Hornby New Release Vent Vans

[31A]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I think you will agree with me that fitted wagons and vans with Morton 4 shoe brake gear have tie bars between the W irons.

 

I do Clive, but most RTR ones don't have them!  Easy enough to add though, and better made from metal strip anyway rather than flimsy mouldings.

[Covkid]

16 hours ago, Wheatley said:

The stripes it has on the manufacturer's website - https://uk.Hornby.com/products/br-vent-van-era-4-r60028?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7dfglPn69wIVC7h3Ch3GMgN1EAAYASAAEgIhCPD_BwE

 

At least it appears someone noticed before they got out into the wild !

Ahh the shoc stripes. Comprendez

[64F]

On 25/05/2022 at 16:46, Fat Controller said:

Is this the first time Hornby have issued a BR Standard Vent Van (Dia 1/208?)

 

On 25/05/2022 at 20:13, Covkid said:

 

Going by the enlarged Kernow image the steel end panels look awful, particularly around the vent bonnet, and the diagonal angle irons are no better than the Bachmann equivalents.

 

A real shame

 

The bodies have all been produced before (e.g. R6147 for the BR standard vanfit) and all are inferior to the competition.  As others have said the return of a RTR meat van might be useful to some, but it's still got an incorrect chassis and none of them are particularly cheap.

 

It's stuff like this that frustrates me about Hornby.  They've apparently invested some money on a new chassis in order to warm over some tired old van bodies and sell them for the same price as better models of the same thing from other manufacturers.  Most serious modellers will simply ignore them, and it devalues the Hornby brand to be selling things that ought to be in the Railroad range for much the same price as their own top quality stuff like the SR cattle wagons and the various brake vans.

 

How much better it would be to produce a reasonable quality new van body of a type not otherwise available RTR, if at all.  What about one of the umpteen types of LMS van, or a plywood Mink, or almost any type of banana van?

 

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

7 hours ago, 64F said:

 

How much better it would be to produce a reasonable quality new van body of a type not otherwise available RTR, if at all.  What about one of the umpteen types of LMS van, or a plywood Mink, or almost any type of banana van?

 

 

 

Or any Mink, Mogo, etc., that's not (deliberately) made too wide in order to fit over a "standard" chassis with BR-sized buffer beams. If by "better competition", you mean Bachmann, they get that wrong too, and some of their wagons still crop up with  mis-assembled brake gear (albeit much less often than in the past), simply because poor design makes that possible.

 

The problem would disappear if the headstocks were simply made as part of the body. It's been common practice for years on most coal wagons from the "big two" but neither has seen fit to bring their existing van range up to a similar standard. 

 

To give credit where it is due, Oxford Rail did it from the outset and now seem to be getting better at weeding out other errors. Despite a couple of minor (and fixable) issues, their GER vans equal many Hornby and Bachmann wagons, and better most derived from old Mainline/Airfix tooling. Moreover, their 12t tank wagons are the closest r-t-r attempt yet in that category, by a country mile.

 

Now Oxford Rail are within the Hornby fold, it is to be hoped that we may perhaps see some positive cross-fertilisation. Better production design from Oxford, combined with more thorough research from the Hornby side.

 

Otherwise, hopefully, one or other of the new boys will shortly spot opportunities where both red and blue doors have been left wide open for decades....

 

John

Edited May 29, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Covkid]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

To give credit where it is due, Oxford Rail did it from the outset and now seem to be getting better at weeding out other errors. Despite a couple of minor (and fixable) issues, their GER vans equal many Hornby and Bachmann wagons, and better most derived from old Mainline/Airfix tooling. Moreover, their 12t tank wagons are the closest r-t-r attempt yet in that category, by a country mile.

 

Now Oxford Rail are within the Hornby fold, it is to be hoped that we may perhaps see some positive cross-fertilisation. Better production design from Oxford, combined with more thorough research from the Hornby side.

 

I agree Oxford Rail did show a great deal of promise, but with the sale to Hornby has it been stifled out of existence ? I agree the new tank wagons and the new vans are beauties. I really hope Oxford isn't subsumed.   

[melmerby]

On 21/05/2022 at 09:02, Butler Henderson said:

The Mogo is a Dapol copy of the Kader model done when Dapol found they did not have access the the Kader tooling. The Kader Mainline model is the Bachmann model running on a new chassis since 2001.

Mainline actually owned a (very) few of their tools and those have gone the same Airfix-Dapol-Hornby route.

The Kader owned ones were used for Bachmann Branchline.

IIRC they were duplicates of a few Kader owned tools

 

[Dunsignalling]

On 21/05/2022 at 03:35, Steamport Southport said:

I'm pretty sure the Mogo was Mainline.

 

 

The interesting one is the Meat Van. ISTR Dapol only ever released that as a short run and they are rare as hens teeth. Unfortunately it's the same type as the old Airfix kit and I have too many of them already as there was only 150 of them built. Otherwise I might have been interested.

 

Worth a look if you aren't a kit builder with loads of old Airfix wagons.

 

 

Jason

Dapol hasn't (to my knowledge) done another r-t-r Meat van since the maroon one. My Hornby example exhibits exactly the same somewhat oversized strapping so I presume it's one of the Dapol tools they bought along with the Terrier, 14xx, Autocoach etc.. The ex-Airfix kit was still available from Dapol last time I looked.

 

Hornby has previously released the Meat vans in bauxite with three or four different running numbers under catalogue number R.6185/A/B etc. but this one gets the new chassis.

 

John

Edited May 29, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[MJI]

Just seen these

 

Sticking with kits

[Butler Henderson]

Vans acquired by Hornby in 1996 from Dapol were;

Dapols 1984 copy of the Kader (Mainline) GW double vent van

Dapols 1991 copy of the Kader (Mainline) GW Mogo

Dapol 1985 quad vent Meat van 

Airfix 1979 SR double vent box van; Dapol made a new tooling for themselves in 2005.

 

Slightly off topic but as an exception to the general rule the 1978 Airfix BK container passed to Kader. Palitoy had sent the tooling to Kader to tweak the Conflat A to take the AF Container and the BK Container presumably went with it and stayed there.  The Conflat A and container with Hornby is a Dapol copy believed to have been made before Dapol acquired any of ex Airfix toolings. Post 1996 another container was tooled by Dapol to use with the 1978 Airfix Conflat A. Source: Ramsay's British Model Trains catalogue.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Butler Henderson

[russ p]

On 25/05/2022 at 21:30, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Steve

 

I think you will agree with me that fitted wagons and vans with Morton 4 shoe brake gear have tie bars between the W irons.

 

Bit confused by the white stripes on the BR 1/208 van as it isn't a shockvan. Not shown on the Kernow website but they are on the Hornby one.

 

Weren't meat vans painted crimson when in meat traffic, but when taken out of that traffic and used as Vanfits they were bauxite without "MEAT" designation?

 

Just ordered one GWR van, one BR van and a meat van.

 

Is the Hornby one wrong Clive? As its bauxite.  If they went bauxite after they finished in meat traffic I may get a couple and remove the branding 

[Dunsignalling]

46 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Is the Hornby one wrong Clive? As its bauxite.  If they went bauxite after they finished in meat traffic I may get a couple and remove the branding 

AIUI, some went into bauxite whilst still designated as meat vans. The use of crimson for such vans seems to have been discontinued at or about the time that maroon displaced crimson on coaching stock, so any coming due for repaints thereafter should have received bauxite.

 

However, some SR ventilated meat vans lost all but the uppermost  vents when reassigned to general traffic, and it's possible that these might have been treated similarly.

 

I have a recollection of one photo of a BR (former) meat van so modified but with the side vents still extant, though I can't recall where I saw it.

 

Remaining West Country meat traffic went over to containers c1960 in any event. Did the same happen elsewhere?

 

John

Edited May 30, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Clive Mortimore]

12 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Is the Hornby one wrong Clive? As its bauxite.  If they went bauxite after they finished in meat traffic I may get a couple and remove the branding 

Hi Russ

 

Meat vans went into ordinary van traffic with the decline in fresh meat traveling by rail and were repainted into bauxite. I think the branding is wrong but I could be wrong and some remained in meat traffic after being repainted. Photos of these vans are quite rare and all the ones I have seen in what appears to be bauxite do not carry the meat labeling.

 

After purchasing some of these new vans what is more worrying is that these new vans which are supposed to vacuum braked have no cylinder to activate the brakes. 😲

[64F]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

 

After purchasing some of these new vans what is more worrying is that these new vans which are supposed to vacuum braked have no cylinder to activate the brakes. 😲

 

Also missing tie bars in most cases - not that Bachmann are terribly assiduous about such things either.  If manufacturers insist on  using one standard push-brake chassis then for my money it ought to have a tie-bar, as they are less work to break off than to add!  My old Dapol meat van (the seemingly rare RTR bauxite one) recently gained a Parkside PA09 chassis and is much the better for it.

[Dunsignalling]

For those unaware of their existence, Cambrian do some very nice tie-bars for wagons of various wheelbases in etched brass, complete with appropriate bolt-head detail.

 

Useful for replacing those on kit-built wagons too, as the plastic bars often get broken, especially the very fine ones on Ratio examples.

 

John