GWR Coral A glass wagon info

[London cambrian]

Hi

 

Can any one tell me if there is a book on GW wagons that covers the Coral A 12t Glass wagon in detail.

 

Or alternatively if anyone knows anytihng useful or has pictures they could show me, then I would be grateful.

 

I'm looking to make a model of one in 4mm and 12th scales, so drawings would help.

 

I know there is one at didcot, Rusting in peace, but drawings would be preferable to crawling all over it!

 

Thanks

LC

[Kenton]

The usual reference to GW Wagons (Atkins, Beard & Tourret) contains a chapter (small) on them plus a split drawing of the D1 and D2 Diags plus a photo of a CORAL A No 41722 (c1941)

 

Also JH Russell (Pictorial Record of GW Wagons) has two photos one of the CORAL 41713 and CORAL A 41721

[Penrhos1920]

I think Ks did a kit in 4mm. But it's probably not particularly accurate.

[Il Grifone]

The K's kit is actually not too bad. It was one of the first kits I ever built back in the fifties.

 

The GWS example is here http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/wagons/41723/41723.html

 

It's in a terrible state. I have some photos I took years ago somewhere. IF (big if) I can find them and copy them (they're slides), I'll see if I can post them.

[Kenton]

The GWS example is here http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/wagons/41723/41723.html

I'm not sure if it looks that bad. Much of it looks superficial just requires effort time and TLC to restore.

 

Should have thought that it is not beyond the realms of human ability to take measurements for a brass kit to corner the market.

nudge nudge for anyone with such proficiency and a vacuum of ideas for the next kit ... ;)

[London cambrian]

I photographed the wagon when I was at GW175 there, and have been meaning to go back.

 

I plan to make it to 00 gauge, which could be a bit awkward as the well goes down between the wheels, and what with 00 gauge being far smaller than scale, it could end in disaster!

 

hen I make measurements for it I will also make one to 5 inch gauge, having a lot of interest in that scale in the family!

 

Where had it come from, before GWS. Was it at a steel works?

 

Also, is there a kit (preferably plastic) for a dean full brake, as i have seen them on several layouts (Also at didcot, under restoration)

 

Great if anyone can show pics. Thanks

 

LC

[Miss Prism]

Also, is there a kit (preferably plastic) for a dean full brake, as i have seen them on several layouts (Also at didcot, under restoration)

There was once a plastic K's kit for the K14/15/16 - the first ever plastic coach kit in 4mm IIRC (1967??), but you won't find one now. There has been an etched kit whose artwork has 'done the rounds', from Tony Hammond, and onto Frogmore, and may now I think be somewhere in the Shire Scenes territory.

[Adrian Wintle]

There was once a plastic K's kit for the K14/15/16 - the first ever plastic coach kit in 4mm IIRC (1967??), but you won't find one now. There has been an etched kit whose artwork has 'done the rounds', from Tony Hammond, and onto Frogmore, and may now I think be somewhere in the Shire Scenes territory.

 

I have a K's kit that I found in an estate lot in a partially complete state - it is a bit on the rough side, but pretty much the right shape (it should look fine after I completely rebuild it). Shire Scenes has the K15/16 listed on their website http://www.shirescenes.co.uk/index.html

 

Keykits/IKB also shows a brass kit for a K2/K28 http://www.keykits.net/Shop/catalogue.aspx?c=IKB&mc=3

 

Adrian

[Miss Prism]

Ah yes, thankyou, Adrian. That artwork looks, err, familiar.

[Kenton]

Where had it come from, before GWS. Was it at a steel works?

Most of the Diag.D1 were scrapped in early 1930's. The rest of the Diag.D1 and some of the Diag.D2 were allocated to Port Talbot for steel plate traffic. All the 20ft Diag.D1 were scrapped in Jan 1947. The "odd" wagon of lot361 surviving nationalisation.

 

I don't know the history of this one but I guess it eluded the scrapman's torch by some devious route. If it IS the only yexample I'm surprised that little effort has been made at preservation - preservation politics perhaps.

 

Just read that there was even a one off 6 wheeler ex Rhymney Railway - now theres an idea for Chris at Dragon models

[Il Grifone]

On 04/08/2010 at 19:09, Kenton said:

I'm not sure if it looks that bad. Much of it looks superficial just requires effort time and TLC to restore.

 

It just doesn't seem to be getting the TLC. When I saw it. there was still some paint.

 

Try eBay or the local swapmeet for the K's kit. IIRC it's a K14*. The differences between K14/5/6 were in the ends. K15 having gangways. Earlier ones had Dean 8'6" bogies, later American.

 

* The kit has the blank corridor ends and Dean bogies. The later are correct for K14 as built, but they did get swopped around.

 

EDIT:

Checked my references (which I should have done first!). K14 had five panel ends (like the Tri-ang clerestories) and K16 had the blank corridor end. This makes the bogies incorrect, but they did get swapped around or add the gangways for earlier lots of K15.

 

This kit came with pin point axles (A review commented on how free running it was!) Unfortunately this makes the bogies too wide. GW bogies were 5' 9" between frames (maybe not the Dean I'll check*) whereas the K's frames are about scale 6" thick. Vigorous thinning down makes all the difference. Care however as the whitemetal is quite delicate.

 

* Actually 5' 8½" with 5/8" frames for Dean bogies.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Il Grifone

[Phil Traxson]

It just doesn't seem to be getting the TLC. When I saw it. there was still some paint.

 

Try eBay or the local swapmeet for the K's kit. IIRC it's a K14*. The differences between K14/5/6 were in the ends. K15 having gangways. Earlier ones had Dean 8'6" bogies, later American.

 

* The kit has the blank corridor ends and Dean bogies. The later are correct for K14 as built, but they did get swopped around.

 

I'm pretty sure I have a couple of the 'K's K14 kits unbuilt in my pile, will have a look later. They are the last batch which were sold with plastic bogies and wheels both of which will need replacing(they weren't even state of the art when they were released!). I have a built one with the whitemetal bogies and decent wheels too which I might be persuaded to part with. Price to follow when I make sure I still have them, the unbuilt ones will be very reasonable PM me if you are interested.

 

Phil Traxson

[Welchester]

Try eBay or the local swapmeet for the K's kit.

 

As Il Grifone says, they do come up on Ebay. I've acquired a couple, one of which I'm in the process of building. The sides seem slightly bowed inwards, so will presumably required reinforcing; the kit has no floor.

 

I might try Coopercraft American bogies on the second; they made a huge difference to the running of a K's Siphon F.

 

(Sorry for the tangent)

[London cambrian]

I spoke to someone on the model railway (Model of cheltenham st james. Well worth a watch!) in Guilford MES's clubhouse, the full brake that lives on the back of their milk set was he said ratio or something.

 

I imagine that the coach in question must have been a conersio of brake coaches, because no one else has mentioned anything like that.

 

Question: why does everyone else have a pile of kits to do and I don't! All I have is a metropolitan E class minus destructions and a metropolitan railway Brake van.

 

Do the books have drawings in them Kenton?

 

I'm not too worried about bogies as my laout is low down so I'll rarely get to see them!

 

Thanks.

LC

[Kenton]

Question: why does everyone else have a pile of kits to do and I don't! All I have is a metropolitan E class minus destructions and a metropolitan railway Brake van.

The magpie instinct - anything shiny and brassy we cannot resist it even if it never gets built.

 

Do the books have drawings in them Kenton?

... plus a split drawing of the D1 and D2 Diags ...

But you can be forgiven for missing that as this topic has become rather confusing

[Adrian Wintle]

As Il Grifone says, they do come up on Ebay. I've acquired a couple, one of which I'm in the process of building. The sides seem slightly bowed inwards, so will presumably required reinforcing; the kit has no floor.

 

I might try Coopercraft American bogies on the second; they made a huge difference to the running of a K's Siphon F.

 

(Sorry for the tangent)

 

Another option may be the 247 Developments 8'6" Dean bogies - that is likely what will end up under mine (the Coopercraft bogies I have are all allocated to Siphons).

 

Adrian

[Miss Prism]

Having done a quick check, the K's kit end is a 'pseudo' corridor end style, so making it suitable only for a K15 (or K16 if you add a corridor connector). K15s did run on Dean bogies, but many received the 8' American style in their later years.

[Il Grifone]

As Il Grifone says, they do come up on Ebay. I've acquired a couple, one of which I'm in the process of building. The sides seem slightly bowed inwards, so will presumably required reinforcing; the kit has no floor.

 

I might try Coopercraft American bogies on the second; they made a huge difference to the running of a K's Siphon F.

 

(Sorry for the tangent)

 

The bowed sides are not uncommon (I have a K's B set which suffers from this - one day I'll get round to finishing it - stuck at the painting stage - 1922 livery!) For the van, the guard's compartment walls should solve the problem. No floor was the norm for K's, though the CORAL A has one.

 

Equalising the bogies and proper brass pinpoint bearings sort out even K's bogies. Metal K's wheels (aka Jackson) are fine. Plastic ones are good only for the bin or making filler.

[London cambrian]

Ooops thanks kenton.

 

Relevent veicles at GW175

[Welchester]

Another option may be the 247 Developments 8'6" Dean bogies - that is likely what will end up under mine (the Coopercraft bogies I have are all allocated to Siphons).

 

That's a thought. I'll look out for them next time I'm at a show.

 

I spoke to someone on the model railway (Model of cheltenham st james. Well worth a watch!) in Guilford MES's clubhouse

 

I'd be interested to see that; I remember it as a derelict site. Are there any photograph's on the web?

[melmerby]

The usual reference to GW Wagons (Atkins, Beard & Tourret) contains a chapter (small) on them plus a split drawing of the D1 and D2 Diags plus a photo of a CORAL A No 41722 (c1941)

 

Also JH Russell (Pictorial Record of GW Wagons) has two photos one of the CORAL 41713 and CORAL A 41721

 

There is picture of D2 Coral A No. 41721 in R. Tourret's other book: GWR Wagons before 1948 part 1 Diagrams A to P.

 

The two parts of this book are also a useful source of GWR wagon info. Published in paperback by Cheona in 2005 (pt1) & 2009 (pt2).

I believe the earlier 2 parter mentioned above is now out of print.

 

Keith

[Kits from Somerset]

As far as I can tell it belongs to the GWR 813 group not to the GWS trust

[London cambrian]

 

 

I'd be interested to see that; I remember it as a derelict site. Are there any photograph's on the web?

 

Not an accurate model as it has had to be bent around but intensively run. Its in the clubhouse of Guildford model engineering society. Great to watch, it shows both cheltenham st james and Malvern road. stations.

 

site feature

 

Some photos

Dedicated gallery

 

LC

[hayfield]

Here is a photo of the Keyser Coral A, a good model when produced. Etched frames would now be much better but that is far beyond my abilities, but would help me restore a second model I have which is a bit bent.

 

 

Only has the 2 outer frames, I guess 2 thinner inside ones could be fitted and perhapps a glass load. Would the glass be in wooden boxes?

[Kenton]

Would the glass be in wooden boxes?

Almost certainly well packed and roped in place. We are not talking BOUT very strong/toughened glass for the period of use 1884 - 1930's The width of the well was fixed though they did have partitions fitted later to reduce longitudinal movement.

 

Their later use for steel plate was probably more appropriate.