

Hi Jeff

 

Photo attached, the usual generic shot of the shed.

 

Was originally a steam shed with depot code SUN from 1857, then 54(A) from 1950 then 54(G) 1958 I believe, closed to steam from 17/09/1967.

 

Originally had a roundhouse and other large depot buildings associated with a large steam depot at the time. After closure to steam, the majority of the buildings and environment were swept away, leaving just the 4 road loco shed and a few related buildings which were utilised to stable and refuel loco's providing motive power for the associated movements around the dock complex and the endless coal trains in and out of the staithes at Blyth and for bringing exported coal to the dock.

 

Main stay for out based class 37's from Gateshead in the 70's and then class 56's in the 80's.

 

Now a level cleared site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Paul W]

And yes, I have looked at many sources of maps etc.....to little avail.

 

As said in the OP I have found one which would be great but it only exists on Google and cannot be opened into a higher resolution as the source to Google no longer exists.

 

I am still searching hoping to find what I need, just hoped someone might have photo's of the areas in question, which most of us on our trips to these sort of places ignored as we just concentrated on the loco's.

[60091]

Hi Jeff

I've a few photos of the South Dock area from 1986! As you'd expect most are the traditional views of the shed with 56s and 37s lined up.

I'm not sure of the exact locations you're looking for, but I'll sort out and post some from 1986-90, and hope they'll be of some use.

The late Ian Carrs collection would probabaly contain what you're looking for, but isn't available to view, also Pinzac55, who's on this site, has an extensive collection of North East photos. His collection is somewhere on the web but not sure which site.

 

 

Two shots showing some roof detail 1986 - probably unaltered since steam days?

 

A nice cameo to model. HAA s being canibalised for parts 1990s

[60091]

I'll have to use a series short posts this evening as my internet keeps cutting out...

 

Crew room and offices 1986.

I photographed this building as I planned to use it on a layout - sometime - somewhere.... 

 

 

Derelict c1999?

From the south

 

From the west

 

From the north west

 

The east side stood alongside private port authority land so I was unable to photograph it.

 

 

 

Regards

Alan

[60091]

Unfortunately this shot isfrom a poor angle and is probably too far south to be of any use? The depot is behind the 4 rows of HAAs in the centre. The white triangular gables of the pub which stood opposite are just visible above the wagons.

 

Taken near Hendon Jct box 1986.

 

Another possible source of photographs might be Sunderland Museum. They have a large collection including ariel views, although I don't know if they'd provide copies or the costs.

 

Alan

[Paul W]

Hi Alan

 

Superb.......the train crew building photo's are just what I am after. The other locations I am after are anywhere within the depot confines which don't include the shed, except for exterior roof shots, but who will have one of those?

 

Love the 2 upturned HAA's....nice cameo as you say.

 

The last photo is of interest to....any idea which road is the access road to the depot amongst that lot?

 

I have seen some of Pinza's photo's some of which are useful. The interior of the engine shed remained unchanged from steam days and I have some great shots of the interior, including the open inspection pits.

 

Just need a comprehensive track plan, but I have worked out about 3/4's of it from photo's so nearly there.

 

Thanks Alan.

 

Paul

[60091]

The last photo is of interest to....any idea which road is the access road to the depot amongst that lot?

 

Hi Paul - sorry, no idea why I called you Jeff. Probably got mixed up with another post!

 

The entrance to the depot in the 1980s-90s was the right turn shown on the view from the north west. The public road just sort of ended in front of the north side of the building.. it ended up against high security fencing for the port authority land. It was always overgrown with weeds and even a couple of small bushes. Sadly, after the depot closed it became a dumping ground for rubbish.

The view from the south shows the access road into the depot on the left of the building. The confusing shot is the one showing the west side. The main access road is running left to right in front of the building. the other road was a right turn once inside the depot. It probably gave access around the back of the shed??.. and would have probably eventually ended against the cobbled surface shown under the scrapped HHAs.

IIRC there was a high red brick wall (8ft+) running along the back of the depot and the public access road and that about 50-60ft from the entrance,was an old entrance (12-16ft wide) sealed by a large pair of padlocked and chained wrought iron gates. I'm sure I took the photo of the HHAs through those gates. Hope this all makes sense!

 

Alan

[Paul W]

Alan

 

With reference to other photo's your descriptions make good sense. Like the sound of the 8' brick wall and padlocked secondary entrance too.

 

This helps a lot in drawing up a scale plan.

 

Any idea what went up that major incline on the right of the photo with all the rakes of HAA's in the sidings.....haven't seen that in a photo before. In the same mentioned photo do you know which, if any, was the access line to the depot for the locomotives or was the access to the depot from somewhere out of shot?

 

What ever else you may have of Sunderland SD then please post as you can never have enough of a good thing....well that's what I tell SHMBO anyway, me being the good thing of course.

[Mark Saunders]

The shed building was refurbished during the early 1990's and then promptly demolished when asbestos was discovered!

 

Mark Saunders

[60091]

Here's an ariel view from an old slide I found. Probably c1980.

Unfortunately the shed is in the distance and when I tried to magnify the area, the quality quickly deteriorated.

I've also posted them as large as possible to help you pick out any details.

 

 

 

Regards

Alan

[60091]

Not sure how far to the south of the sheds you're planning to model, but this might be of some interest?

This is the base of the coaling stage which survived long after almost every thing else had been cleared. The area once occupied by the shed access roads is on the left and the office building is in distance in the 2nd photo.

These are part of a series of photos I took of the surviving trackwork at South Dock in 1999, when the Petrofina traffic was running.

If only I'd been able to photograph the same locations 15 years earlier!

 

 

[60091]

Hi Paul

Just caught up with your posts,.. while I,ve been posting.

The ariel view will hopefully help you make sense of things. The rakes of mgrs on the right , on the incline, are being stored on what were the access roads to the last working coal staith at Sunderland. If you are modelling late 70s this would have been in use and 21t HTVs would have dominated the scene. You can just make out curving features on the ground between this staith and the other surviving staith further south. At one time this was all track giving access to coal staiths along the dock side. 

In the ariel view, to the left of those mgr rakes is the base of the coaling stage with the depot access roads to the left of that. In my shot taken from near Hendon Jct Box I think they're obscured by a line of HHAs. 

 

Alan

[Paul W]

Alan

 

Thank you once again, I have seen a couple of aerial shots like this before but not in colour so this is a great help.

 

I have had the same problem with resolution loss with a lot of the photo's and maps I have already found online, which is a bit of a nuisance, as it then lacks the detail required.

 

I am planning a layout of a minimum of 12' x 2' of this depot location so it will be interesting to see what I can get in when the planning has been finalised. It will be class 56 dominated as I have a large pool ready for action.

 

The depot buildings will obviously take centre stage accompanied by the depot offices and what looks like a workshop frontage on the other side of the boundary fence as part of the backscene, but the planning is very preliminary at the moment. I would want all of the track work immediately associated with the depot, so this would include the sidings to the left and right of the sheds and the refuelling point, but I am still trawling photo's to get as good a picture overall as is possible.

[Paul W]

Alan

 

I have just spent an enjoyable hour reading through your Sunderland  South Stabling Point layout thread.

 

What a shame it didn't get finished, I especially loved the car park as a backscene, or frontscene depending on which way you looked at it. A lot of time & effort to no avail. Damn shame that.

 

Let's hope the next one will be as good but more satisfying for you to operate.

 

Keep modelling.

[60091]

Thanks Paul

Yes it's a shame the Sunderland Stabling point layout didn't work out. Not enough planning and too many short cuts. It's a location I'd had in mind to model, for a long time. 

It may be resurected in future but probably in N gauge.

 

Good luck with the South Dock project. I'll keep a look out for it.... and if I come across anything that might be of use to you, I'll post it here.

 

Regards

Alan

[highpeakman]

This map site provides a lot of useful information as you can change the map on one side of the split to compare with a modern satellite view. There is a choice of maps at different historic periods. Note that these map choices can vary with different locations and can provided excellent track diagrams.

 

Unfortunately, in this case, there is no choice of map that shows the detail of the track layout in the period required but this comparison choice shown below shows what was there once. An amazing amount of railway within the dock area.

 

 http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=16&lat=54.9112&lon=-1.3633&layers=175&right=BingHyb

 

Here's a second comparison, again not quite the right period but showing the depot buildings at least.

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=16&lat=54.9112&lon=-1.3633&layers=10&right=BingHyb

 

 

 

This mapping site is great for comparing what was once in existence compared to now at most UK locations.

[Porcy Mane]

Any good?

 

 

 

P

 

[Paul W]

Alan

 

Thanks for your consideration. Your photo's and info have been invaluable.

 

I have also been reading your S & C  thread, another cracker of a layout. Superb layout with excellent scenery and a fantastic representation of a great piece of British Railways blue. If you do come across anything which you might think is useful I would be happy to receive.

 

Highpeakman

 

Thanks for the links. Very helpful. I haven't come across this site before. It will be one to save for future use too.

 

Porcy Mane

 

Now THAT is what I have been after. Thank you for taking the trouble to post it. That clearly shows everything I need.

 

It also shows me I may need to rethink the track plan I have put together from photographs too,  to accommodate the full length of 2 of the sidings and the run round. This is going to be a challenge.

 

Paul

[Paul W]

As usual all the information provided by this excellent forum has thrown up more questions.

 

I have good photo's of the refuelling point and equipment, but there seems to be no storage facilities above ground, so does this mean that the storage tanks were below ground or was there another means of providing fuel to the pumps.

 

Also, if the fuel was stored was the fuel delivered by the usual visits from TTA wagons and unloaded via unloading facilities or was it piped directly from another source.

[Coach bogie]

Here are few from my collection taken in the early 1990's

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Paul W]

Hi Mike

 

Great photo's, thank you for taking the time to post them.

 

In the second photo, the line in the centre to the right of the line that leads to the sidings with the 08 sitting in them, is this the access line to the depot? It looks as though it probably is when comparing it to the diagram from Porcy Mane.

[60091]

Hello again

Paul - many thanks for the comments about the S&C layout.

 

I found this tonight. Taken (too late) c1995 from the steps of Hendon Jct Box, with all the track to the depot and sidings severed.

 

  

 

I'd hadn't thought about fuel supplies to South Dock but don't remember seeing any TTAs around the depot, only the occasional VDA stores van. Also, I lived next to the coast line, south of Sunderland Station, for 12 years and never saw any trip workings conveying TTAs. 

 

IIRC about the time I arrived in Sunderland the remaining local trip workings were in the hands of a South Dock 08+brake. I never found out how/where these trips worked in and out of South Dock but the wagons might provide some variety, to all the rakes of TTAs and HTVs, in the sidings. By 1986-7 the trips were in the hands of locos so I assume didn't run via South Dock?

 

Alan