Popular Post hayfield Posted January 6, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 6, 2022 (edited) The photo on this book first grabbed my attention, whilst I am interested in things at the western end of the country I moved into GER territory nearly 6 years ago. and have been interested in Maldon's lost railways Being a track builder this formation is quite interesting and I had a small but growing collection of GER and industrial locos looking for a home, this short extension looked a good starting point for a small cameo layout. I made space in my room to explore the options for the layout, most of last year I was in a position where mostly it was just thinking about it and obtaining parts I might be able to use. The first thing was to get a rough plan of the track work using Templot and but some items for a dry run Not as easy as you think, the initial baseboard (an off cut) proved too limiting and my vechial collection increased In the end I got a few more warehouse kits and Wills viaduct parts simply to work out options and sizes The area I think is long gone, few photos so its not going to be a replica of, but an interpretation of a part of London's docklands, Peabody's housing will be replaced by a warehouse, the road layout altered and certainly the left foreground nothing like reality, its a layout to display/use my stock and vehicles As for the layout there will be a storage yard at each end I am a little further on with this project as the photos take work up to Christmas, track building has commenced Edited August 7, 2022 by hayfield 20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampy Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 IIRC Iain Rice based a small layout on this goods station in his "Designs for Urban Layouts". Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 18 minutes ago, swampy said: IIRC Iain Rice based a small layout on this goods station in his "Designs for Urban Layouts". Pete Pete Thanks, it would be nice to see Iain's version, mine is still in embryo form at the moment. The warehoused kits will be well and truly kit bashed, It will be more to giving an impression and scenic breaks than prototypical 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multigauge Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Great photo of the track work and nice to see examples of inset track without check rails; I hadn't bothered to add any to Sarf London sidings (I like the idea of building my own track, but I'm not convinced I have the ability/time/patience) but have often wondered if I really should've to be a bit more prototypical. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the build and in particular the buildings. I think the kits you have are a really good base and have you some on mine, although I am already thinking of rebuilding/bashing mine in to something more parochial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampy Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 4 hours ago, hayfield said: Pete Thanks, it would be nice to see Iain's version, mine is still in embryo form at the moment. The warehoused kits will be well and truly kit bashed, It will be more to giving an impression and scenic breaks than prototypical I googled Shadwell Basin and found a plan here---> trainsonline from 2003 HTH Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted January 6, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2022 This looks good, the curved approach on a viaduct, and a bit different to around Maldon. Plus a Barry slip... Will follow with interest. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 3 hours ago, Multigauge said: Great photo of the track work and nice to see examples of inset track without check rails; I hadn't bothered to add any to Sarf London sidings (I like the idea of building my own track, but I'm not convinced I have the ability/time/patience) but have often wondered if I really should've to be a bit more prototypical. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the build and in particular the buildings. I think the kits you have are a really good base and have you some on mine, although I am already thinking of rebuilding/bashing mine in to something more parochial. Thanks for the nice comments Building the track building is quite simple, as the track bed is elevated and condensed I made it from a piece of plastic soffit. topped with thin cork, then the plan was glued down, The timbers and sleepers were then stuck to the board, I even decided to simplify the turnout construction. I will elaborate over the next few days The warehouse kits are scratch aids which will be kit bashed, this will be in the age old tradition of make it up as I go 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 3 hours ago, swampy said: I googled Shadwell Basin and found a plan here---> trainsonline from 2003 HTH Pete Swampy Thanks for the link I have printed out the page and will enlarge it as study, this branch is a bit further down the line. The section I am basing the model on was built and owned by the Port of london but operated by the GER into St Katherines Dock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 2 hours ago, Izzy said: This looks good, the curved approach on a viaduct, and a bit different to around Maldon. Plus a Barry slip... Will follow with interest. Bob Bob thanks, as you say Maldon East was very flat, and Maldon West was in a cutting Its a sort of Barry slip, but I may be wrong but I think of it as a bit different. A Barry slip has always been on my agenda and the more I think of it perhaps it is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted January 7, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) On 06/01/2022 at 22:47, hayfield said: Bob thanks, as you say Maldon East was very flat, and Maldon West was in a cutting Its a sort of Barry slip, but I may be wrong but I think of it as a bit different. A Barry slip has always been on my agenda and the more I think of it perhaps it is I know it's a bit off (this) topic but if you haven't seen/got these little paperbacks they are well worth seeking out if you can find them. Mine are now well worn secondhand copies ( obtained in the '80's) as you can no doubt see. The Maldon bypass of course now runs on the trackbeds of the Maldon East branches to Witham & Woodham Ferrers. This book cover picture was ISTR discussed in another thread quite a while back I think with regard to someone thinking of doing a micro in 2FS and the question of this pointwork arose. I am sure it was eventually decided it was a Barry slip. It certainly looks to be one to my mind. Just two same-handed opposing turnouts overlaid within each other. From a quick glance they always look like a double slip. Quite why it was used here I can't work out given the double track approach from the Fenchurch St line. But it does make a very nice feature. Bob Edited April 3, 2022 by Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) These next two photos show how the plan has developed, during this time there was a road junction under the arches which meant 2 tiebars would be within the bridge section. After measuring both the Wills Viaduct sections and Vary girder bridge I worked out I had 15mm clearance for the trackwork and what ever method of turnout operation I used. Clearly the point motors would have to be within the embankment, and some form of extended crank would be needed. After some thought I am altering the road layout and its about time I learnt how to use servos After chatting the problem of the track bed with a few friends, one jokingly suggested plastic. This was the answer, I had some plastic soffit board which is very light, 6mm thick and more than rigid enough for a supported track bed. The piece I had was 8" wide and the plan fitted perfectly on to it. Its light as a feather and at the moment is just one long building board. I had the track plan on a cardboard former so this was used to mark out the shape, and was easy to cut to shape with a jigsaw. 1/16" cork sheet was stuck on top with Evostik (spray) using it as an impact adhesive, the same glue was used to stick the Templot templates to the board, but this time wet Turnout timbers are Exactoscale, The reasons are they are good value having 60 timbers but you can get between 2 and 3 turnouts pre sprue and the longest ones can stretch across 2 tracks With C&L thick EM gauge flexitrack not available yet I have these Exactoscale track panels in stock, they come in 2 30' panels with a 12" sleeper at one end. Its an expensive way of track building but you do get chairs with keys, plus the eagle eyed will see the track is in panels with joins. Also its a small 4' long layout Over the years I have collected and saved items, I have a big bundle of old but unused rail 50cm long, Its ordinary nickelsilver not HiNi and not drawn quite as crisply as it is these days. It cleaned up well. Also I have saved used Exactoscale switch sprues, as they have left over half chairs On the left are the outer chair halves, on the right inner chair halves and some odd centre parts of block chairs, the longer ones can be cut to size and used So with these parts which really cost me nothing can be used rather than discarded Its good to be doing something with this idea which has been developing for many months. I blame Templot Club for this one as I believe I first came across the photo over a year ago on a thread there Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 31 minutes ago, Izzy said: I know it's a bit off (this) topic but if you haven't seen/got these little paperbacks they are well worth seeking out if you can find them. Mine are now well worn secondhand copies ( obtained in the '80's) as you can no doubt see. The Maldon bypass of course now runs on the trackbeds of the Maldon East branches to Witham & Woodham Ferrers. This book cover picture was ISTR discussed in another thread quite a while back I think with regard to someone thinking of doing a micro in 2FS and the question of this pointwork arose. I am sure it was eventually decided it was a Barry slip. It certainly looks to be one to my mind. Just two same-handed opposing turnouts overlaid within each other. From a quick glance they always look like a double slip. Quite why it was used here I can't work out given the double track approach from the Fenchurch St line. But it does make a very nice feature. Bob Bob Nothing wrong with a bit of thread creep into another subject A friend of mine lent be 2 books about the 2 lines (these are probably them) Like most railway modellers I keep looking for any railway related items, the old bridge walls after the fire station over what was the cutting for Maldon West station I pass regularly, and I have had a look at the Goods shed which now houses a micro brewery. Also I have looked up Maldon East station (near Liddle's) and the station canopy now has been turned into another building. I have saved a copy of the OS maps in Templot for both stations, I doubt if I will ever use them, but it seemed a good idea There is also a film on You tube of the station I have seen that is very enlightening 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) I forgot to add that I stuck the Timbers and sleeper frets with a product by Loctite 60 second all purpose glue. I went out to the shops looking for a tube of Evo/Bostik in the end I bought this modern glue which turned out to be excellent. The timbers were cut from the fret, some were cut to size You will notice the track panels are not of a flexitrack style, laying straight is a doddle, for curved trackwork cut out the webs on the inside of the curve, simply glue the under side and lay in position. Normally its cheaper buying yard/meter lengths of flexitrack, but I had all the components so I just used up existing materials. Do take the time to understand what track you are using, especially with smaller layouts. Peco now sell an 00 gauge track with their new bullhead track, bit the chairs have no key's. Exactoscale Fastrack bases are in 60' panels but have no keys. The latest C&L flexitrack now has a thicker track base, key's in the chairs, 60' panels with 12" sleepers at both ends and now available in 00, EM & P4 gauges Too many folk are put off by others saying how hard track building is, which in my opinion is not true. I am hoping to prove the opposite over the coming days, showing how easy it is to use the plastic chaired track method. Now I will show you an easy method of making a common crossing. First off obtain a decent plan, You will not find better ones than those you can make very easily with Templot First up you need to file up 2 pieces of rail to form a vee, I now use jigs for speed and accuracy, but like many before me I started off using simple home made jigs, in this case coffee stirrers. Just use a normal file and use this jig as a template to get the correct angle, file the leading one first, once that is correct file the second rail, once both rails are filed to the correct angle the jig can be used to hold the rails in place whilst soldering. Next up I have soldered a piece of 0.6 mm copper clad to the vee tip's base, its just a spacer and could be made from plastic, metal or wood. As you can see at the other ends I have fitted some chairs and the vees are stuck in place The wing rails are easy to make, just copy the shape from your plan. In the first photo I have used from left to right a check rail chair, a L1 (bridge) chair and a standard chair. You can just as easy use 3 standard chairs and trim them to size. The second photo shows I have cut one part of the chair off Simply put the wing rail in place with gauges and stick the centre and right chair, don't glue the left chair till the solvent has set solid. Then using a wing rail gauge glue the left hand chair This shows the wing rail set in place without any fancy soldering. Repeat the process with the other wing rail, its that easy. OK I will have to solder a couple of extra dropper wires, but no fuss, frustration or burnt fingers. I have repeated this photo as it shows how I use mini plans ( I used an old 00SF plan I had for photographic purposes) I hope this gets rid of a few myths that track building is hard. Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield 12 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) As usual I missed a section out, I forgot to add before adding the wing rails I fitted the stock rails. Permanently when opposite the common crossings, sometimes not sticking all the other chairs until I simultaneously fitted the switch rails. Warning, those who dislike track building skip this post One of the ideas was to use up all these half chairs I had accumulated, but not at the expense maintaining the gauge. For plain track the decision was to use whole chairs every 4 sleeper, where turnouts and crossings are its more complicated Firstly you have to plan where the slide chairs go, then the additional special slide chairs (PL1 & 2), also you have to plan where the check rail chairs go. After taking these into consideration you can see where the normal chairs go and see how many you can leave out, I found about every other chair Special slide chairs(optional) These are the special slide chairs, they grip the stock rail and allow the switch rail to slide. Most track builders do not use the special chairs and just trim up standard and slide chairs to fit Check rail chairs (optional) These are the check rail chairs, they are functional in P4 but for EM & 00 gauges there is a dodge. Most modellers just use standard chairs and trim the chairs so the check rails fit corectly in place The dodge Slide two centre chairs on to the rail and cut the unused parts of the 2 chairs and keep the bits Slide the two outer and one inner chairs on to a check rail, again cutting off the unused halves. Using a check rail gauge fit the check rails in place then replace the half chairs you cut off. As you can see, they give the impression of joining up nicely in both EM & 00SF gauges Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 You make it look so easy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Sweet pea Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2022 Hi John I'm liking the look of your layout, there is some really good track work going on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 Woodenhead Thank you, but it really is so easy, its a bit like making Airfix kits. If you are slapdash and not very careful, you can make a right mess of building it. On the other hand if you are careful take your time and follow instructions its easy. far easier than some plastic wagon kits to build I build my turnouts on my work bench, not stretching over the baseboard. Let the solvent dry and test as you go on. Might be well worth using one of Wayne's kits first , you will gain experience and confidence. Then move on from there The one big issue is in obtaining parts without breaking the bank. In the old day you could go into the local model shop and buy a cheap SMP kit. I guess if someone wants a go if they speak nicely to one of the track builders they could supply a pack of basic materials for a turnout at cost + postage 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, Kevin Johnson said: Hi John I'm liking the look of your layout, there is some really good track work going on. Kevin Thank you, whilst not a lash up I have noticed somethings that could be improved on. Having said this quite a bit of the track may well be hidden with timbers, cobblestones or just built up ground work. Certainly its thanks to the brilliance and helpfulness of Martin Wynn and Templot, which has made it very easy to copy the track plan from old Ordinance Survey maps and being able to easily overlay track on it and interlace the two turnouts into a form of Barry slip. The track building with plastic components is a bit like a grownups Leggo set which has been kit bashed a bit. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2022 18 minutes ago, hayfield said: Having said this quite a bit of the track may well be hidden with timbers, cobblestones or just built up ground work. That’s one aspect of the prototype that I find a bit of a puzzle. It’s on a viaduct. By the looks of it there is a wagon lift via a turntable with tracks running below/underneath via yet more turntables. So why all the track in-fill? Can road carts etc. access the viaduct somehow? The dodge of using alternate chairs to hold such as check rails arose initially because in many cases, and even today with some scales, ordinary & slide chairs are all that is available. Starting off in P4 like this you’ll probably not be surprised I still do it the same now…..old habits etc! But helpful when your skills are less than wonderful and you can then ‘fettle’ it to get passable running. I always need all the help I can get… Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) Back to the layout and structures. I have been using Fair Priced Models scratch aid warehouse kits, which I intend to modify. I am going to shorten the two 3 story warehouses and perhaps add a bit more depth Well a three story pub arrived yesterday I have also slightly moved a few items about, the foreground should have tracks on the ground level, with wagon turntables, but there is not enough room for very much I need the 3 story to finish this end with a bit of height and have some activity under and in front of the arches, perhaps even a bit of a market. Next up is planning the base board, first by finalising where the track bed will go and cut access holes under the closed in parts of the viaduct I want to shorten the 3 story warehouse, add another building and add a further shop or house against the background The track bed has been lowered and its outline marked on the board and the roads marked out Looking the other way the three story building will also be shortened by 25%, it will also be raised by 50%. In line with the road there will be a two level building facing the road and backing on to it. I need to order the alternative 2 story building they have in the range As I said on the other side of the tracks one and two story building are between the raised tracks and the lower inset track There is no way I can copy this but there is a wagon lift from the viaduct to the ground level, I have no idea what I am going to do other than it will be nothing like it was Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) On 08/01/2022 at 15:47, Izzy said: That’s one aspect of the prototype that I find a bit of a puzzle. It’s on a viaduct. By the looks of it there is a wagon lift via a turntable with tracks running below/underneath via yet more turntables. So why all the track in-fill? Can road carts etc. access the viaduct somehow? The dodge of using alternate chairs to hold such as check rails arose initially because in many cases, and even today with some scales, ordinary & slide chairs are all that is available. Starting off in P4 like this you’ll probably not be surprised I still do it the same now…..old habits etc! But helpful when your skills are less than wonderful and you can then ‘fettle’ it to get passable running. I always need all the help I can get… Bob Bob I will start with the easy bit. If working to P4 the check rail chairs are a doddle. Thread them on to the check rail and stock rail at the same time when threading the chairs on to the stock rail. fit in place using check rail gauges where the check rail is opposite the vee and roller gauges elsewhere. By the way this is to EM gauge As for the inset track This photo shows it across all 3 roads, I especially like all the differing surfaces I guess where the wagon turntables are it will be inset track. I think its safe to say for the part of the warehouse I am modelling it will be inset. What happens after it crosses Smithfield is another story, it would be easier if it was ballasted as it is going the other way. All ideas, info etc will be most welcome Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) Back to track building, once the stock rails and wing rails were fitted in place, it was an easy job of filing up 6 switch rails Its not worth doing a blow by blow account as it was a case of (especially with the slip) working out what chairs went where, which I further complicated by using half chairs Looking back, this part was so easy simply because the stock rails were fitted before the wing rails, then everything seemed to simply fall into lace. What I was left with was all those half chairs that needed fitting I think I just had the telly on whilst working my way through it, had I used full chairs it would have been very much quicker, even quicker would have been using flexitrack, but I had time to spare and it had a zero cost All I need to do now is to top and tail the tracks, but I need the backscenes in place first Next up is wiring the boards and cutting to length once the final position has been established Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) I decided on the exact position of the track bed and then marked both the shape of the ends to the track bed and the position of the track bed on the baseboard. I then cut the ends to shape and length. once that was done I fitted droppers as appropriate to every rail that needed one. The next job will be to mark out and cut access holes in the space under the embankments but not where the road is. Then decide how to make the 65mm supports which will hold the track bed, but not impair either the servos and their actuating system, or the viaduct sides. The other thing I am undecided on is what material to make the back and sides of the baseboards. The baseboard top is from 5mm high quality ply, and I was going to use this material, which I was going to be 15" high (3" of which will be below the base board). But I have been so impressed with the lightness and rigidity of the soffit board I may well use 405mm wide white soffit board, but I would have to buy 5m and its about £50. All I need is roughly 2.1m but I could use the excess on another project (porch ceiling) which I plan to do in the spring I need to find some local suppliers first and get some quotes. I do have another long length of 200mm wide but not quite 5m and I don't fancy a join half way up. Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted January 11, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2022 If you haven’t already got them sorted, could I suggest using the metal geared versions of the common SG90’s, MG90’s. These are more robust and seem quieter whether they are ‘genuine’ TP ones or an equivalent, ( I’ve had both from eBay). Hardly any cost difference if you shop around, couple quid each. Really like how it’s coming together. Bob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 Bob You got me thinking a bit then the penny dropped you are talking about servos. This is something I just have no clue about. Rightly or wrongly I was going to buy a Peco starter pack, as it has everything in one box including a set of instructions. I know tis is an expensive route buy I have not got a clue especially as don't they need programming ? and holders, as to what powers them and switches ? If I do go down this route what do I need to buy/have (please be very basic) it will be DC operation Thanks for the tip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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