GER 10T Goods Van announced!

[Bishdurham]

I also accepted to price rise from Rails, but I make no assumptions. :-)

[The Johnster]

Firstly, thanks as always to Jennyy for a very good and informative video with no carpets or opinions about manufacturers, good lighting, camera bringing out the detail I look for; pretty much as good as seeing one in the shop!  Mine's on order from Rails, BR grey ventilated unfitted, and I'm looking 4ward to it's arrival.  As The Jenster says, a mucky wash will bring out the planking excellently.  It might actually be my last purchase of a general merchandise goods vehicle, as Cwmdimbath already has plenty and a good variety, but this is the sort of statement that usually ends up as another paving stone on the road to hell, where it's cold because you can't get near the fire for engine drivers, so don't hold me to it!  The 10'6" wheelbase will be an added variety, and the difference it makes to the proportions of the van is noticeable/

 

Ok, now I know I should know the answer to this but my poor little head gets a bit wobbly and uncertain sometimes because my memory is becoming unreliable (don't laugh, you'll be old and useless as well one day), and I need to clarify.  The question is about works plates; surely a GE van would carry GE plates thoughout its life, even if it ended up in departmental service, showing the original company, original running number, and build location and date.  But the LNER livery vans have LNER plates and the BR ones have BR plates, I suspect printed on.  Not going to spoil my enjoyment of the model, but it's niggling at me a little...

[31A]

21 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Firstly, thanks as always to Jennyy for a very good and informative video with no carpets or opinions about manufacturers, good lighting, camera bringing out the detail I look for; pretty much as good as seeing one in the shop!  Mine's on order from Rails, BR grey ventilated unfitted, and I'm looking 4ward to it's arrival.  As The Jenster says, a mucky wash will bring out the planking excellently.  It might actually be my last purchase of a general merchandise goods vehicle, as Cwmdimbath already has plenty and a good variety, but this is the sort of statement that usually ends up as another paving stone on the road to hell, where it's cold because you can't get near the fire for engine drivers, so don't hold me to it!  The 10'6" wheelbase will be an added variety, and the difference it makes to the proportions of the van is noticeable/

 

Ok, now I know I should know the answer to this but my poor little head gets a bit wobbly and uncertain sometimes because my memory is becoming unreliable (don't laugh, you'll be old and useless as well one day), and I need to clarify.  The question is about works plates; surely a GE van would carry GE plates thoughout its life, even if it ended up in departmental service, showing the original company, original running number, and build location and date.  But the LNER livery vans have LNER plates and the BR ones have BR plates, I suspect printed on.  Not going to spoil my enjoyment of the model, but it's niggling at me a little...

 

Pretty sure the LNER replaced the plates on the wagons it inherited, to reflect the new number that the wagon carried after the post-Grouping renumbering.  I must admit I was surprised to see that the BR version has a BR numberplate; I didn't realise that happened and have memories of seeing LNER plates with just the letter 'E' picked out in white on ex LNER wagons in BR days.

 

[The Johnster]

That's what I thought I remembered, seeing vehicles with GW, Southern, LNER and of course LMS plates, and even one SE&CR, but couldn't quite pin it down in my head.  Of course, if a wagon was renumberd it would have to have a new plate, which explains the LNER Ox van, but the BR should have an LNER plate, since TTBOMK there was no renumbering between LNER and BR ownership, possibly with the L, N, and R painted out which would be hard to represent on a printed plate and I'm not about to be demanding full relief plating (don't google that whatever you do!) at this price...

 

Tx for putting the mortal remains of my brain at rest, Steve!

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Firstly, thanks as always to Jennyy for a very good and informative video with no carpets or opinions about manufacturers, good lighting, camera bringing out the detail I look for; pretty much as good as seeing one in the shop!  Mine's on order from Rails, BR grey ventilated unfitted, and I'm looking 4ward to it's arrival.  As The Jenster says, a mucky wash will bring out the planking excellently.  It might actually be my last purchase of a general merchandise goods vehicle, as Cwmdimbath already has plenty and a good variety, but this is the sort of statement that usually ends up as another paving stone on the road to hell, where it's cold because you can't get near the fire for engine drivers, so don't hold me to it!  The 10'6" wheelbase will be an added variety, and the difference it makes to the proportions of the van is noticeable/

 

Ok, now I know I should know the answer to this but my poor little head gets a bit wobbly and uncertain sometimes because my memory is becoming unreliable (don't laugh, you'll be old and useless as well one day), and I need to clarify.  The question is about works plates; surely a GE van would carry GE plates thoughout its life, even if it ended up in departmental service, showing the original company, original running number, and build location and date.  But the LNER livery vans have LNER plates and the BR ones have BR plates, I suspect printed on.  Not going to spoil my enjoyment of the model, but it's niggling at me a little...

I don't know of any specific examples, but I have a vague recollection of reading somewhere that in the early years after nationalisation, BR produced replacement plates for wagons selected for retention, but from which the originals had gone missing. Over-zealous wartime metal salvagers perhaps?

 

John

Edited January 29, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[The Johnster]

Or, as they were otherwise known, thieving b*stards.  This hadn't occurred to me but would explain matters enough for me to be a bit more relaxed about the Oxford model...

[Dominion]

I have been looking in Tatlow volume 1 while I wait for arrival in Canada.

I see a total of 90 of the existing diagram 47 and 72 vans were converted to “improvised insulated vans without meat hooks.”

 

I am wondering what external or livery differences that would have lead to. Might they (deleted) look a bit like the banana van, but without steam heating?  I can’t  find any pictures or descriptors yet, and any pointers welcome.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Dominion
Deleted idea about outside framed doors

[Wickham Green too]

15 hours ago, The Johnster said:

..... surely a GE van would carry GE plates thoughout its life, .....

As others have said a changed number ( specifically at grouping ) ought to warrant a new plate ...... the Southern being particularly frugal actually kept the old plate but bolted on inside out with the new number simply painted on what had been the back !

[Dominion]

The extra Morton clutch now removed from this side of the van. 

More detailed pictures on the banana van thread.

[Jammy2305]

My efforts with these vans thus far:

 

 

The left hand van has had a chassis swap with a banana van to give it the correct brake arrangement to become a fitted vent van with red end panels. The solebar has been repainted the correct French Grey and the ends have been painted into the correct Slate Grey (as the shade used on the ends by Oxford is too light).

 

The right hand van has retained it's identity but has had it's solebar repainted French Grey, with the transfer for the running number carefully painted around to preserve it. The ends have also been repainted in the correct Slate Grey shade. The additional Morton clutch on the other side has been corrected.

 

Both wagons have had additional weight added inside to bring them up to approximately 40g each.

 

- James

Edited February 7, 2022 by jamesC37LG
Additional info

[Nile]

Very nice, what paints did you use?

[Compound2632]

9 hours ago, jamesC37LG said:

The left hand van has had a chassis swap with a banana van to give it the correct brake arrangement to become a fitted vent van with red end panels. ... 

 

The right hand van ... The additional Morton clutch on the other side has been corrected.

 

Nicely done. I wrote a little essay on the brakes on Tony Wright's thread, since he expressed his ignorance as to what was wrong. (Now if it had been an East Coast pacific! Everyone has their specialisms.) He didn't thank me so I'll link to it here so that it may not be seed on barren ground:

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Compound2632
sp.

[Dominion]

Thanks Compound, I wish I had read that about the action on the real caliper brakes being pull rods before my first swap on the Banana van :-) 

 

We should not blame it on poor or inconsistent assembly though, it is baked into the design.

There is an integrated component on the general van that is the V hanger, one brake push rod, one brake shoe & hanger, and the stay.  That includes the "boss" of the Morton clutch inline with the cross shaft and just above it includes a molded pin that the separate brake lever attaches too. That integrated component is NOT the the same on both sides. (That was incorrect, they are different on both sides as one push rod is above and one is below as pointed out below by Flying Pig in the post below, but the lever mounting pin is still above the shaft on both sides)

 

There wont be any randomness in how they are assembled, they will all be like the few photos that have been posted so far, 2 Morton sides on the General van, 2 non Morton sides on he banana van. No need to search physical store inventory for one that happens to be right !

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Dominion
Correcting error about the moldings being the same

[Dominion]

12 hours ago, jamesC37LG said:

My efforts with these vans thus far:

 

 

The left hand van has had a chassis swap with a banana van to give it the correct brake arrangement to become a fitted vent van with red end panels. The solebar has been repainted the correct French Grey and the ends have been painted into the correct Slate Grey (as the shade used on the ends by Oxford is too light).

 

The right hand van has retained it's identity but has had it's solebar repainted French Grey, with the transfer for the running number carefully painted around to preserve it. The ends have also been repainted in the correct Slate Grey shade. The additional Morton clutch on the other side has been corrected.

 

Both wagons have had additional weight added inside to bring them up to approximately 40g each.

 

- James

 

They look very good James, well done.

Like Nile I would like to know which paints you used, especially the French Grey as it seems to match well.

I would also like to add a little weight to mine too. Any pointers on how the body comes off ?

Thanks, Tom

[Flying Pig]

28 minutes ago, Dominion said:

We should not blame it on poor or inconsistent assembly though, it is baked into the design.

There is an integrated component on the general van that is the V hanger, one brake push rod, one brake shoe, and the stay.  That includes the "boss" of the Morton clutch inline with the cross shaft and just above it includes a molded pin that the separate brake lever attaches too. That integrated component is the same on both sides

 

An interesting insight for those of us who don't yet have the model.  But surely one pushrod is over and the other under*, so there must be two different mouldings?  If so one is correct and the other not (and mechanically impossible).

 

 

Edit - or were you talking about the clasp-breaked underframe?  I was thinking of the GER 2 shoe version.

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Flying Pig
Confusion

[Dominion]

Oh yes you are quite right. The push rod locations are different as they should be. I had noticed that yesterday when I modified the brake lever attachment position on the non morton side. However I forgot that I suspect searching for a reason for the error.

Both sides do have the pin for the brake lever above the lower half of the Morton clutch. Even more curious.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Dominion
Attempted clarity

[Flying Pig]

3 minutes ago, Dominion said:

Oh yes you are quite right. They are different.

Both sides do have the pin for the brake lever above the lower half of the Morton clutch. Even more curious.

 

Not really - minor design smeg-ups in otherwise nice models seem to be an Oxford Rail speciality,  whether it's not quite understanding the prototype or making a muddle of variation.  At least this time it's easily fixable if it bothers you.

[Dominion]

Agree, I should thank them really as they are very nice models and each time they do this I learn a bit more about how the real wagons worked, eventually :-) 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Dominion
Added "eventually :-)"

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, Dominion said:

 

They look very good James, well done.

Like Nile I would like to know which paints you used, especially the French Grey as it seems to match well.

I would also like to add a little weight to mine too. Any pointers on how the body comes off ?

Thanks, Tom

I haven't yet had these in my hand (I'm awaiting the BR versions), but going on previous Oxford wagons, you will first need to pull out the buffer heads.

 

If that alone doesn't release the chassis from the body, it may also be secured by the screws that hold the NEM coupler mounts in place. 

 

A tag on the back of the brake lever rack is glued into a hole in the solebar, which is part of the body shell but generally prises out easily.

 

IGNORE ALL THE ABOVE, OXFORD HAS DONE THESE DIFFERENTLY< SEE LATER POSTS.

 

John

Edited February 8, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Jammy2305]

5 hours ago, Nile said:

Very nice, what paints did you use?

 

Phoenix Precision 'GER Light Freight Grey', 'GER Freight Dark Grey' and 'Buffer Beam Vermilion'

[Jammy2305]

1 hour ago, Dominion said:

 

They look very good James, well done.

Like Nile I would like to know which paints you used, especially the French Grey as it seems to match well.

I would also like to add a little weight to mine too. Any pointers on how the body comes off ?

Thanks, Tom

 

Thank you!

 

I used Phoenix Precision's 'GER Light Freight Grey' which is, as you say, a near perfect match to the shade used by Oxford.

 

As for body removal, turn the wagon over and pop a scalpel blade (or something equally thin) between the body and the solebar. Gently prize the body out and the two locating lugs should pop free. It's really straight forward and the bodies just clip back on when you reassemble them.

 

Hope this helps

 

- James

[Jammy2305]

21 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

I haven't yet had these in my hand (I'm awaiting the BR versions), but going on previous Oxford wagons, you will first need to pull out the buffer heads.

 

If that alone doesn't release the chassis from the body, it may also be secured by the screws that hold the NEM coupler mounts in place. 

 

A tag on the back of the brake lever rack is glued into a hole in the solebar, which is part of the body shell but generally prises out easily.

 

John

 

These vans are different insofar as there is no need to remove buffers and there are no screws to undo. The body simply clips on and can be released gently with a scalpel. 

 

- James

[Dominion]

I notice Hattons had some GE livery vans and Banana vans back in stock yesterday, 10 or more of each. The banana vans have already sold out again, but there are some GE vans still available.

[The Johnster]

Waiting for BR version, but all the info here is useful, and is encouraging me to do nothing to mine when it arrives (Rails pre-order) except a light muckwash to take the new off.  As I need to cut my spending, this could well be my last goods rolling stock purchase for a while, as I have plenty to run the traffic and provide reasonable variety.  Could do with maybe a couple more toads, but beyond that I won’t be buying much more RTR of any sort unless new models appear. 
 

Yeah, right…

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, jamesC37LG said:

 

These vans are different insofar as there is no need to remove buffers and there are no screws to undo. The body simply clips on and can be released gently with a scalpel. 

 

- James

That'll save a lot of messing about looking for the fourth buffer head, thanks for the heads up.

 

John