High Level Kits fly shunter kits (for motorising wagons)

[009 micro modeller]

Are these still available? I potentially need a few to make some self-powered wagons for a project, but I can’t find any sign of them on their website: https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk

 

Alternatively, are there any similar alternatives?

[Bucoops]

I *thought* had seen it the other day but can't find it now. Then i remembered it was this:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155042783148

 

Not sure if any use, and I have no connection to it so usual buyer beware type of thing.

[009 micro modeller]

41 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

I *thought* had seen it the other day but can't find it now. Then i remembered it was this:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155042783148

 

Not sure if any use, and I have no connection to it so usual buyer beware type of thing.

But are the kits still available new?

[kevinlms]

28 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

But are the kits still available new?

It is likely that the motors are no longer available.

[decauville1126]

Use the contact information on their website and I'm sure Chris will give you the correct up-to-date status.

[Bucoops]

9 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

But are the kits still available new?

 

As @decauville1126 says, only Chris would be able to answer that one.

 

His current motors use the same mounting points as the Mashimas so hopefully that's not a reason for withdrawing the kit.

[MarkC]

On 28/06/2022 at 12:03, Bucoops said:

I *thought* had seen it the other day but can't find it now. Then i remembered it was this:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155042783148

 

Not sure if any use, and I have no connection to it so usual buyer beware type of thing.

I've set this to <watching>, as one does...

 

Just had an email from the Bay of E - the seller is offering a B-I-N of GBP80!

[Grovenor]

The world is full of optimists!

[009 micro modeller]

On 28/06/2022 at 12:14, kevinlms said:

It is likely that the motors are no longer available.

 

On 28/06/2022 at 21:43, Bucoops said:

 

As @decauville1126 says, only Chris would be able to answer that one.

 

His current motors use the same mounting points as the Mashimas so hopefully that's not a reason for withdrawing the kit.

I’ve used the contact form and they seem to be suggesting that I would need one of the Mashima motors the kit was originally designed for, although I haven’t looked into alternatives yet (if there are reasonable alternatives). On that point, is this interchangeable with a Mashima 1024, or is it a slightly different design?

 

Or alternatively, is there anything else that can be used as a completely different alternative? I’m planning to run them on and off transporter wagons, so ideally need something where the gearing will clear the central spine of the wagon that comes up between the standard gauge rails (something that I think would be achieved by the High Level kit, as others have used it previously for the same purpose).

Edited July 10, 2022 by 009 micro modeller

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I’ve used the contact form and they seem to be suggesting that I would need one of the Mashima motors the kit was originally designed for, although I haven’t looked into alternatives yet (if there are reasonable alternatives). On that point, is this interchangeable with a Mashima 1024, or is it a slightly different design?

 

Or alternatively, is there anything else that can be used as a completely different alternative? I’m planning to run them on and off transporter wagons, so ideally need something where the gearing will clear the central spine of the wagon that comes up between the standard gauge rails (something that I think would be achieved by the High Level kit, as others have used it previously for the same purpose).

 

Just a thought, but could you use a comet 10 foot wheelbase wagon chassis and one of Chris's other motor/gearbox set ups, say, a drivestretcher?

 

Mike.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Just a thought, but could you use a comet 10 foot wheelbase wagon chassis and one of Chris's other motor/gearbox set ups, say, a drivestretcher?

 

Mike.

That might work. Another suggestion I’ve seen is to use something like a Nigel Lawton motor and belt drive. I eventually need 8 wagons but they don’t necessarily all have to be motorised in the same way; it’s the narrow gauge transporters where standardisation is more important.

[009 micro modeller]

Is there anything that would potentially work (and is available) for the Mashima motors that are out of production?

[nightstar.train]

Would something like this work, without the need for the kit? Cut a hole in the bottom of the wagon and attach two of the wheels to the shafts?

 

￡2.47  5％ Off | Micro Mini N20 Single/Dual Shaft  All Metal Gearbox Gear Motor DC3V-12V 4rpm-380rpm Slow Speed High Torque Electric Motor
https://star.aliexpress.com/share/share.htm?image=A057145831f564004aa3a02173ca7f615Y.jpg&businessType=ProductDetail&title=￡2.47 5％ Off | Micro Mini N20 Single%2FDual Shaft All Metal Gearbox Gear Motor DC3V-12V 4rpm-380rpm Slow Speed High Torque Electric Motor&platform=AE&redirectUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F10000008795281.html%3F%26srcSns%3Dsns_Copy%26tid%3Dwhite_backgroup_101%26businessType%3DProductDetail%26spreadType%3DsocialShare

[009 micro modeller]

10 hours ago, nightstar.train said:

Would something like this work, without the need for the kit? Cut a hole in the bottom of the wagon and attach two of the wheels to the shafts?

 

￡2.47  5％ Off | Micro Mini N20 Single/Dual Shaft  All Metal Gearbox Gear Motor DC3V-12V 4rpm-380rpm Slow Speed High Torque Electric Motor
https://star.aliexpress.com/share/share.htm?image=A057145831f564004aa3a02173ca7f615Y.jpg&businessType=ProductDetail&title=￡2.47 5％ Off | Micro Mini N20 Single%2FDual Shaft All Metal Gearbox Gear Motor DC3V-12V 4rpm-380rpm Slow Speed High Torque Electric Motor&platform=AE&redirectUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F10000008795281.html%3F%26srcSns%3Dsns_Copy%26tid%3Dwhite_backgroup_101%26businessType%3DProductDetail%26spreadType%3DsocialShare

I will have a look as this sounds like a good idea, and potentially much cheaper than the other solutions. I think I would get away with having only one axle in each wagon driven, which does give me a bit more flexibility.

 

From the page I can’t work out how big they are, or the diameter of the shaft.

Edited July 15, 2022 by 009 micro modeller

[nightstar.train]

16 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I will have a look as this sounds like a good idea, and potentially much cheaper than the other solutions. I think I would get away with having only one axle in each wagon driven, which does give me a bit more flexibility.

 

From the page I can’t work out how big they are, or the diameter of the shaft.

 

If you scroll down the page it has a diagram with principle dimensions. Shaft looks to be 3mm. If you search N20 motor on Aliexpress or eBay I'm sure you'll find lots of different options. It's a standard sort of range you get from China. 

[009 micro modeller]

28 minutes ago, nightstar.train said:

 

If you scroll down the page it has a diagram with principle dimensions. Shaft looks to be 3mm. If you search N20 motor on Aliexpress or eBay I'm sure you'll find lots of different options. It's a standard sort of range you get from China. 

Thinking about it, I may be better off driving the wagon axle with a belt or gear from the shaft rather than directly, purely because of the need to keep the space around the transporter wagon spine clear.

[009 micro modeller]

The motors have come, a bit quicker than I expected. They look good and reasonably well put together. The image shows how big they are in the context of a wagon (this particular wagon won’t be used but it helps to illustrate the basic idea).

 

 

 Assuming that I use suitable metal wheels with each side properly insulated from the other, I’m wondering whether I will get away with using the original plastic side frames of the (RTR or kit built) wagons, either with or without the addition of metal outside bearings, or whether I will need to construct some new brass frames for them? The gearbox should already gear them down to an appropriate speed but I will probably make use of a belt drive to the axle rather than driving them directly, in order to maintain clearances around the axle for running on the transporter wagon spine.

[009 micro modeller]

Just reawakening this topic briefly as I’ve now got to the stage where I’m actually attempting to motorise a wagon (with one of the motor plus gearbox combinations shown in my post above). It doesn’t really seem to be working, I’ve tried two slightly different arrangements and there are a number of issues probably related to either my ability to build the thing properly, the build quality of the RTR wagon being converted, or a combination of the two. However, at one point I did get it working a bit, but the wheels just spun. I used the wagon’s original wheels (metal obviously, but not originally designed to be used as driven wheels). Is the problem to do with the wheels? Alternatively I wonder whether the characteristics of the motor and gearbox are not especially suitable for model railway use (I was worried originally about getting low enough gearing, but now it might actually be a bit too low).

 

From contacting High Level, it appears that they will not be redesigning the Fly Shunter to suit a different motor instead of the Mashima 1424 and 1428 because of the difficulty of finding a suitable double ended motor but, assuming that I’m happy with only one axle being driven, does it need to be double ended? (I’m unfamiliar with the specifics of how the Fly Shunter goes together.)

 

As another option, is there a suitable motor bogie that could be used? Most of them seem to be a little bit too short (I need 40mm for 10ft, or 36 for 9ft wheelbase wagons). The one at bottom left here looks good if independently powered but is perhaps a bit expensive (I would need 5 of them). However, based on the suggestions for use I wonder if a slightly older, cheaper bogie off an RTR Hymek would be any use, and possibly even the right wheel diameter for some wagons?

[Bucoops]

Can they supply the etch/gears? I'm sure I can spare a 1424 (bought before prices went silly).

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Bucoops said:

Can they supply the etch/gears? I'm sure I can spare a 1424 (bought before prices went silly).

Are you sure? If you can spare one I’m very happy to pay. I believe they are able to supply etches, they just don’t openly list it for sale as not everyone will have the motors.

 

I am looking into other ways of doing it as well but the good thing about this part of the project is that, while it might be nice if all the motorised wagons were built in the same way, they don’t actually have to be.

[Bucoops]

51 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Are you sure? If you can spare one I’m very happy to pay. I believe they are able to supply etches, they just don’t openly list it for sale as not everyone will have the motors.

 

I am looking into other ways of doing it as well but the good thing about this part of the project is that, while it might be nice if all the motorised wagons were built in the same way, they don’t actually have to be.

 

I'd have to double check but my spreadsheet says I have a couple, and I can use other motors but if there's something that has to use that size then no issue for me. 

[009 micro modeller]

2 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

I'd have to double check but my spreadsheet says I have a couple, and I can use other motors but if there's something that has to use that size then no issue for me. 

Thank you so much! I did ask but they seemed to think it wouldn’t be possible for me to kitbash the etches to use a different type of motor. I will also check that they are still able to supply the etches.

[Bucoops]

Just waiting for clarification on what exact motor is needed. Meanwhile found this site that may be of use?

 

https://www.locosnstuff.com/Motor-Bogie-and-Chassis-kits.php

 

[009 micro modeller]

3 hours ago, Bucoops said:

Just waiting for clarification on what exact motor is needed. Meanwhile found this site that may be of use?

 

https://www.locosnstuff.com/Motor-Bogie-and-Chassis-kits.php

 

I will have a look at those but I think I saw them before and there might have been an issue with either the price or the wheelbase.

 

The motor for the Fly Shunter is either a Mashima 1424 or 1428 (I think depending on whether the wagon is 9ft or 10ft wheelbase, although I’m not bothered as I can choose a suitable wagon as needed).

[Bucoops]

I'm pretty sure I don't have any '28s. And for some reason there's two ways of describing them that could end up being 1424 so would prefer to confirm for certain. I *think* it's the larger one.

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Bucoops