Birmingham's railways - some personal thoughts

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, MidlandRed said:

I also recall the old closed MR wagon works to the north-east corner of the old Bromsgrove station - I always wondered whether the location was pure co-incidence or whether it was anticipated a lot of locally generated work might be had (incline working etc).

 

Those works were originally the locomotive works of the Birmingham & Gloucester Railway - situated, as many such works (Swindon, Crewe, Wolverton...) at roughly the half-way point of the line, minimising the distance a failed engine would have to be dragged back or a rescue engine sent out; also, in this case, marking the point at which the nature of the line, and hence the type of locomotives needed, changed (as also Swindon). In this case, strategically at the foot of the Lickey incline.

 

The Midland built wagon repair shops at many key points on its system in the 1860s and enlarged many of them in the 1880s, Bromsgrove included. However, Bromsgrove has the distinction of being the only one at which new wagons were built, in addition to repairs:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of Midland Railway Study Centre item 11482']

[John-Miles]

From 1972 to 1975 I worked for a firm of consulting civil engineers in central Brum (Temple Row). When I arrived one of their jobs was doing the drainage for the houses on the Bromsgrove Wagon Works and Locp Shed site. I did my best to get some work on this job to justify a field trip but no success.

 

My brother worked on the reconstruction of New Street for the contractor Bryant. He recalls that where the columns met beams there was so much reinforcement for the concrete they couldn't physically get it all in so the foreman in charge left some out and it was discretely removed from site. Must have been ok because the new shopping centre sits on this structure.

[melmerby]

On 29/05/2022 at 16:41, Rugd1022 said:

Some more Birmingham area stuff, starting with Saltley driver 'Stacker' Steadman's finest hour at Washwwod Heath in 1969...

 

 

 

 

 

Bet he couldn't do that again if he tried😄

[Rugd1022]

13 hours ago, melmerby said:

Bet he couldn't do that again if he tried😄

 

And imagine how it looked to people travelling on passing trains...!

[Compound2632]

22 minutes ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

And imagine how it looked to people travelling on passing trains...!

 

I have the impression that the upturned van came off worse than the brake - it seems to be the one with the stove-in roof. I hope that as it was a shunting move, there was no-one in the brake? 

[rogerzilla]

On 30/05/2022 at 21:06, Flittersnoop said:

I was at Birmingham University from 1982 to 1985. In the first year the line from Selly Oak into New Street was visible from the corridor in my hall of residence. The Class 50s made such a noise on the climb from BNS that I had time to dash out of my room and see the train, and thanks to the large logo livery the numbers were legible and by the end of my degree I had seen all fifty of them.

 

I was in Mason Hall during 1987-88 and 1989-90, overlooking the line.  Took a few nights to get used to it.

[40152]

This post is really taking me back. I was born and brought up in Birmingham. One of the great things about being of secondary school age in Brum in the late 70s / early 80s was the WM Travelcard, or TC. Living nowhere near where I went to school, there used to be such a thing as a ‘Scholar’s Pass’, providing free bus and rail transport across the old WMPTE area during the working week, ostensibly to get us kids to school. Not bad at all, but even better was, for the addition of just £5 per year, unlimited travel at all times, including weekends, across the WMPTE network. 
 

This undoubtedly helped to fund the swarms of TC neds found around New St on Saturdays in the early 80s, turning them from mere ‘spotters’ (pah!) into bashers. Flailing up and down between New St and Coventry, chasing 50s on the Paddington services, getting under everyone’s feet and generally being a bit of pain in the bum is my abiding memory of those early days. What amazes me now is that, looking through my old moves book and bearing in mind I was still a schoolie without an income, travelling 20 000 miles per year was pretty much the norm, mostly done between Wolverhampton, New St and Coventry. The variety of locomotives passing through New St made it even more interesting, managing to clear all of the 50s for haulage plus most of the remaining 82s, 83s plus all of the 85-87s wasn’t hard - they just rolled up and we fell on them. That plus the weird and wonderful that sometimes rolled in - anyone remember the pair of 73s that worked through on the Portsmouth? What wouldn’t we give for that variety now?

 

Being a New St insect didn’t last, of course, as my mates and I became too cool for that (!) and soon started roving further afield, first on the ‘Mid’ or Midland Railrover chasing Peaks and 31s, then moving on to tracking down the remaining 40s. 
 

This all stopped when I hit 16 and simply couldn’t afford it on adult fares and I became more interested in photography, but for a few, intense years in the early 80s the New St scene was a great one.

 

Cheers

 

’152

[Johnson044]

On 30/05/2022 at 17:25, Johnson044 said:

Thanks for all the wonderfully varied but always positive responses. What a broad church this is! 

 

A few further memories that might spark some more interest:

 

Just little fragments really. Silly witterings. 

 

I went back in 1977 or 1978 on a cycling holiday and visited some old haunts, one of which was Bromsgrove, where I’d spent many happy hours on the platform watching trains assaulting the Lickey Bank. This time I got inside the former Midland Railway workshops, which were entirely derelict but largely intact, and I spent about an hour wandering about freely. What struck me was that the floor seemed to be made up entirely of old carriage and wagon underframe timbers – mainly headstocks. I do wonder what they might have all come from.

 

I also re-visited the Halesowen Railway but even then I think, it was being obliterated by the expansion of Frankley. By the looks of things the line seems to be completely wiped from the face of the earth now from Halesowen Junction as far as the M5.

 

Another memory that I have - another really pleasant one - is of the little model shop in Barnt Green - it was shared with a knitting wool shop and at the back was a room full of mainly Airfix kits, some of which, even at the time, were pretty elderly. Sitting on one of the "witch's hat" iron roundabouts that safety concerns have now eradicated in the park opposite and opening the newly bought box and looking through all of the parts of - say - a Fokker Friendship or similar - and I'm sure I was delving into a bag of Cadbury's Stroodles at the same time- or maybe they came along later? Anyone else remember Stroodles?

 

In the early '70's, about 1973, the village of Barnt Green would club together and organize an annual mystery trip- usually to Matlock or, on one occasion to Barry - where most of the village went to the beach except for the one or two that had several hours amongst the rusting Bulleids.
 

Two lasting memories of the trip to Barry were the gas-axed driving wheels of Galatea and walking through end to end one of the  A1A-A1A Warships. What sticks in my mind is the train heating boiler, which was completely white. Hmm. Probably the "A" word, I think.

['CHARD]

If I don't know you in person, 40152, then I certainly have friends that do!  I'd forgotten the term 'Scholars Pass,' and somewhere I've kept the very last Travelcard I had, probably 1983 or '84.  It's difficult to imagine now, but in the mid to late seventies the local rail network was quite primitive compared to today. The county boundary probably dictated various add-ons for pupils travelling in from stations outside the TC area, notably on the Stourbridge line.  Also, pre-Cross City, the nearest station to the University was Selly Oak with a patchy service.  For this reason, my  early school travel was by bus.

 

Those were the days, until around 1981, that suffixed WMPTE  buses were still about in tantalisingly modest numbers - L for Walsall, H West Brom, N Wolves and Y for Coventry.  Just prior to the Cross City being opened south of New Street, due to arcane reasons I won't bore you with here, a bunch of superannuated ex-Coventry Fleetlines (129Y and 363Y still ring a bell!) were briefly allocated to Selly Oak, bringing excitement and relief from the tired and creaking 'Jumbo' 38xx-39xx Fleetlines on the Bristol Road services 61-63.

 

I was never a hardcore basher, but in the Upper 6th, with rather flexible hours of attendance, I put in the hours on the usual Coventry - Wolvo corridor, absorbing plenty of the Type 4s that would later crop up and bowl you out during Highland overnights!

 

I enjoyed all of 45, 46, 47 and 50 - which was a sacrilegious standpoint amongst the EE Type 3 fraternity with which all my pals were affiliated (why they hated EEs 40s ['buckets'] and 50s, I couldn't fathom) - and when a 45 went through to the south-east (Newcastle - Poole and back) instead of being swapped at New Street the working was considered exotic.

 

One notable character, alongside the recently lamented 'Jed' (R.I.P), was a Chinese chap known as 'Top Hat.'  Folklore runs that he only went after Class 86/2s, in number order, between New Street and Cov. and that he's still around somewhere (thin pickings with only 86259 left though!!!).

[40152]

31 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

I enjoyed all of 45, 46, 47 and 50 - which was a sacrilegious standpoint amongst the EE Type 3 fraternity with which all my pals were affiliated

Indeed; Siphons were never common on passenger services at New St around this time. Covering the York - Tenby was the best bet, else they drifted in on random summer Saturday workings. We were all much more ‘tribal’ in those days with the motive power that we followed. Would be nice now to have the luxury of such choice.

 

37 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

One notable character, alongside the recently lamented 'Jed' (R.I.P), was a Chinese chap known as 'Top Hat.' 

Jed was an ok bloke; did numerous Family Railcard excursions with him as our dad! There certainly were some characters around New St then. Dudley Zoo, BS Bill, Two-Five Dave, Soup, Dad, Stench and The Wench are just a few I remember plus my mates of course. Not sure how parents these days would view their offspring hanging around with some of these characters on the loose, but we always felt safe enough.

 

Happy days….

 

Cheers,

 

’152

[melmerby]

18 hours ago, 40152 said:

This post is really taking me back.

 

’152

This post is making me feel old!

1980s? Pfff

1950s more like, the only diesels I saw were 10800 & the Bulleid trio, plus early DMUs.

Everything else was steam.

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 01/06/2022 at 14:11, Compound2632 said:

 

 

The Midland built wagon repair shops at many key points on its system in the 1860s and enlarged many of them in the 1880s, Bromsgrove included. However, Bromsgrove has the distinction of being the only one at which new wagons were built, in addition to repairs:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of Midland Railway Study Centre item 11482']

A member of my mother's family served his apprenticeship at Bromsgrove wagon works. 

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 29/05/2022 at 16:41, Rugd1022 said:

Some more Birmingham area stuff, starting with Saltley driver 'Stacker' Steadman's finest hour at Washwwod Heath in 1969...

The legendary man. He was on the committee of the BRSA club at Vauxhall which was alongside Lawley Street yard opposite Saltley shed. Our office cricket team used the BRSA ground that they managed. At one committee meeting c1975 the new Area Manager at Saltley was being introduced and when the secretary got to Stacker he said "This is Roy Steadman, also known as Stacker. If you want to know why his file is the thickest one in the cupboard. He's had a Number One for every offence in the book."

 

On 01/06/2022 at 19:57, melmerby said:

Bet he couldn't do that again if he tried😄

Having known Stacker it wouldn't be for want of trying.

 

On 02/06/2022 at 10:09, Compound2632 said:

 

I hope that as it was a shunting move, there was no-one in the brake? 

It was on the Shunting Line in the Down Sidings at Washwood Heath No.4 box IIRC.

[SZ]

14 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

One notable character, alongside the recently lamented 'Jed' (R.I.P)

 

Jed! I think I know who you mean, a long haired bloke in an overcoat. Worked in a record shop, either Inferno or the other one, Tempest. Saw him sometime in the last year and it took me right back.

['CHARD]

12 hours ago, SZ said:

 

Jed! I think I know who you mean, a long haired bloke in an overcoat. Worked in a record shop, either Inferno or the other one, Tempest. Saw him sometime in the last year and it took me right back.

 

Right description, wrong career though!  Jed never worked in a record shop, in fact I can't recall him having a job of any conventional sort. 

[Rugd1022]

1 hour ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Right description, wrong career though!  Jed never worked in a record shop, in fact I can't recall him having a job of any conventional sort. 

 

I heard a rumour in the early '80s that his family were fairly well off and indulged his hobby, whether it was true or not I don't know. Met and chatted with him many times during the peak (no pun intended) bashing years and he was always great company, one of the nicest people I've ever met. By '83 I was on the footplate and saw him at Padd one day, my driver and I gave him a cab rode down to Old Oak and back on 50 025 which he appreciated.

 

Funny thing was, you never saw Jed and Mick Fleetwood of Fleetwood Mac in the same room at the same time....! 

[Rugd1022]

Another Brummie image from the archives - New Street on Saturday 6th June 1981, the day of the BR open days at Swindon and Crewe Works (I went to Swindon that day)....

 

 

And Saltley station back in the day....

 

 

 

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

1 hour ago, Rugd1022 said:

And Saltley station back in the day....

 

Spent a few hours in the building to the right. S&T stores and lineman's depot.

The planking on the platform is on the bridge over the canal. One day I was working in Saltley Sidings box which stood between the main lines at the Derby end of the platform. The breakdown train was belled up and a Class 25 came along at the head, the crane was next. Someone had forgotten to lower the chimney and it hit Saltley viaduct, shearing off the hinge. The momentum propelled the chimney into the brickwork behind the platform stairs and it bounced back falling between the first and second vans. After ripping off the signal wire pulleys along the platform face it hit the girder of the canal bridge, emerged from between the second and  third vans and cartwheeled along the platform. Fortunately nobody was injured, the only damage on the train was a couple of broken axlebox covers and a lot of soiled underwear. I got in a few hours overtime that day renewing the signal wire run. Although the station is long gone there is still a mark in the brickwork of the viaduct where the chimney hit it.

 

[SZ]

8 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Right description, wrong career though!  Jed never worked in a record shop, in fact I can't recall him having a job of any conventional sort. 

 

This would be around 1982 when I got into hanging around Birmingham city centre instead of morning lectures. On the train in I fell in with some commuters who met up in the buffet, one of whom ran a record shop and was telling me about this bloke Jed who worked in the other shop who knew all the train and bus timetables, they all seemed to know him. I'm pretty sure I bought some records from him, Inferno/Tempest at the far end of Corporation Street near the Law Courts. So I didn't know him from trains but just around and had forgotten his name until now. Anyway, I was glad to see him last year getting off a bus on Colmore Row but sad to hear he's now left us.

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by SZ

[Rugd1022]

Some more Saltley area nostalgia....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

34 minutes ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

The first floor has been rather crudely photoshopped onto the original 1860s brickwork of the ground floor!

[Welchester]

On 11/06/2022 at 13:19, Rugd1022 said:

 

I heard a rumour in the early '80s that his family were fairly well off and indulged his hobby, whether it was true or not I don't know. Met and chatted with him many times during the peak (no pun intended) bashing years and he was always great company, one of the nicest people I've ever met. By '83 I was on the footplate and saw him at Padd one day, my driver and I gave him a cab rode down to Old Oak and back on 50 025 which he appreciated.

 

Funny thing was, you never saw Jed and Mick Fleetwood of Fleetwood Mac in the same room at the same time....! 

 

I think you may be right. A friend of mine got chatting to him at an SVR gala (he seemed to attend every one) and had a long conversation about investments, about which Jed seemed well informed.

[G-BOAF]

Given Birmingham City Council's bankruptcy (or public sector equivalent thereof), is there a risk to Coronation Pacific 46235? Could she be sold to balance the books?

I say risk as clearly no one would scrap it, but there would be a 'risk' to her 1960s cosmetic originality, but also an opportunity for restoration to steam.

[melmerby]

47 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

Given Birmingham City Council's bankruptcy (or public sector equivalent thereof), is there a risk to Coronation Pacific 46235? Could she be sold to balance the books?

I say risk as clearly no one would scrap it, but there would be a 'risk' to her 1960s cosmetic originality, but also an opportunity for restoration to steam.

IMHO No chance. The Think Tank and other Birmingham Museums are now a charitable trust. (the largest museum trust in the UK)

I think that puts them out of the reach of creditors.

 

The "Bankruptcy" is just a formal notice to allow them to carry on provide basic services only.

Bear in mind this has been going on for years and the NEC group was sold to get more funds some years ago.