'New Colletts from Old'

[Prometheus]

This has been soldiering on for a month or more but is now, at last, finished. The build blog is here:

 

https://srmg.org.uk/dinner-in-the-diner/

 

Warning though, if you do go there, the digital enlargements are cruel and the lining is nowhere near as ragged !

 

For those who just want photos however:

 

 

 

I was not able to find a prototype illustration of the coach in this livery anywhere and so had to rely on images of models for information about the positioning of the lettering.

 

I'd been toying with the idea of building one of these for a while but Alan Davies' May RM article provided the spur and for that Alan, many thanks.

 

Tony

Edited November 21, 2016 by Prometheus

[The Fatadder]

Very nice!

 

Mine is still in primer (and has been since January!)

[Mallard60022]

Really like the hinge method. I'd not have thought of that; might try it on something soon so thanks for the great idea.

Great conversion BTW.

Phil

[rovex]

Looks good, and I can't see that your comments on the paint job are justified, looks fine to me.

 

The only thing I would say is, I would probably have replaced the ends altogether and made up new ones from plastic card.

 

I'm inclined to the view that the Hornby ends actually make the coach too long and having spent time trying to hack the corridor connections off them in the past and ended up slicing bits off my fingers it is just simpler to replace them with plasticard that is bent to shape and slots inside the retained plastic sides, any gaps being filled with filler.

 

but all in all very impressive

[Mallard60022]

Looks good, and I can't see that your comments on the paint job are justified, looks fine to me.

 

The only thing I would say is, I would probably have replaced the ends altogether and made up new ones from plastic card.

 

I'm inclined to the view that the Hornby ends actually make the coach too long and having spent time trying to hack the corridor connections off them in the past and ended up slicing bits off my fingers it is just simpler to replace them with plasticard that is bent to shape and slots inside the retained plastic sides, any gaps being filled with filler.

 

but all in all very impressive

That's a clever ruse. I wonder if it would be possible to use Comet ends as well as sides as the Comet parts for the kit actually produce a tidy looking end. Even more tidy if the gangways are replaced with Masokits ones as per Pendon/Kingstorre I believe?

Phil

[Prometheus]

I agree both. The ends are a big compromise [not the only one either !] and in this build I learned a lot of lessons. The next one is the Ocean Mails coach and I'm going to explore white metal ends for it.

 

thanks again.

 

Tony

[rovex]

I suppose the problem with comet ends might be that it highlights that Hornby roof profile may be wrong

[Prometheus]

The curtains have been commented upon elsewhere so I thought I'd explain them. I spent an age trying to find some material that looked convincing and, importantly, to scale at normal viewing distances. Paint wasn't the answer: some have done this well but I tried and it looked just like, well, paint. I experimented with various types of textured paper and they didn't work either, neither did cloth [the pattern or weave was always too large].

 

Eventually, and purely by chance [real happenstance], when having some vertical blinds replaced I was left with a strip of blind material that seemed to have potential. It cut well with scissors and whilst it would not take acrylic paint without becoming a little fibrous it did seem OK 'in the raw'. It also had a texture which almost simulated folds. That's what was used.

 

I have enough left to curtain, at a guess, around a thousand coaches !

 

Finally, and not without good reason, sooner or later someone will probably observe that the lining on this coach is a little, well, sparse. Mea culpa: I chickened out and left it at one waist line only as I doubted my ability [and eyesight] in applying the lower band in a completely parallel fashion. I thought I'd say it before anyone else did !!!

 

Tony

Edited November 17, 2016 by Prometheus

[Mallard60022]

Tony, I do hope I did not offend by mentioning this lovely conversion elsewhere and (erm) suggesting the curtains looked a bit like paper kitchen towel? The method for the curtains is very clever; I'd never have thought of using some old blind material of which I have quite a lot, enough for every coach, that needed/will need curtains, ever built for a model railway. The pictures on the Swansea link are excellent thank you. Inspiring too.

Phil

[Prometheus]

Absolutely no offence taken whatsoever Phil. I only put in the curtain post as I thought that the solution might be of interest. Fortunately we do not view things with the same terrifying clarity that digitally enlarged images allow for ! I think that almost any solution to the realistic curtain problem would suffer under those circumstances and, clearly, not all vertical blind material will work either. I was just lucky to find something that worked well at three feet.

 

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

 

Tony

[checkrail]

Very nice conversion indeed Tony.  By coincidence I came across it just as I was finishing a much more perfunctory and less ambitious H33 makeover - like yours inspired by Westerner's recent RM article and his more detailed account on this forum.

 

 

I was in my usual 'lazy man in a hurry' mode, and kept the original sides - as my period is late 30s I can just about get away with it, and the printing on the most recent incarnations of the 'Railroad' version is beautiful, whatever the model's other shortcomings.  Like you I replaced most of the roof detail, and added wire handrails to the ends.  The latter were replacements from Keen systems - I found it difficult to saw the gangways off the Hornby ends without removing half the steps as well.  I also repainted the brown droplights and the table tops.

 

 

The finished body was then grafted on to a new Hornby Collett underframe. This worked quite well with a bit of cutting and filing, and provided nicely detailed bogies.  Unfortunately it also left me with a continuous footboard, rather then the 'below doors only' arrangement of the prototype.  I'll have to invest in a very narrow & sharp chisel to remedy this, but I'll live with it for now.  Like you I added Comet gas cylinders, and had similar fettling to do to fit them.

 

 

The only thing I don't like about the exquisite Hornby finish is the silvered grab handles.  I've tried to touch them in with brass colour but my skills just aren't up to it - I can get gold paint on anything except the b***** handles.  Ah well.  (By the way, your paint finish is great.)

 

 

I admire your perseverance with the door hinges.  One of the things that has deterred me so far from brass coach kits, though I guess when time allows I'll bite the bullet.

 

John C.

 

My layout: STOKE COURTENAY, 4mm scale 1930s GWR junction station.  See layout topic.

[Prometheus]

Thanks for your comments John and I agree, the latest Hornby release of this coach does have a nicely applied livery. Your conversion is dramatically improved though. I've messed about with quite a few of these and this...

 

https://srmg.org.uk/quick-improvements-to-a-Hornby-railroad-gwr-dining-car/

 

...was a slightly less detailed earlier one as I wanted to keep the original pre-rebuilt sides. Lots of compromise, as ever, but it runs nicely in its rake. And I've just noticed that I also did not repaint the handles and grab-rails in brass !

 

I rather like your corridor connections, too. Mine look over-long and clunky when viewed alone, but when coupled in a rake they look fine and close the gap nicely.

 

Did you sacrafice a new Collett to get that underframe or did you manage to get one as a spare ? It makes a great deal of difference visually.

 

Tony

Edited November 18, 2016 by Prometheus

[Coach bogie]

This has been soldiering on for a month or more but is now, at last, finished. The build blog is here:

 

https://srmg.org.uk/dinner-in-the-diner/

 

Warning though, if you do go there, the digital enlargements are cruel and the lining is nowhere near as ragged !

 

For those who just want photos however:

 

 

 

I was not able to find a prototype illustration of the coach in this livery anywhere and so had to rely on images of models for information about the positioning of the lettering.

 

I'd been toying with the idea of building one of these for a while but Alan Davies' May RM article provided the spur and for that Alan, many thanks.

 

Tony

 

A bit late now!

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Prometheus]

Thanks Mike - how galling !  And there is only one pair on each Pressfix sheet too. And they're firmly sealed under a coat or twp of Klear and then a flash of Dullcote.

 

Oh well, I can live with it...

 

Tony

[checkrail]

 

 

I rather like your corridor connections, too. Mine look over-long and clunky when viewed alone, but when coupled in a rake they look fine and close the gap nicely.

 

Did you sacrafice a new Collett to get that underframe or did you manage to get one as a spare ? 

 

Thanks for the link to your Swansea MRG article.  Great stuff - wish I'd seen it before I started!  It makes me think that I should give the SE Finecast glazing units a go, though I've read that they can discolour over time (?)

 

Corridor connections on the H33 are the Keen System ends with their floating end plates, but were I starting again I think I'd saw the gangway ends off and just use conventional folded paper bellows types with Plastikard ends as on the adjacent coaches.

 

Re underframe: I already had a sacrificial spare in that I'd bought an extra Hornby Collett to see how easily the body components came apart (for removing glazing to repaint the garish scarlet droplights, and to remove gangway ends).  I expected I'd do serious damage finding out, but not so.  One can even take the gangways off but keep the gangway suspension arms in place ready to embrace new folded paper gangways, so well done Hornby. 

 

Nothing I produce is ever gonna go in a glass case, but my finished H33 looks passable within a train I think - pics below.  'Layout coaches' in Tony Wright's phrase.

 

 

 

(By heck!  That down platform starting signal went back on sharpish.  And looks like someone's burgled the signal box and nicked the levers.) 

 

John C.

 

My layout: STOKE COURTENAY, 4mm scale 1930s GWR junction station.  See layout topic.

[HowardGWR]

What a brilliant expression! 'Layout coaches'.  Almost as good as Peter Denny's 'two foot rule' and almost in the same sentiment.  I notice, on Pendon visits, that I am enthralled with layout viewings but become hyper-critical when examining the glass case exhibits!

 

On topic, I have grappled with keeping the sides of an old Hornby D95, because I can't spray paint, and my old Hornby D95  is in the colours of my time period (1933 Single line and replace shirt button with crest).  I used the Comet aluminium roof, cut to size.  I noted that our other correspondents here can live with the old Hornby roof but I can't.  Cutting the old Hornby roof away from the sides was a nightmare.  I am an 'armchair-skilled' chap, but I managed it with very minor damage to the cant rails (sweated 2 kilos weight off), and the blemishes could be easily filled and the  underneath bit cantrail brush-painted.  Comet provide a download of the roof vents, etc positions and you can stick that to their roof to use as drill positions, as they advise.  I messed up the roof shaping slightly by the way, as I mistook how the bow end bows, but I can fill the error, pity though.

 

All the above applies just as much to an H33 as to a C54 or an E127, so I hope it's interesting.  Of course, you can buy the D95, E127 and C54 RTR now, but all the points are similar for  E128 and other 57 ft bow enders.  

Edited November 20, 2016 by HowardGWR

[Prometheus]

Those photos are brilliant John and they show just how well your Diner fits in there. As agreed by Howard, 'layout coaches' is what I aim for also.

 

On the corridor connections, I am going to use folded paper ones for the next conversion, the Ocean Mails coach. Again, I'll use a Hornby body, this time the Railroad Collett Brake. I have already modified the roof by removing the watertank from the passenger end but the build will have to wait for some other work to be finished before it proceeds further.

 

Howard - I thought about a Comet roof but doubted that I'd be able to remove the Hornby one satisfactorily and so gave it a miss. I also wondered whether it would be worth the effort: if one was going to use a Comet roof and sides, one might as well go all the way and use their ends too, dispensing with the Hornby body altogether ?

 

Tony

[81C]

I've enjoyed reading this thread it's good to see some quality cut and shut & superdetailing work, I know of several other members on the forum reworking these old Collett's when I acquired 12 new Hornby Collett's the old ones they were poor by comparison and only fit for the bin on seeing another Collett Coach thread earlier in the year I started to chop these old coaches about 4 are now full brakes 2x K38 & 2x K42 1 Brake comp' L/H E148 all were converted with Comet parts, the 3 H33 dinners I have being retained are to receive new buffers, corridor connectors, shell vents, hand rails, battery boxes and gas tanks a further 2 will end up as a brake comp' R/H E127 L/H E128, 2 all thirds C67's and the last 3 will be decided on after a bit of research I'm open to ideas.

[lofty1966]

The trick with removing the crappy Hornby Corridor connectors is to use Xuron snips (smaller than their track cutter) and cut the corners at the bottom and then about every 5 mm around it. Then cut away all the bits flush using the same snips.

Once thats done you can use a flat file to clean up the remainder.

One of my "light makeover" H33's

[lofty1966]

Missed these off previous posts . Oops

[Prometheus]

There seems to be quite an industry here !

 

Tony

[checkrail]

The trick with removing the crappy Hornby Corridor connectors is to use Xuron snips (smaller than their track cutter) and cut the corners at the bottom and then about every 5 mm around it. Then cut away all the bits flush using the same snips.

Once thats done you can use a flat file to clean up the remainder.

 

Thanks for this very useful tip.  Hadn't heard of Xuron snips until now, but will get some.  They sound ideal for all sorts of things.

 

Your pics show how much difference just a roof job (plus buffer heads and gangways) can make.  Good stuff. There's obviously a lot of 'Railroad' stuff out there that's not going to waste!

 

John C.

 

My layout: STOKE COURTENAY, 4mm scale 1930s GWR junction station.  See layout topic.

[HowardGWR]

Thanks for this very useful tip.  Hadn't heard of Xuron snips until now, but will get some.  They sound ideal for all sorts of things.

 

Your pics show how much difference just a roof job (plus buffer heads and gangways) can make.  Good stuff. There's obviously a lot of 'Railroad' stuff out there that's not going to waste!

 

John C.

 

My layout: STOKE COURTENAY, 4mm scale 1930s GWR junction station.  See layout topic.

Xuron snips, there seem to be a many sorts.  Which ones are you using Lofty1966.  Do you see it here?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=xuron+cutters&tag=googhydr-21&index=aps&hvadid=155843373288&hvpos=1t1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17031194377391389072&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045345&hvtargid=kwd-1423447949&ref=pd_sl_4m5bd8bbcm_b

[Prometheus]

Xurons are hugely useful for nibbling plastic but I also use much cheaper plastic shears from Squires - I seem to remember that they cost about a fiver. Probably have them at Warley this coming weekend. Absolutely brilliant for removing moulded roof vents, etc.

 

Tony

[HowardGWR]

Those photos are brilliant John and they show just how well your Diner fits in there. As agreed by Howard, 'layout coaches' is what I aim for also.

 

On the corridor connections, I am going to use folded paper ones for the next conversion, the Ocean Mails coach. Again, I'll use a Hornby body, this time the Railroad Collett Brake. I have already modified the roof by removing the watertank from the passenger end but the build will have to wait for some other work to be finished before it proceeds further.

 

Howard - I thought about a Comet roof but doubted that I'd be able to remove the Hornby one satisfactorily and so gave it a miss. I also wondered whether it would be worth the effort: if one was going to use a Comet roof and sides, one might as well go all the way and use their ends too, dispensing with the Hornby body altogether ?

 

Tony

Prometheus (Tony)  - I don't want to be a fraud.  I am still building it and no, I don't think this was the best plan.  I was already using Comet ends, but have had difficulty marrying up the sides to them, because the old Hornby sides don't have a sufficient tumble home on them to match the Comet ends (which is another error with what we now call the Railroad coaches).  In fact I wish I had kept the body shell intact and tackled the existing roof in another way.  Read on!

 

Once you have split out the components (see illustrations of those that you kindly provided earlier in thread) I am toying with the following.  I have another pre 'Railroad' Collett (E127) and I am going to keep the body shell intact this time.  What is wrong with the Railroad roof is simply that it does not curve gently around to the apex in an ellipse, but goes vertical, then a sharp bend and then flattens.  There is plenty of 'meat' in the roof, so what I am going to do is take a large file and take off that sharp bend to leave a shape that I can match to the Comet roof shape of an offcut that you end up with, after cutting the Comet roof to length.   I will lose all the roof detail after filing and rubbing smooth, which detail, as you pointed out, is all wrong in size anyway.  I will then affix the Comet download sheet to it and then drill positions for vents and affix new slender lines.

 

That would still leave the error in the tumblehome (not enough tumble) but this is hardly noticeable.  Anyone see a snag? :-)