Gresley Junction

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I think I spoke too soon...

Indeed. I went to see Hamilton yesterday afternoon which was excellent. When I got home at 10pm I tried and it was very slow. But it seems better this morning and I’ve managed to delete those duplicate posts.

 

I don’t have any new material, so I’ll shortly head into the loft to record some more.

Edited January 24, 2022 by thegreenhowards

[ROY@34F]

On 23/01/2022 at 10:55, thegreenhowards said:

Next train to feature is the up pick up goods headed by WD 2-8-0, 90428. I meant to take a picture of the train on the viaduct but seem to have only managed the video so you’ll have to look at that to see the whole train arriving.

 

Once it arrived at the station the rear of the train is left in the up lay back.

 

Once I got into the shunting, I realised that I hadn’t run the pick up since I ballasted the ‘pick up’ side of the station. One point was jammed solid even though I swear I checked them all after ballasting. And another had a broken wire from when I tidied up under the baseboard meaning it didn’t fire at all.

 

Anyway, after a days pause wile I sorted that out, the pick up duties were performed. Here it is picking up the empties.

 

 

Having dumped the empties back on the rest of the train in the layback, The full coal and vans/ open for the goods shed we’re then left

 

.and the train reassembled ready to depart from the up lay back siding.

 

The video shows the train crossing the viaduct and then one of the shunting moves. 

 

Any comments on the operating procudeures for the pick up would be appreciated.

 

PS. Sorry about the duplicate post yesterday. RMWeb seems to be running very slowly for me and I must have hit ‘post’ twice.     I will delete the duplicate when it speeds up.

 

 

 

I reckon you've got the wrong headcode for a pick up goods . It should have one lamp over one buffer , but I'm afraid to say I can't remember which side ! The headcode you have used is for a through frieght not calling en route ... or something worded like that .

 

    Regards , Roy.

[thegreenhowards]

12 minutes ago, ROY@34F said:

I reckon you've got the wrong headcode for a pick up goods . It should have one lamp over one buffer , but I'm afraid to say I can't remember which side ! The headcode you have used is for a through frieght not calling en route ... or something worded like that .

 

    Regards , Roy.

Roy,

 

Normally I’d agree with you. Class K is the classic branch pick up good with a lamp over the right buffer (as you look at it head on). However, the WTT for Peterborough- London seems to show the pick up goods as a Class H as I’ve shown it. This helps me as it’s the same head code as the mineral trains so I can get away with gluing them on!

 

I may be wrong so if anyone has definitive evidence to the contrary, please shout.

 

Andy

 

 

[john new]

On 24/01/2022 at 17:57, ROY@34F said:

I reckon you've got the wrong headcode for a pick up goods . It should have one lamp over one buffer , but I'm afraid to say I can't remember which side ! The headcode you have used is for a through frieght not calling en route ... or something worded like that .

 

    Regards , Roy.

Which brings us to the nub of the whole lamps issue. Leave them off, completely wrong but universally so. Put them on and you risk getting the following and/or the above dilemma:-

Several years ago we were operating the late Mike Cook’s Ashburton layout at a show and one of his prairies was constantly derailing. He was on a break so we (the two of us running it) swapped it out for his spare one to keep to the layout sequence. To be honest, no we didn’t look at the lamps, but the only observation they were wrong was from Mike when he got back. The dilemma, should we have missed that train out of the sequence (to keep lamping correct) or run a wrong lamped up loco?

 

There are times when slavishly following absolute fidelity can get in the way. 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by john new

[ROY@34F]

On 24/01/2022 at 18:13, thegreenhowards said:

Roy,

 

Normally I’d agree with you. Class K is the classic branch pick up good with a lamp over the right buffer (as you look at it head on). However, the WTT for Peterborough- London seems to show the pick up goods as a Class H as I’ve shown it. This helps me as it’s the same head code as the mineral trains so I can get away with gluing them on!

 

I may be wrong so if anyone has definitive evidence to the contrary, please shout.

 

Andy

 

 

I apologise Andy , I thought you had mentioned that train was a pick up goods . Class H through from one place to another is quite right as you say , if it does'nt stop to pick up en route . But for the WWT to call it a pick up just seems a bit odd to me with that headcode . 

 

Regards , Roy

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, john new said:

Which brings us to the nub of the whole lamps issue. Leave them off, completely wrong but universally so. Put them on and you risk getting the following and/or the above dilemma:-

Several years ago we were operating the late Mike Cook’s Ashburton layout at a show and one of his prairies was constantly derailing. He was on a break so we (the two of us running it) swapped it out for his spare one to keep to the layout sequence. To be honest, no we didn’t look at the lamps, but the only observation they were wrong was from Mike when he got back. The dilemma, should we have missed that train out of the sequence (to keep lamping correct) or run a wrong lamped up loco?

 

There are times when slavishly following absolute fidelity can get in the way. 

 

 

 

I think a loco with no lamps looks naked, so I’d rather have the wrong lamps than none at all. But i do agree that slavish fidelity gets in the way - look no further than the whole coupling debate! However, I do like constructive criticism on here and I welcome debates about which lamps are right as that is how one learns

 

2 hours ago, ROY@34F said:

I apologise Andy , I thought you had mentioned that train was a pick up goods . Class H through from one place to another is quite right as you say , if it does'nt stop to pick up en route . But for the WWT to call it a pick up just seems a bit odd to me with that headcode . 

 

Regards , Roy

As above, please don’t apologise Roy. I find this train a bit strange so its interesting to discuss which lamps it should have. We all know a pick up on a branch line is the one lamp code K. But a pick up on the mainline seems to be different according to the WTT. I’ll change them if anyone can produce photographic evidence!

[thegreenhowards]

I did manage a couple of hours running in the loft on Monday but since then Ive been too busy to post anything. Anyway, here is the first move of Monday’s session - N7, 69637 arriving on the branch train, a D210 artic twin.

 

 

here it is after arriving.

 

…and waiting to depart having run round.

 

 

The video shows the departure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by thegreenhowards

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, ROY@34F said:

I apologise Andy , I thought you had mentioned that train was a pick up goods . Class H through from one place to another is quite right as you say , if it does'nt stop to pick up en route . But for the WWT to call it a pick up just seems a bit odd to me with that headcode . 

 

Regards , Roy

 

3 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

As above, please don’t apologise Roy. I find this train a bit strange so its interesting to discuss which lamps it should have. We all know a pick up on a branch line is the one lamp code K. But a pick up on the mainline seems to be different according to the WTT. I’ll change them if anyone can produce photographic evidence!

I've never seen the term "pick up goods" in any WTT. Classifications were (are) all based on running speed and point-to-point times. Perhaps this one only stopped at some, not all, intermediate stations and so was timed (and classified) to run under H not K lamps.

[great northern]

11 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

 

I've never seen the term "pick up goods" in any WTT. Classifications were (are) all based on running speed and point-to-point times. Perhaps this one only stopped at some, not all, intermediate stations and so was timed (and classified) to run under H not K lamps.

It could stop at any station between Peterborough and London, but there must have been days when there was no traffic at some places, and that would be known in advance? I can't remember seeing a photo of a goods with Class K lamps in any of my books.

[thegreenhowards]

22 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

 

I've never seen the term "pick up goods" in any WTT. Classifications were (are) all based on running speed and point-to-point times. Perhaps this one only stopped at some, not all, intermediate stations and so was timed (and classified) to run under H not K lamps.

I think that my 1953 wtt shows two New England to Ferme Park ‘pick up’ goods trains. One stopping at the more northern stations and the other at the more southern ones. I’m away at present so can’t check but will report back in due course. That would fit with John’s theory above.

[thegreenhowards]

Next up in the sequence is a down parcels and I decided that this would be a good train for my new A2 to debut on.

I bought 60528 from ‘sir’ when I visited last summer. It’s a nicely built DJH A2 with a Portescap and runs very well. I’ve only recently chipped it so it hasn’t had much running and it promptly derailed at several points. This turned out to be the water scoop on the bottom of the tender hitting part of the point. I filed 1mm off the scoop and all is now fine. But another example of how a layout needs to be used and tested if it’s to run reliably.

 

here is the video.

 

 

[great northern]

On 26/01/2022 at 23:33, St Enodoc said:

 

I've never seen the term "pick up goods" in any WTT. Classifications were (are) all based on running speed and point-to-point times. Perhaps this one only stopped at some, not all, intermediate stations and so was timed (and classified) to run under H not K lamps.

I've now found my 1956 Goods WTT. There is a seperate table for  "Details of Stopping services- New England to East Goods."

 

This shows a train leaving Peterborough Spital at 0732, running non stop to Hitchin, and thence stopping everywhere except Welwyn North, which was "as required". This is shown as Class H leaving Peterborough, but that the headcode changes en route. I surmise that would be a change to K from Hitchin onwards. The next train leaves Peterborough at 0640 and stops everywhere as far as Hitchin, then non stop to Ferme Park. That is shown as K from Peterborough, but again with a note that the code changes en route. A change to H from Hitchin would be logical. Finally, a train leaving Peterborough at 1050, and stopping everywhere except Holme. This one is shown terminating at Hitchin at 1802, and running Class K throughout.

 

My conclusion is that there were indeed stopping goods that ran Class K for part or all of their journey. It occurs to me that most of the photos I have seen were taken on the approaches to London, and so it is quite likely that the part of their journey which is recorded is that where the code has been changed to H.

[thegreenhowards]

On 28/01/2022 at 19:50, great northern said:

I've now found my 1956 Goods WTT. There is a seperate table for  "Details of Stopping services- New England to East Goods."

 

This shows a train leaving Peterborough Spital at 0732, running non stop to Hitchin, and thence stopping everywhere except Welwyn North, which was "as required". This is shown as Class H leaving Peterborough, but that the headcode changes en route. I surmise that would be a change to K from Hitchin onwards. The next train leaves Peterborough at 0640 and stops everywhere as far as Hitchin, then non stop to Ferme Park. That is shown as K from Peterborough, but again with a note that the code changes en route. A change to H from Hitchin would be logical. Finally, a train leaving Peterborough at 1050, and stopping everywhere except Holme. This one is shown terminating at Hitchin at 1802, and running Class K throughout.

 

My conclusion is that there were indeed stopping goods that ran Class K for part or all of their journey. It occurs to me that most of the photos I have seen were taken on the approaches to London, and so it is quite likely that the part of their journey which is recorded is that where the code has been changed to H.

Thanks for that Gilbert. I’m now home but still can’t find my 1953 WTT but what you have said all makes sense. It looks like I can either run my pick up as a class H or K - the former if it runs through non stop and the latter if it shunts the yard. It looks like Roy was right for the way I ran it this time.

 

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

This is the final train which I can run from my fiddle yard with no use of cassettes/ off layout storage. And what better to finish the sequence off that the loco which was the forerunner of the greatest class of all time, none other than DELTIC.

 

 

Here she is on her normal turn in the Summer of 1959 - the 1230 Hull- KX.

 

The video shows a similar view - an all mark 1 set apart from a Gresley tourist buffet.

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

Duplicate post.

Edited January 30, 2022 by thegreenhowards

[thegreenhowards]

Duplicate (triplicate?) post.

Edited January 30, 2022 by thegreenhowards

[thegreenhowards]

Havining finished the sequence, I thought I’d show a few shots of the engine room (pun intended!) which is my fiddle yard.
 

First, here is the end leading to the station.

This shows the end of the 16 through roads and a couple of dead ends where the pick up goods and an outer suburban rake live. The N7 is on the road for the branch train and uses two coaches off the back of another outer suburban rake. The lower baseboard strip on the right is for cassettes.

Second picture is of the main through roads of which there are 16 containing 21 trains with a few doubled up. 

The nearest one is kept free in case I want to run anything from a cassette. A4 storage on the ramp above the tracks.

 

Thirdly, this is the corner of the fiddle yard.

This is where the outer tracks spread out. A1 and A2 storage is above the tracks.

 

And finally, we have the corner leading onto the viaduct where the inner tracks converge.

This includes four dead ends on the outer and two on the inner. The inner ones are a bit short and currently only store one of the two inner suburban rakes. The final three trains are in the station - loaded gas trip, F2/push pull and the Mk1 inner suburban.

Other locos are stored in trays or draws with some on their trains in the cassettes. 

All together, I think I ran 32 trains in that sequence, not bad from one fiddle yard. My next task is to run them all again and see how many misbehave this time!

 

 

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

29 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Havining finished the sequence, I thought I’d show a few shots of the engine room (pun intended!) which is my fiddle yard.
 

First, here is the end leading to the station.

This shows the end of the 16 through roads and a couple of dead ends where the pick up goods and an outer suburban rake live. The N7 is on the road for the branch train and uses two coaches off the back of another outer suburban rake. The lower baseboard strip on the right is for cassettes.

Second picture is of the main through roads of which there are 16 containing 21 trains with a few doubled up. 

The nearest one is kept free in case I want to run anything from a cassette. A4 storage on the ramp above the tracks.

 

Thirdly, this is the corner of the fiddle yard.

This is where the outer tracks spread out. A1 and A2 storage is above the tracks.

 

And finally, we have the corner leading onto the viaduct where the inner tracks converge.

This includes four dead ends on the outer and two on the inner. The inner ones are a bit short and currently only store one of the two inner suburban rakes. The final three trains are in the station - loaded gas trip, F2/push pull and the Mk1 inner suburban.

Other locos are stored in trays or draws with some on their trains in the cassettes. 

All together, I think I ran 32 trains in that sequence, not bad from one fiddle yard. My next task is to run them all again and see how many misbehave this time!

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Andy. I do enjoy a look behind the scenes.

[davidw]

If I ever get my layout finished (long story) I think i'll be able to handle 30 complete trains. Like most people i've got far more locos than stock. Which A4's do you have?

 

And just to digress - any idea when that formations article will appear?

Edited January 31, 2022 by davidw
add question

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Thanks Andy. I do enjoy a look behind the scenes.

I agree. That’s where the sexy bits live! At exhibitions I often have a peep at the fiddle yard early on in viewing a layout to see if there’s anything worth waiting to see.

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, davidw said:

If I ever get my layout finished (long story) I think i'll be able to handle 30 complete trains. Like most people i've got far more locos than stock. Which A4's do you have?

1, 7, 9 (my fav), 13, 20, 21, 29, 33 (and 700?!). All Hornby except 33 which is Wills on Hornby chassis. 700 is a Graeme King conversion.

 

 

2 hours ago, davidw said:

 

And just to digress - any idea when that formations article will appear?

 

I’m told May 2021 but I haven’t seen any drafts from them yet so I’m not banking on it.

[Sandhole]

On 30/01/2022 at 16:51, thegreenhowards said:

This is the final train which I can run from my fiddle yard with no use of cassettes/ off layout storage. And what better to finish the sequence off that the loco which was the forerunner of the greatest class of all time, none other than DELTIC.

 

 

Here she is on her normal turn in the Summer of 1959 - the 1230 Hull- KX.

 

The video shows a similar view - an all mark 1 set apart from a Gresley tourist buffet.

 

 

Two Baby Deltics and two cursed North British Bo Bos?
The poor shed foreman has got his hands full.
Great videos as always,
Regards,
Chris.

[thegreenhowards]

4 hours ago, Sandhole said:

Two Baby Deltics and two cursed North British Bo Bos?
The poor shed foreman has got his hands full.
Great videos as always,
Regards,
Chris.

One's a Class 20. You can't say anything bad about them!

[Sandhole]

On 02/02/2022 at 15:10, thegreenhowards said:

One's a Class 20. You can't say anything bad about them!

Very True!

[thegreenhowards]

Gresley Jn hasn’t seen much use recently as I’ve been concentrating on my garden O gauge during the warmer months. However, last week the postman brought a nice package in the shape of an Accurascale Deltic ordered over three years ago (at Ally Pally pre Covid). First impressions were very good. The packaging is impressive, if bulky, and the detail on the loco is a cut above other RTR versions. I had one bogie chain loose which had to be glued back but otherwise it was in immaculate condition. 
 

Having run it in on the rolling road, I gave it a run on the up Tees Tyne Pullman this morning. They have captured the Deltic drone well and I think it sounds magnificent under power. There does seem to be a bit of a rattle as it slows down (evident on the video) which I think may be the speaker cone rattling against something. I will have to investigate. He is the video so you can appreciate the sound.

 

 

I will now add all the extra detail, investigate the speaker and need to decide which train to allocate it to permanently as it’s prodigious pulling power seems wasted on an 8 coach Pullman! More photos in due course. 
 

Andy