Hornby Railways 1972 - 1996

[Robin Brasher]

From 1972-1996 models from Margate were called 'Hornby Railways'. The models still had the R prefix followed by three digits. The nickel silver track made magnadhesion obsolete as magnets did not attract the new track and the points had closer to scale frogs. As a result many of the locomotives had rubber tyres to improve adhesion and some had tender drive with a powerful ringfield motor. The wheels of the locomotives and rolling stock had closer to scale wheels. Hornby represented regional coaches with 4-wheel coaches and 57' bogie coaches which, in my view, fell short of the competition from Airfix and Mainline. Most of the wagons were private owner wagons which were also not as good as the competition. Hornby also introduced some new building kits.

 

I thought that the locomotives were mainly fairly accurate.  I liked the rotating pony trucks with flanged wheels. Surprisingly the Hornby Railways locomotives have stood the test of time better than the Airfix and Mainline models and better than the new Chinese Hornby models.  This is because the Hornby Railways locomotives were more robust and can still be repaired whereas I don't think that Hornby will repair locomotives over ten years old and spares for the Chinese Hornby models are hard to come buy.

 

The picture shows a BR Flying Scotsman from that era and I look forward to seeing other members' models.

[cypherman]

Hi Robin,

This is my latest Hornby Railways engine I got last weekend. One of many that I have.

Edited October 6, 2022 by cypherman

[andyman7]

At the other end of the spectrum is this 0-4-0 'starter' loco from 1974 - an early use of a far east can motor (as already being used at the time in Scalextric models made in the same factory) plus no separately fitted body parts at all in order to save costs. Very hard to find in this sort of condition as obviously most were played with to death!

[Steamport Southport]

10 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

At the other end of the spectrum is this 0-4-0 'starter' loco from 1974 - an early use of a far east can motor (as already being used at the time in Scalextric models made in the same factory) plus no separately fitted body parts at all in order to save costs. Very hard to find in this sort of condition as obviously most were played with to death!

 

That's the clockwork loco with a motor.

 

If you look on the side tank it has a blanked off hole where the key went.

 

 

Jason

Edited October 8, 2022 by Steamport Southport

[cypherman]

Hi all,

Not sure if these count. Did they last in to the Hornby Railways era? Or was it discontinued before that. The green engine has had a little bit of upgrading, But not much. Unlike the black one which got a complete repaint and some extra upgrading.

Edited October 8, 2022 by cypherman

[Steamport Southport]

I think the Princess was last available in 1974 in bright LMS red. They probably lingered on the shelves for a couple of years after. I certainly remember them being about.

 

Then they revamped it in the mid 1980s with tender drive and things like wire handrails.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/1342/hornby_oo_4_6_2_class_8p_princess_royal_lms?

 

 

Jason

[cypherman]

11 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

I think the Princess was last available in 1974 in bright LMS red. They probably lingered on the shelves for a couple of years after. I certainly remember them being about.

 

Then they revamped it in the mid 1980s with tender drive and things like wire handrails.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/1342/hornby_oo_4_6_2_class_8p_princess_royal_lms?

 

 

Jason

Hi,

Yes, I have one of those somewhere in my collection. But I think I bought it in the late 80s. I still have 2 complete chassis for the Princesses. One is the original steel plate framed. The other is a later mazak chassis.

Edited October 9, 2022 by cypherman

[Legend]

On 08/10/2022 at 23:52, Steamport Southport said:

I think the Princess was last available in 1974 in bright LMS red. They probably lingered on the shelves for a couple of years after. I certainly remember them being about.

 

Then they revamped it in the mid 1980s with tender drive and things like wire handrails.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/1342/hornby_oo_4_6_2_class_8p_princess_royal_lms?

 

 

Jason

yep 1974 was the last year the original Princess appeared in the catalogue . LMS Crimson with plated wheels . It’s final iteration . It was culled in 1975 along with a great many other models to concentrate production on fewer models to satisfy high demand . The Duchess , the Princesses successor appeared in 1977 then a tender drive Princess , originally with small Fowler tender appeared mid eighties . 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Legend

[railroadbill]

 

Here's one that fits your timescale, Robin,  Hornby Railways  R.350,  Mallard.

 

 

Got given this as a Christmas present in 1980.   Cost £13.75 in Beatties, as the label says. Tender drive, 6 wheel power unit with trailing axle. Pickup one side on loco drivers, the other side on the tender, as they did.  Didn't have a layout when I was given it, didn't run that well up and down a length of track but some years ago I dug it out again and with a bit of TLC got it running reasonably well on current layout.

 

The speed record badge and the works plate were good touchs for its era,  single colour lining though, as was the norm.

 

 

What really let it down though was the terrible shape of the streamlining nose.

 

There we are,  a bit of nostalgia from almost 42 years ago...

 

[Steamport Southport]

Yep. That was the model that to me said they were trying to up their game due to the competition.

 

Mainly due to this image.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[railroadbill]

 

Here is R350 again on the track.  I think the problem with the look of the front is that radius at the foot of the smokebox where it curves to meet the footplate.

 

 

This is the current Hornby A4 which gets a very difficult shape spot on in my opinion. An absolutely cracking model.

 

 

 

 

 

And a real blast from the past, a Hornby Dublo Mallard.  My very first 00 gauge loco, from the Flying Scotsman set, another Christmas present, this must be (glup) coming up to 64 years old..... actually think the streamlined nose is a better shape than R350, although that got the  curve of the top of the boiler better.

 

 

Curiously, looking down from above there isn't so much obvious difference.

From bottom up,

1. Hornby Dublo 3 rail Mallard

2. Hornby Railways R350 Mallard

3. Hornby Golden Plover

4.  Another Mallard, actually GBL (!)   The body is of course a copy of the current Hornby one anyway....

 

Apologies for drifting away from specifically Hornby Railways models, but interesting to see its place as similar oo gauge models have developed.

Edited October 9, 2022 by railroadbill

[railroadbill]

12 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Yep. That was the model that to me said they were trying to up their game due to the competition.

 

Mainly due to this image.

 

 

 

 

Jason

Looks like Hayling Island line in the background...  and a rather nice bridge the A4 is on.  The bridge rail does hide the worst of the  valve gear, the big fixing screw on the return crank and the large rivets in the front of the valve gear, which was the standard on later locos, but compared with say the earlier X03/4 loco drive Flying Scotsman it was a big step forwards.

[Il Grifone]

I think the main problem with the A4 front is the excessive buffer height together with the chunk of metal sticking out from the front of the bogie. The valve gear detracts as well.

The Dublo model is not bad at all, seeing it dates from 1938. The model had a minor revamp in 1958 becoming Mallard and gaining a double chimney and a headboard slot. My first Dublo A4 was 'Sir Nigel' for Xmas 1952, 3 weeks short of my 6th Birthday. To its makers immense credit, it still functions almost seventy years later, despite being well (mis)used in the first ten years of its life.

[andyman7]

On 08/10/2022 at 23:52, Steamport Southport said:

I think the Princess was last available in 1974 in bright LMS red. They probably lingered on the shelves for a couple of years after. I certainly remember them being about.

 

Then they revamped it in the mid 1980s with tender drive and things like wire handrails.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/1342/hornby_oo_4_6_2_class_8p_princess_royal_lms?

 

 

Jason

 

20 hours ago, Legend said:

yep 1974 was the last year the original Princess appeared in the catalogue . LMS Crimson with plated wheels . It’s final iteration . It was culled in 1975 along with a great many other models to concentrate production on fewer models to satisfy high demand . The Duchess , the Princesses successor appeared in 1977 then a tender drive Princess , originally with small Fowler tender appeared mid eighties . 

The final Princess issues from 1974 were a gloss black and gloss green version that harked back to the early days, as a way of commemorating the end of production. The black one came in a train set and as an individual item; whilst the green one I've only seen as an individual item. They had the late chassis and gloss lacquered bodies but had simplified valve gear and a gold foil printed 'Lion on Wheel' tender emblem, plus the 'Steamsound' feature.   

The 'new' Princess issues in 1984 came with the small Fowler tender in LMS guise and with the larger Stanier tender in BR guise - although it used many common items from the Ringfield-era models parts bin it had nothing in common with the original Princess.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

On 09/10/2022 at 23:44, railroadbill said:

Looks like Hayling Island line in the background...  and a rather nice bridge the A4 is on.  The bridge rail does hide the worst of the  valve gear, the big fixing screw on the return crank and the large rivets in the front of the valve gear, which was the standard on later locos, but compared with say the earlier X03/4 loco drive Flying Scotsman it was a big step forwards.

 

Yep, Langstone Harbour Bridge, with the old opening span.

Complete with Terrier hauled train.

 

The Mallard is posed in a section from the Grand Victorian Suspension Bridge, minus the support cable mouldings.

 

ᚱᚢᚠᚠᚾᚢᛏ × ᛏᚼᚬᚱᛋᛏᚬᚾ

🐉🙋🏼‍♀️

EDIT:

 

I did originally think that the black girder section Mallard is on was the Elevated Sidewalls...

 

Then I thought that they were too 'heavy' looking, and so thought of the Suspension Bridge...

 

Nope, I was right about the first time.

 

It IS the sidewalls!

 

Ruff, look a bit closer next time! 🤷🏼‍♀️

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Ruffnut Thorston
Error...

[railroadbill]

57 minutes ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

 

Yep, Langstone Harbour Bridge, with the old opening span.

Complete with Terrier hauled train.

 

The Mallard is posed in a section from the Grand Victorian Suspension Bridge, minus the support cable mouldings.

 

ᚱᚢᚠᚠᚾᚢᛏ × ᛏᚼᚬᚱᛋᛏᚬᚾ

🐉🙋🏼‍♀️

 

The bridge must be one of their longest running products as I think it's still available (or it's back again?)

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The newer iterations of the suspension bridge come with labels to give the towers some 2D textures. 🙂

 

Also, they still include the 'hoops' for the Phase 2 OHLE, overhead power wires.

You see them fitted, but without wires...

No one seems to know what they were for? 🤔

 

ᚱᚢᚠᚠᚾᚢᛏ × ᛏᚼᚬᚱᛋᛏᚬᚾ

🐉🙋🏼‍♀️

[railroadbill]

22 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

I think the main problem with the A4 front is the excessive buffer height together with the chunk of metal sticking out from the front of the bogie. The valve gear detracts as well.

The Dublo model is not bad at all, seeing it dates from 1938. The model had a minor revamp in 1958 becoming Mallard and gaining a double chimney and a headboard slot. My first Dublo A4 was 'Sir Nigel' for Xmas 1952, 3 weeks short of my 6th Birthday. To its makers immense credit, it still functions almost seventy years later, despite being well (mis)used in the first ten years of its life.

Well they were built to last....

The front of an A4 is very difficult to model (or indeed draw) as there are so many curved edges and it looks different from different viewing angles. On the other hand it's so distinctive that it's easy to get something sort of right and it can still only be an A4.

I believe that when A4s were being built the casings were just made to fit on the shop floor rather than following drawings to 100% accuracy so they were probably all a bit different anyway.

[BernardTPM]

I think that bridge may be made up from the R660 Elevated Track Sidewalls & decking as it has no attachment points for the bridge cables and a clip join section not present on the GVSB.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Thanks @BernardTPM

 

I did originally think that the black girder section Mallard is on was the Elevated Sidewalls...

 

Then I thought that they were too 'heavy' looking, and so thought of the Suspension Bridge...

 

Nope, I was right about the first time.

 

It IS the sidewalls!

 

Ruff, look a bit closer next time! 🤷🏼‍♀️

 

ᚱᚢᚠᚠᚾᚢᛏ × ᛏᚼᚬᚱᛋᛏᚬᚾ

🐉🙋🏼‍♀️

[cypherman]

Hi all again.

I have several H/D and early Hornby A4s. Plus a couple of Wrenn ones Here a 2 of them. A H/D A4, Was Silver King and now is Wild Swan after a repaint and the Hornby Mallard.

[Barclay]

Had the pannier tank as a youngster in the early '70s - must have been quite a new release at the time. It's had a hard life, but I think the basic shell still scrubs up OK.

 

 

[GoingUnderground]

On 11/10/2022 at 09:44, railroadbill said:

The bridge must be one of their longest running products as I think it's still available (or it's back again?)

 

The Grand Victorian Suspension Bridge first appeared in 1963 as R.264. It seems to have been renumbered twice, appearing as R.179 in the 1992 catalogue, and more recently as R.8008. It is the only item of the Phase 2 carenary system that you can still buy from new as the "hoops" are there to support the catenar ywire, and the underside of the top of the arch in the towers still has the clips to hold the catenary wire as well. Knowign how keen Margare has been to reduce costs I'm surprised that it is still supplied with the hoops as they have no purpose other than to support the catenary wire. I guess they must be part of the tooling for the suspension "cables" and it would cost more to remove them from the tool than it does to leave them in place.

 

There was a "cut-down" version introduced at the same time with just a single high central pier, R269, sold as the "Suspension Bridge Extension Set. If it had been bought and used the extend the main bridge, you'd have ended up with 2 end piers surplus to requirements.

 

But it isn't the longest lasting bridge. That honour goes to the single arch brick bridge R.189 which first appeared in the 1961 7th edition catalogue as "available later". It was 4/11 in old money in the 1962 price list, that converts into 24 1/2p. It's still available, still with its original catalogue number of R189, but the price is now £17.49 and apart from the track bed and parapet now being moulded in grey plastic, it is unchanged from 1961 AFAIK.

 

It's 3 arch counterpart, the brick viaduct, R.180, was also introduced in 1961, and was in the 2020 catalogue, also still with the same R number. I don't know if it lasted through 2021 into 2022, I thought that it had, but when I looked today it wasn't shown on the Hornby website.

 

Does anyone know if R189 and R180 were in every catalogue from 1961 through to 2020? Even if they weren't, 59-61 years is a very long time for any product to remain in production unchanged.

[GoingUnderground]

Talking of the catenary system, the Hornby Railways era saw the return of the phase 2 catenary system. It was slightly different to the earlier version. There were new and rather oversized-looking single masts which used the original nylon clips ("links"), for holding the catenary wire, unchanged, as were the cross-members of the double track portals. But the bases for the single masts were different as by then System 6 track with its "clip-fit" feature for attaching accessories to the track had gone and the single mast bases were of a "claw" type design that gripped the ends of the sleepers. The double track portals had redesigned uprights which gave greater clearance from the track and allowed them to be used on curved track, but at the price of only being offered with screw fixings. Both the uprights and the cross-members were moulded in grey, presumably to look like the galvanised prototypes.

 

I modified some of the screw fixing Hornby Railways portal bases to clip-fit to Super 4 track as you can see in the attached photo. There is a modified base to the fromt otf the green Triang portal upright on the right, with the original Triang era portal base behind the Hornby Railways upright fitted to one of my modified bases on the left.

Edited October 20, 2022 by GoingUnderground
Add photo and narrative for the photo

[railroadbill]

 

Fitting into Robin Brasher's timescale, the Hornby HST. I believe a very large number of these were made. This one is in the first Intercity livery before the "rasberry ripple" paint  was applied along the whole power car. 

 

 

This is the rake with Jouef coaches. This must be from a time when the new livery was just coming out 🙂. The Jouef coaches are the right length rather than the one bay too short Hornby ones.  They do still have buffers which the HST Mk3s shouldn't have so some work still to go. This is a 3 car set, I have actually traveled on a 3 car HST, one of the GWR 255 ones last year, (they are normally 4 cars) so a (modern) short rake is plausible. I've got another 3 Jouef coaches to add, but they need  work to bring them up to scratch and be able to use them.  (Original 253 had 7 cars which effectively makes the train 9 cars long with the power cars).

A friend modified a couple of original Hornby HSTs with CD motors, and TTS sound chips, he's got a Valenta and an MTU rake. They run very well, so there's still potential in upgrading the old ones.  My one has the ringfield motor,  got a spare ringfield power bogie that could be fitted to the trailer power car, or have 2 power units in the powered one.  I've also got a spare 4 wheeled power bogie as fitted to the current railroad HST (and indeed the 121 and 73 etc)  so some possibilities there with the original Hornby ones, a work in (slow) progress.

Just one ringfield power bogie isn't bad though, I have fitted extra pickups so runs more reliably.

 

 

Up and down HSTs cross at Ferndean Junction, a very obscure station on what must be the Western region as these are 253s.  (Those particular  full size power cars were allocated to Old Oak common HST depot).

 

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by railroadbill