Citadel Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 (edited) Help! Need a bit of advice. Have a serious hankering after something green with slotted splashers and an open cab to go with the Saltley coaches. Totally taken by the Gerald Broom painting in LNWR liveries and had set my heart on a Lady of the Lake but understand that suitable wheels are a problem. In terms of prototype think 7’ 6” 22 spoke but stand to be corrected. Any solutions out there? Coal Tank, envious of the one you have on your thread…. Edited March 4, 2022 by Citadel 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coal Tank Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coal Tank Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Hi Mike, I have used the Gibson 7ft 6inch Spinner wheels. If you look you can see where I have put thr crank pin. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portchullin Tatty Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 On 04/03/2022 at 22:42, Citadel said: In terms of prototype think 7’ 6” 22 spoke but stand to be corrected. Any solutions out there? Find David Lane (David Big Cheeseplant on both RMweb and Scalefour Society Forum). He may well be able to print some for you as he has constructed a program that can generate all wheel types. They come out 3D printed and you will need to get a tyre from Alan Gibson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coal Tank Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Portchullin Tatty said: Find David Lane (David Big Cheeseplant on both RMweb and Scalefour Society Forum). He may well be able to print some for you as he has constructed a program that can generate all wheel types. They come out 3D printed and you will need to get a tyre from Alan Gibson. Hi, I did ask him about this a while ago and he said that he had too much on. He has quite a nice project on. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coal Tank Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 I would be interested to know what size the wheels were after they had been reprofiled a few times John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citadel Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 Many thanks for the suggestions. John Redrup at LRM has been really helpful as well. Firstly now realise that despite being called a ‘7 ft 6 in Single’ the wheels were actually 7 ft 9 in (read the article on the LNWR Society website explaining the background to this). Bought the kit (woo hoo) and have ordered both the 8ft (with crank pin) and the 7 ft 6 inch plain (will experiment - given that it’s a single driver think I have a fighting chance of retrofitting a crank pin like you have Coal Tank). What could possibly go wrong…. Cheers Mike 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citadel Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 Coal Tank, just saw your recent comment. Agree, think I’m better to go smaller. The Ted Talbot note on the LNWR website about ‘nominal wheel diameter’ doesn’t define exactly at what level of wear it would be replaced but does imply that it would be considerably less than the starting diameter as you say. The 8ft wheel with the crank is just a sort of insurance policy in case my ham fistedness means it’s necessary…. Once again thanks for everybody's help. Lord knows I’m going to start needing it in about three weeks time when I start trying to get a loco to work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 John, wheels could be up to 3" less in diameter when the tyres were turned down, Mike, the splashers weren't designed significantly oversized so 8' wheels with OO/EM flanges might foul them. The crankpins have only to "drive" the connecting rod/crosshead/piston rod assembly so I would expect gluing the crankpin in with a good epoxy would be satisfactory but the plastic wheel would have to be "roughened up" to provide a good key. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citadel Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 Thanks Jol. Appreciate the advice. At least I’m now 2% of the way towards building a GNR Single…. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coal Tank Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) Hi Jol Thank you for that, that means that the 7ft 6 wheel is ok to use. Mike when I fitted the crank pin I drilled a small Hole in between the spokesbefore thread ing the screw in, the Hole was smaller than the screw but it made fittings the screw much easier. The kit isnt too bad to make, im not that good at building engines but I am pleased with it so far. If you do mess something up John is good at supply ing extra etches. John Edited March 7, 2022 by Coal Tank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citadel Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) OK, rather than hatching plans thought I needed to get stuck in and complete some of the part finished jobs. Still a bit of a work in progress - sense this is a bit of a 'grounded body special'. Firstly the 14' 6" horse box - my first piece of scratch building in plasticard. Usual steep learning curve - now I realise when you laminate multiple layers then leave on your workbench by the next morning it will be like a banana. The really good thing about this horsebox is that it's genuinely 14' 6" long, read the article about the furore about the Microrail kit and how it ended up at 14' 3" (not that I'm sure anyone will ever really notice the difference). The bad thing is that the lettering is probably the wrong style but hey ho... Penlan, there seems to be a sort of stay on the non groom end for the foldy down door - can part see it in your model. Can't really work out how it functions - if I squint at Plate 103 in LNWR Miscellany Vol 2 can just about make it out as a straight diagonal bar down to about buffer beam height but before I make something up any advice welcome(!) Now for some carriages (all from LRM kits. Firstly the D297 5 Comp Third. As mentioned in earlier post there were over 800 so pity the poor s*d who had to make all those door handles - just one carriage did my head in. Now for compartments, glazing, roof, seats, passengers.... Just when I thought it was nearly finished. Probably wouldn't have ever made it to Carlisle (originally was going to 'pretend' it was WCJS from the 1870's and fit oil lamps etc. but my conscience has now got the better of me so just building it as per the prototype) Next up a D425 Parcel Van. Wanted to do it as a Palethorpe's Sausage version but then realised the lettering was going to be a real struggle. Interesting prototype though (and no windows so guess which one will be the first one I'll complete.... D385 (I think) brake van. There are only two sets of the block L&NWR on an HMRS sheet and I seem to be addicted to brakes and parcel vans, need to wean myself off them.... This is the new set of HMRS transfers - the crests... hmmm.... Have to say though I'm really grateful for all the hard work they put in to secure a continued supply and it's nothing I can't fix with a couple of blobs of white/red from a Rotring so all good from my perspective. Then the D85 Picnic Saloon. Mrs Galloway is very excited about the trip to Preston and she's already ordered a stuffed pigs head from the butcher - she's just a bit anxious about whether there will be any wheels and roof fitted before their trip... and a window for the lavatory... But most importantly I now have this sitting on my bench. Think I'll finish a few other things so just had a quick peek in the box then closed it again. Also need to wait for the wheels, motor, gearbox etc. And suspect I might have forgotten to get some horn blocks - can't imagine the logistics involved on the part of a kit provider dealing with all those subcontractors and suppliers - hats off to them given current circumstances.... Edited June 22, 2022 by Citadel 9 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted March 10, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2022 Excellent work once again Sir! Brake and parcels vans are strangely fascinating, aren't they? I think it's the combination of the off-limits / non-public / almost departmental nature of them and the idea of all the exciting contents (toys / food / drink / name your luxury)... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citadel Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) Chas, think the lack of windows to glaze that was the initial appeal but your theory is so attractive I think I’m pretty sold on it so am going to adopt it from now on Edited March 10, 2022 by Citadel 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Citadel said: Penlan, there seems to be a sort of stay on the non groom end for the foldy down door - can part see it in your model. Can't really work out how it functions - if I squint at Plate 103 in LNWR Miscellany Vol 2 can just about make it out as a straight diagonal bar down to about buffer beam height but before I make something up any advice welcome(!) Unfortunately I no longer have that Horsebox, but if this view helps? Then something has been achieved The bit you might be able to see on the non-Grooms end is the rodding to help lift the top flap UPWARDS when the lower part is lowered - The upper part of the horsebox itself is hinged along the top, there's no side hung doors, once this is understood, simples???? From an engineering point of view in terms of weights etc., then fortunately I have not needed to 'open' the door(s) of a 1:1 scale Horsebox, if one still existed. What I didn't have on the roof of my model are the two hand grips at the Grooms end of the roof, clearly seen in 2 photo's (of the Grooms end of the Horsebox) at https://davidheyscollection.myshopblocks.com/pages/david-heys-steam-diesel-photo-collection-08-railway-centre-crewe I'm sure somebody will come along soon with a better answer. There is an article on the remains of one of these horseboxes described in Vol 1, No 10 of the Society's Journal. The Society's Webb site also shows a completed model of a Horsebox at http://www.lnwrs.org.uk/Modelling/4mmcarriages?display_base_mod_photo=4cmirmrhb01 with end steps at the Grooms end and handrails up to the two grab handles on the roof, my model didn't, probably because the NRM photo's don't show end steps and handrails either, though agreed there are hand grabs on the Grooms roof end. Tangled webbs come to mind. Edited March 11, 2022 by Penlan 5 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citadel Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share Posted March 11, 2022 Penlan, once again many thanks for taking the time to respond. Can kind of get my head around how that arrangement might work so that’s now the plan. Hand grips on the roof at the grooms end but no steps (am sure every respectable Victorian lamp technician had a ladder handy). The David Heys website is a good read, could lose myself in there for hours. Had never come across it before 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Citadel Posted March 17, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) D425 Parcels Van completed. Chas, am trying to channel the 'combination of the off-limits / non-public / almost departmental nature of them and the idea of all the exciting contents (toys / food / drink / name your luxury)...' Maybe my Alan Gibson wheels are in it.... Pushing on with the 42' stock, think need to hone my annealing skills a bit before tackling the Lady.... Nothing that a nice coat of paint won't solve. And finally trying to keep Colonel Cholmondeley happy. The tiger hunt out in Pondicherry didn't end well to be honest but I haven't told him that am going to have to amputate his arms as well to get him to fit under the bedsheets.... I really love the interior layouts in the LNWR diagram book, they just transport you back to an earlier age... Edited April 1, 2022 by Citadel 15 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted March 20, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2022 On 17/03/2022 at 20:07, Citadel said: D425 Parcels Van completed. Chas, am trying to channel the 'combination of the off-limits / non-public / almost departmental nature of them and the idea of all the exciting contents (toys / food / drink / name your luxury)...' Maybe my Alan Gibson wheels are in it.... And very lovely it looks too Mike! Glad to hear you're channeling my 'neo-departmental/concealed toys' parcel van motivation . Is the lettering a trnsfer or painted - if the latter, very nicely done!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citadel Posted April 2, 2022 Author Share Posted April 2, 2022 (edited) Good to be back - pleased I only had a couple of months worth of photos to restore and fortunately they were still cluttering up my desktop. Did give me time to finish the D385 Brake Van (but still need to tart up the crests a little bit) Finally thought I'd better learn a bit of theory in preparation for the Lady, bought a couple of second hand Iain Rice books - very engaging read. Spent the last few days experiencing the joys of 145 deg solder and Phosphoric Acid flux - why did I persevere so long with that dodgy roll of rosin cored stuff I inherited from the plumber... Am sure most of the folks reading this will be having a good giggle at my expense - certainly have a lot to learn! Chas, the lettering in the earlier post is from the new HMRS transfer sheet but there was a more black than yellow so looked a little wrong - hence the blobs of yellow Rotring ink to try and rectify. I do not have the talent to do things like that from scratch (and hats off to those who do). Edited June 22, 2022 by Citadel 15 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Citadel Posted April 8, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 8, 2022 (edited) Finally finished the D297 5 Compt Third. Started off by dreading the glazing and interior as a bit of a faffy job but although took a fair bit of time actually quite enjoyed it. At the end of the day guess you have to try and make it more theatrical than the exterior with brighter colours so things show up through the windows - also the little mistakes aren't really as obvious.... Plenty of practice at making seatbacks out of modelling clay - need to investigate resin casting. Here's a couple of pictures of the completed carriage: Right, D85 Picnic Saloon beckons. Just making a table, a tablecloth and a picnic. Not really sure what the Victorians took on a day out but I just really fancy stuffed pigs head as the centrepiece. Again, not really sure it will be that obvious from the outside but I'll know it's there! Edited April 8, 2022 by Citadel 10 9 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted April 9, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 9, 2022 (edited) On 02/04/2022 at 22:52, Citadel said: Chas, the lettering in the earlier post is from the new HMRS transfer sheet but there was a more black than yellow so looked a little wrong - hence the blobs of yellow Rotring ink to try and rectify. I do not have the talent to do things like that from scratch (and hats off to those who do). Ah, right, thank you - your modifications are definitely an improvement. The HMRS sheets can be a little variable, as more than one person (including myself) has found... Edited April 10, 2022 by Chas Levin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted April 9, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 9, 2022 On 08/04/2022 at 16:49, Citadel said: Plenty of practice at making seatbacks out of modelling clay - need to investigate resin casting. Here's a couple of pictures of the completed carriage: ... Not really sure what the Victorians took on a day out but I just really fancy stuffed pigs head as the centrepiece. Again, not really sure it will be that obvious from the outside but I'll know it's there! Ooh - loving those button tufted seats Mike! Lovely carriage generally in fact. And you can't beat a stuffed pig's head... 😋 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Citadel Posted April 11, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 11, 2022 (edited) Right, lavatory windows. Just spent the last two hours of my life (which won't be getting back) fiddling about with little pieces of acrylic. Sanded the back with fine wet and dry then created a freeform crest with gloss varnish (again on the reverse) to create the effect. Think things like this are the bits I seem to enjoy most. Certainly intend to experiment with the 3M Magic Tape, also the laser engraving route is another idea I'll follow up on. And the good news is that Mrs Galloway can now spend a penny in privacy. Edited April 11, 2022 by Citadel 12 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Citadel Posted April 14, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 14, 2022 (edited) Well, have to admit that now got stuffed pigs heads out of my system. Given my skills with modelling clay looks more like a brown badger but hey-ho. Mr Chalmont is looking a little horrified by the fare on offer..... The sofa's are an approximate interpretation of the real thing, found the Picnic Saloon Trust website invaluable in this respect - the amount of craftsmanship that went into a humble sofa is quite amazing. http://www.picnicsaloontrust.co.uk/182.shtml And then when I put everything into the interior of the picnic saloon and realised the table didn't fit (aargh!) as really wanted the two ladies to be framed by the central large window and had underestimated how voluminous (and inflexible) their skirts were. Oh well, at least it saved me having to make the rest of the picnic... Anyway, from the outside find the design very attractive Just received the etches for the related D84 version, maybe will get the sofa dimensions a bit more under control and the pigs head won't go to waste... Edited April 14, 2022 by Citadel 13 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 14, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, Citadel said: underestimated how voluminous (and inflexible) their skirts were. Well I dare say that's prototypical. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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