DavidM Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Hi All, I'm currently concentrating on modelling the late 80s and early 1990s (1990 to be precise!) era on the Scottish section of the WCML. I'm pretty clued up on most goings on up there in this era however I don't have much info on the Freightliner trains of the time (far more interested in the 86s up front....). What wagons would we need to use - and who's the best RTR provider/kit supplier to get them from? Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I think these are FAAs - and resources are limited. Pretty well everything currently available RTR is really contemporary . In the 80s , FEAs and intermodals are definitely out, and I'm reasonably confident the various types of "pocket" wagons weren't there either There is a very basic and very elderly Hornby FAA, and I believe an elaborate etched brass kit , which I remember the Fatadder built (Colin Craig?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted March 9, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2010 If it's the type that ran in fixed rakes of five vehicles that you are after you have two choices. Hornby do them as RTR but they are very basic, with no detail at all although an aftermarket kit is available to bring them somewhere closer to the real thing. The ultimate freightliner flats though are the Colin Craig brass kits, these make up into as close a model of the protoytpe as its possible to get. I can't recall any single criticism of this kit.... see http://colincraig4mm.co.uk/#/ffafga/4532599037 Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Ravenser's comments are correct except the relevant tops codes are FFA (inners) and FGA (outers) - FAA's are "well style" low deck wagons built for EWS. It's either the extremely basic Hornby one or the mind bogglingly gorgeous CC etched kits at the moment, although these have topped "wish lists" for the last 3 or 4 years. The upcoming Hornby KFA will be suitable depending on lettering details, they will be nearly brand new - the TIPH ones Hornby are modelling seem to have been built circa 1988. The FSA/FTA sets were Freightliner's next wagons and they were built circa 1992. Suspect you'll be scratchbuilding most of the containers as well if you want anything passably accurate. Welcome to the black art of intermodal modelling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 Three fantastic replies there - cheers gents! It definately seems i've entered the Twilight Zone with these then..... The brass kits look fantastic but might be a little bit out of my skill range Andi, do you have any details of the kits available to detail up the Railroad examples? Cheers! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltic79 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 The FFA/FGA detailing kits are made by S Kits (no internet presence, mail order only or available at exhibitions - pretty sure Shawplan are stockists of S Kits). Before passing into the S Kits range they were made by Mendip Models, in case you stumble across old stock anywhere. HTH Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 are the old Hornby ones that had grey Freightliner containers on them any good? see them second hand all the time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 See above re lack of detail, less obvious if you have a full load on them. And apart from that they are all inner wagons, they didn't make any outers. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 See above re lack of detail, less obvious if you have a full load on them. And apart from that they are all inner wagons, they didn't make any outers. Keith so you could run 5 of the older Hornby ones together if you modified the 2 outers with a kit? excuse my ignorance, but didn't take too many pictures at the time due to cost of processing and memory is not as good as it was also take it that the newer Hornby models would not be seen running with the older?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 so you could run 5 of the older Hornby ones together if you modified the 2 outers with a kit? Yes also take it that the newer Hornby models would not be seen running with the older?? No, as posted above the KFAs as Hornby are producing date from circa 1988, so between then and circa 2005 when the FFA/FGA were withdrawn both types ran in the Freightliner intermodal fleet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 right that's sorted then get a set of 5 of the older ones sorted second hand and a couple of the newer Hornby ones suits my time line perfectly thanks for the help sorry if i hijacked the thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BR Blue Posted May 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 24, 2011 ..... Suspect you'll be scratchbuilding most of the containers as well if you want anything passably accurate. Welcome to the black art of intermodal modelling. I am modelling a same period and am trying to build up the courage to tackle the Colin Craig kit. However as regards containers is there nothing available? Its a bit of a black art as mentioned, I know that the new bigger containers especially the higher ones are out. Any help appreciated and sorry if this is too far off topic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted May 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 24, 2011 I am modelling a same period and am trying to build up the courage to tackle the Colin Craig kit. The CC kits go together VERY easily, just follow the instructions to the letter. I'd never built an etched kit before and mine went together very well. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I am modelling a same period and am trying to build up the courage to tackle the Colin Craig kit. However as regards containers is there nothing available? I'd suggest doing a lot of looking at photo's and get an idea of what was on the trains firstly...you might have *some* boxes out there that are do-able or kitbashable from the RTR and kits available which suit the more modern types, but you've a lot of work ahead either way. (Ignoring Freightliner's domestic fleet which seems to have been pretty varied) you've three (or 4 depending on how you look at it) rough "styles" of basic construction from a modelling perspective: Type 1 - early: Going back beyond your specific period from the 1970s boxes were largely in aluminium, either double skinned (smooth sided) or single skinned (ribbed sided) - see the YS lines second stack on this pic from the 70s. Some were also skinned with FRP instead of aluminium from this era but the look is broadly similar either way. http://www.matts-pla.../rdg/ctiu20.jpg And of course there were 40s as well, although 40s seem to have been much rarer initially... http://www.matts-pla...molu2071441.jpg Some of those older ones may be only 8' high, so if you see different height boxes on trains in that era it will be due to 8' versus 8'6" not todays 8'6" versus 9'6" boxes... Type 1 modelling: Arguably the old KeilKraft (now Knightwing) kit gets you boxes vaguely along these lines, but to be honest there is minimal detail there and i'm not sure it's any easier than just scratchbuilding them, the only thing the kit really acheives is a fairly plain box, no rivet detail or whatever.... Type 2 - early steel ribbed boxes: Here's a photo which i'm pretty sure was taken in the 80s - we have a pair of NYK boxes, the nearer is aluminium as above, the rear one brings us to the newer steel box designs that started coming in from the end of the 60s, spotting features versus a modern 20' (for that particular one) might be the square ribs versus todays angled corrugations, logo panels and flat panel doors. The nearer is 8' and the rear one is 8'6" as well... http://www.matts-pla...bh/nyka0890.jpg There's doesn't seem to be a clear cut changeover date wise even in construction between Alu/FRP "smooth side" and steel boxes so definately not a clear cut use-by date... (in fact Maersk were building 45' high cubes into the early 80s in aluminium, some of which are still running nowadays!) The trouble is with those 70s/80s ribbed boxes that there are lots of differences, there were lots of small container builders building smallish batches for lots of shipping companies, so lots of variation. Here's an APL box with logo panels on the ends as well as the sides: http://www.matts-pla...apls2760260.jpg ACT with no logo panels at all... http://www.matts-pla...ages/actu20.jpg CAST - panelled doors, no logo panels, vents http://www.matts-pla.../rg/cast20a.jpg CAST - flat doors, no logo panels, vents (and a panel for the data) http://www.matts-pla.../rg/cast20c.jpg MOL with two logo panels and smooth doors http://www.matts-pla...2392760_elm.jpg Lots of other variants out there with logo panels at one end only, or horizontal stiffeners across logo panels - logo panels were partly tied to livery but boxes changing hands and possibly smaller builders using standard designs seem to mean that some paint schemes that didn't need logo panels still had them - it's varied, you get the idea... Roofs are the other thing that changed over this period, early ones may well have just had flat steel roofs, later ones were ribbed like modern boxes... Type 2 modelling: I'd expect the majority of your boxes in a late 80s train will need this square rib construction, and I know of nothing in OO that works for it easily (although i've just had a brainwave for a kit that might give you a do-able but random kitbash....will check it's viability tonight and report back!) Otherwise the C-rail 40' kit might give you a floor, roof and non-door end towards some of these? Type 3 - Modern corrugations: From the early 1980s (again a vague date, lots of builders, lots of boxes, lots of owners, lots of variations) the square ribs appear to have gradually transitioned into todays modern angled corrugations. No clear-cut changeover from one design to the other, just the ribs gradually falling out of fashion (or more likely being less able to cope with the increasing scale of operations)... Lower box has square ribs and logo panels, the upper is a modern "all corrugated" design, that shows the difference in the look of the ribs versus corrugations fairly well: http://www.matts-pla...lcru1453468.jpg Logo panels (as needed, or sometimes even if not!) continued at first on corrugated boxes but have gradually fallen out of favour: http://ukrailwaypics...3_jT3xK-L-1.jpg There was an interesting interim "bevelled" logo panel design which I guess was to try and keep the logo panel feature whilst building a little extra strength in... http://ukrailwaypics...IBU420247-L.jpg But the final evolutionary stage was the modern all-corrugated box that we see every day. Type 3 modelling: Modelling wise, there are products on the market (at present Bachmann's slightly tall 20' and the matching C-Rail 40' kit, Dapol's 20' and 40' standard height) which will give a rendition of the "all corrugated" - I think you might get *some* boxes in your train where there was an operator buying new boxes in the 80s without no logo panels (Maersk and P&O would be worth looking out for off the top of my head?) where you might be able to just use a couple of the usual kits with no modifications. If you went the Bachmann/C-Rail route you'd have to accept the small dimensional issue but the kit version would also allow kitbashing a logo panelled corrugated box fairly easily I would expect, and as I said in the "type 2" section even though the sides are very different you'd be able to use some components towards those too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Sorry - should have credited Matt Hannes website for most of those links: http://www.matts-place.com/intermodal/part1/sea_containers1.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Some Freightliner containers from that period here http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightlinercontainer Searching the site for Freightliner container brings up other collections with other containers. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plarailfan Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Here's one of mine - a curtain sider, just to add variety, I'm afraid I've never seen a kit for one though http://www.flickr.com/photos/41294071@N02/5574429379/ scratchbuilding it would keep you occupied on a winter Sunday afternoon... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BR Blue Posted May 25, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 25, 2011 Many thanks. I am very grateful for all the information and links provided. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 The FFA/FGA detailing kits are made by S Kits (no internet presence, mail order only or available at exhibitions - pretty sure Shawplan are stockists of S Kits). Before passing into the S Kits range they were made by Mendip Models, in case you stumble across old stock anywhere. HTH Rob any idea where to get hold of them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 As per the quoted post, http://www.shawplan.com/ usually includes S-Kits when they do a show. If you're at DEMU showcase in a couple of weeks time they should be there... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Sorry, forgot about the thread... Type 2 modelling: I'd expect the majority of your boxes in a late 80s train will need this square rib construction, and I know of nothing in OO that works for it easily (although i've just had a brainwave for a kit that might give you a do-able but random kitbash....will check it's viability tonight and report back!) My musing was on using the C-Rail 30' bulktainer sides as fodder for the sides, as they have a square ribbed profile - I think it's too shallow ideally, but it might be the closest thing you'll get to it - you'd need to kitbash around the bottom lift strengthening bits though - the rest of the kit isn't much use for you as it has 'palletwide' ends with a bulktainer door, roof hatches, ladder inner end etc... Might be simpler to start with some plasticard... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 As per the quoted post, http://www.shawplan.com/ usually includes S-Kits when they do a show. If you're at DEMU showcase in a couple of weeks time they should be there... i can't see anything on their site about S Kits, but will contact them anyway. thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I don't know that they hold a stock for mail order, I think the guy behind S-Kits helps Shawplan at shows and "shares" stand space... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 i'll just have to lookout for them at a show thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
totonlover Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Bit off topic perhpas but did the yellow P+O containers run with the BLUE p+O containers or were they from diffrent time periods as I have both variants of the Bachmann intermodal? thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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