The world's first standard gauge railway uncovered

[roythebus]

Funding boost for what could be world's earliest railwayThe railway, dating back to the 1790s, was unearthed in Walker before Shepherd Offshore started redeveloping the former Neptune shipyard in 2013

[Joseph_Pestell]

There were certainly railways well before 1790.

[Titan]

There were certainly railways well before 1790.

 

But not built to standard gauge.

[durham light infantry]

But not built to standard gauge.

The "Standard gauge" promoted by Stephenson, was used by waggonways for 4hundreds of years and based on what the Romans left behind circa 400 A.D.

 

Mike

[John_Hughes]

The "Standard gauge" promoted by Stephenson, was used by waggonways for 4hundreds of years and based on what the Romans left behind circa 400 A.D.

 

Mike

 

Put a single horse between shafts on a wagon and guess how far apart the wheels will need to be, whether you've ever heard of 'standard gauge' or not!

[wagonman]

Put a single horse between shafts on a wagon and guess how far apart the wheels will need to be, whether you've ever heard of 'standard gauge' or not!

 

 

On that basis you could have anything from about 4ft 6in to 5ft, depending on the size of the horse. Indeed those gauges were used on various early railways – so you can't blame it all on the Romans!

[Rumblestripe]

But apart from that, what have the Romans ever done for us?

[stewartingram]

Well we do have them to blame for a large section of the present A14 in the Cambridge-Huntingdon area...

 

Stewart

[runs as required]

There were certainly railways well before 1790.

...and the Coalbrookdale Company first cast iron rails to replace rapidly wearing wooden rails as a hedge against a sudden slump in the price of iron in 1767 (on its 2 and 3ft gauge industrial tramlines)

 

There seems no Eureka moment in the emergence of the standard gauge from pre Roman times (e,g, the Maltese late stone age cart ruts):

 

So how/when did the extra ½” get added to George Stephenson’s preferred 4ft  8ins that he’d found around his  local Willington and Killingworth waggonways, and subsequently adopted for the S&D and the L&M ?

 

Geordie Stephenson was born in 1781* and grew up beside the 5’ 0” gauge Wylam line.  Jim Rees at Beamish reckons the Wylam engines (Puffing Billy etc.) are the oldest surviving early engines because, not being standard gauge, they simply got laid aside.

All early locos elsewhere get rebuilt and adapted. Black Billy used a true Trevithick cylinder – in making the Puffing Billy replica, Rees recognised that Puffing Billy incorporated an original Trevithick 36” long cylinder (from Trevithick's 1804 Gateshead loco) cut down to 24” so it could be water jacketed. 

He suggests this to be the provenance of the 2 ft length Stephenson loco cylinder.

 

dh

 

* Edit of typo pointed out in post #11

Edited August 25, 2016 by runs as required

[wagonman]

 

 

So how/when did the extra ½” get added to George Stephenson’s preferred 4ft  8ins that he’d found around his  local Willington and Killingworth waggonways, and subsequently adopted for the S&D and the L&M ?

 

 

dh

 

 

Possibly the same place as the extra 1/4inch on Brunel's GWR broad gauge?

 

 

Richard

[Coppercap]

...and the Coalbrookdale Company first cast iron rails to replace rapidly wearing wooden rails as a hedge against a sudden slump in the price of iron in 1767 (on its 2 and 3ft gauge industrial tramlines)

 

There seems no Eureka moment in the emergence of the standard gauge from pre Roman times (e,g, the Maltese late stone age cart ruts):

 

So how/when did the extra ½” get added to George Stephenson’s preferred 4ft  8ins that he’d found around his  local Willington and Killingworth waggonways, and subsequently adopted for the S&D and the L&M ?

 

Geordie Stephenson was born in 1671 and grew up beside the 5’ 0” gauge Wylam line.  Jim Rees at Beamish reckons the Wylam engines (Puffing Billy etc.) are the oldest surviving early engines because, not being standard gauge, they simply got laid aside.

All early locos elsewhere get rebuilt and adapted. Black Billy used a true Trevithick cylinder – in making the Puffing Billy replica, Rees recognised that Puffing Billy incorporated an original Trevithick 36” long cylinder (from Trevithick's 1804 Gateshead loco) cut down to 24” so it could be water jacketed. 

He suggests this to be the provenance of the 2 ft length Stephenson loco cylinder.

 

dh

 

 

When? I make it as 1781!

[runs as required]

When? I make it as 1781!

Thanks for pointing out that typo - I've gone back and edited

dh

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On that basis you could have anything from about 4ft 6in to 5ft, depending on the size of the horse. Indeed those gauges were used on various early railways ...

There's more to that roughly 5' maximum than enough width to fit around a horse's backside. There is potential advantage in going for yet wider wheel spacings to increase vehicle capacity - see the typical oblique set of cart wheels to increase the width of the load space above the axle seen in the final generations of UK farm vehicles - yet this dimension was where the general maximum stood from the beginnings of an industrial economy in the late Bronze age. Experience had taught that with the materials available, that was as long a reliable axle that could be made at an acceptable weight and cost.

 

It has only been the last 200 years of material science advance that have enabled progress beyond this point, leaving as permanent a 'fossil' of past limitation as could be desired in the standard gauge railway system.

[roythebus]

Maybe the odd bits of inch were manufacturing tolerances?  Looking at the drawings for my airport coach, the Park royal drwaings show a tolerance of +/- 1/8th inch betweek body pillars, so a 30' coach could be 30'1" long...

[pete_mcfarlane]

Maybe the odd bits of inch were manufacturing tolerances? Looking at the drawings for my airport coach, the Park royal drwaings show a tolerance of +/- 1/8th inch betweek body pillars, so a 30' coach could be 30'1" long...

See 'Nimrod MRA4 wings' for more details......

[tamperman36]

Middleton railway in Leeds dates back to 1758 and is the earliest railway to gain an act of parliament, however I don't know what the original track gauge was

Edited August 25, 2016 by tamperman36

[melmerby]

Middleton railway in Leeds dates back to 1758 and is the earliest railway to gain an act of parliament, however I don't know what the original track gauge was

4' 1" according to Wikipedia.

 

Started off with wooden rails which were replaced with iron from 1799.

 

Keith

[Talltim]

Another news article on the present situation

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/new-information-sheds-light-miraculous-14433768

[LMS2968]

The 'Standard' gauge was originally 4' 8", same as the distance between the flanges. The extra 1/2" was added to allow a clearance and reduce flange and what we now call gauge face wear.

[melmerby]

The 'Standard' gauge was originally 4' 8", same as the distance between the flanges. The extra 1/2" was added to allow a clearance and reduce flange and what we now call gauge face wear.

Also a 4' 8" waggon on a 4' 8" track would likely come off at the first curve it encounters.

 

keith

Edited March 21, 2018 by melmerby