Midland in London (or is it Birmingham?)

[Tricky]

Just seen this thread and read through. I must say I am very glad you decided to post it, your modelling is simply superb! I look forward to seeing more in the future.

 

Gary

Yep, what Gary said.

 

Thank you, both. Much appreciated...!

Richard

[muir]

Why is it when I think I'm doing well with my layout I see a masterpiece like this and want to rip mine up and move to a different hobby

Super atmosphere, just a stunner. 

[Tricky]

Why is it when I think I'm doing well with my layout I see a masterpiece like this and want to rip mine up and move to a different hobby

Super atmosphere, just a stunner.

 

Hi muir, you are too kind, I really appreciate it.

[Edwardian]

Thanks so much Edwardian, glad you like it. I presume 1907 is very much your era...?!

 

Yes, and for the Midland it means you avoid those large vulgar numerals on tender and tank sides!

 

(Strictly I'd say the present project was 1905, but nothing is very strict where the West Norfolk Railway is concerned!)

 

Really first rate work.  Beautifully observed and rendered.

[Compound2632]

Here's a question for any Midland experts: have I got the colours right on the ground frame, or should it be banana yellow like a box? And should it have a name board?

Thanks, Richard

 

How yellow is a banana after exposure to a late 19th/early 20th century industrial atmosphere? The colour is officially chrome yellow, a pigment based on lead (II) chromate, which supposedly darkens on exposure to sunlight. How it reacted with the toxic mix of an industrial atmosphere requires more research (see various discussions about red lead, lead grey, and Great Western wagon colours elsewhere on here). One thing is certain: your ground frame should be the same shade of yellow as your signal posts, as these were also chrome yellow.

 

I do like the ballast wagons.

[Tricky]

How yellow is a banana after exposure to a late 19th/early 20th century industrial atmosphere? The colour is officially chrome yellow, a pigment based on lead (II) chromate, which supposedly darkens on exposure to sunlight. How it reacted with the toxic mix of an industrial atmosphere requires more research (see various discussions about red lead, lead grey, and Great Western wagon colours elsewhere on here). One thing is certain: your ground frame should be the same shade of yellow as your signal posts, as these were also chrome yellow.

 

I do like the ballast wagons.

I reckon I could dirty the ground frame down a bit.

Here's a clearer photo of the ED ballast wagons...

[Northroader]

I didn't keep a note of what I got it from, but I've got it down as lemon yellow for signal boxes and presumably ground frames, and buff for signal posts. (?precision paints)

For small goods yard buildings, have you had a sniff round the background in the photos in Esserys OPC "Midland Wagons" you can find a few, but small and not very detailed, including wood outside framed picked out in contrasting paint.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Northroader

[Compound2632]

I have to apologise for quoting lead (II) chromate. I've looked up Midland Style by George Dow and R.E. Lacy (HMRS, 1975), p.47: "Finials and posts were painted lemon chrome (sometimes called banana yellow) which the effect of smoke, dirt and atmospheric action changed to a warmer light Cotswold hue. For about four feet from the ground, however, the bases of posts were painted a chocolate colour known as Venetian red and this was also used for the levers, weights, rods, rod guides, cranks, lamp staging, hand rails, brackets and ladders. Lamp cases were black." (The signalbox colours are also lemon chrome and venetian red.)

 

Lemon chrome is a paler yellow than chrome yellow; the pigment is barium chromate.

 

I have to admit that having seen this followed to the letter on e.g. Bob Essery's S7 layout, the effect can be rather overpowering...

[Tricky]

I have to apologise for quoting lead (II) chromate. I've looked up Midland Style by George Dow and R.E. Lacy (HMRS, 1975), p.47: "Finials and posts were painted lemon chrome (sometimes called banana yellow) which the effect of smoke, dirt and atmospheric action changed to a warmer light Cotswold hue. For about four feet from the ground, however, the bases of posts were painted a chocolate colour known as Venetian red and this was also used for the levers, weights, rods, rod guides, cranks, lamp staging, hand rails, brackets and ladders. Lamp cases were black." (The signalbox colours are also lemon chrome and venetian red.)

 

Lemon chrome is a paler yellow than chrome yellow; the pigment is barium chromate.

 

I have to admit that having seen this followed to the letter on e.g. Bob Essery's S7 layout, the effect can be rather overpowering...

Hi Compound2632, I agree about the Essery interpretation which I find too garish. Having re-read Midland Style I see you are quite correct about the use of Venetian red not crimson lake for the framing, but it's too late to change it now....! Oh well.

[Tricky]

So, the fruits of my labours over the past couple of days: the main structure of the goods office is ready for painting of the brickwork and stone. Once that is complete, it will be 'planted' and then roof slates and lead-work fixed up to the existing walls. The window and door are also finished ready to fix.

[MarshLane]

Hiya,

Sorry, don't know your first name, but that building is lovely.  How have you managed to get such an accurate uniform look to the brickwork?  Really nice, looking forward to see how you paint it!  If you don't mind asking, what have you used for the handle on the door?

 

Rich

[Tricky]

Hi Rich,

The short answer is, is that it isn't as difficult as it looks (in 7mm that is, not tried it in 4mm!). This is as described by Gordon Gravett in his series on 7mm modelling but basically once the Das surface is sanded flat I use a scrap of Slaters English bond plasticard to mark off the horizontal courses and scribe them across carefully making sure they stay parallel. Then using the plasticard again, mark off with pencil verticals of the stretchers (length-wise bricks), and scribe them in. All the headers (end-on bricks) are scribed in by eye. Easier to do than explain but hope that helps.

Richard

[Tricky]

The door knob is a scrap of 1mm brass rod 'turned' in the drill with needle files.

[wessy]

How yellow is a banana after exposure to a late 19th/early 20th century industrial atmosphere? The colour is officially chrome yellow, a pigment based on lead (II) chromate, which supposedly darkens on exposure to sunlight. How it reacted with the toxic mix of an industrial atmosphere requires more research (see various discussions about red lead, lead grey, and Great Western wagon colours elsewhere on here). One thing is certain: your ground frame should be the same shade of yellow as your signal posts, as these were also chrome yellow.

 

I do like the ballast wagons.

 

I think that in these clean air times it is easy to underestimate the effects of 'atmosphere' on paint, metals etc.. George Findlay, General Manager of the Premier Line (also known as the LNWR) wrote a fascinating book called 'The working and management of an English railway' (copies are available through Abe and probably other sites) with various editions published in the 1880s and 1890s. He wrote that the average life of the railway telegraph wires was about 10 years, but varied from 30 years in the pure air of Anglesey to no more than three years in the corrosive air around the chemical works of Widnes and St Helens. The effects on other surfaces can be imagined...

[3 link]

If you don't mind asking, what have you used for the handle on the door?

 

Rich

Morning Rich,

 

Just pop down to the local Haberdashery shop, and buy some brass pins, that's what the door knobs on my station are.

 

 

Martyn.

 

Ps, back in a minute, I will try and find a better photo.

Edited April 8, 2017 by 3 link

[3 link]

Hi Rich,

 

Here you go this shows them from a better angle, sorry for the hijack Tricky, normal service can now resume.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Martyn.

[Tricky]

Just thought I'd post a couple of pics of the goods office progress so far before the roof goes on, plus a random shot of the culvert.

Richard

[Tove]

 

What a cracking little shed,the colouring of the brickwork and lintels is first class.

The brick tones and colour`s are like the building`s that you`ll find in and around Ironbridge gorge,very C19th.....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/51045673@N00/3463374750/in/photolist-6h3GDL-2MfKEF-nZSLgK-6gYzre-oqHrTK-5f42kQ-jXEQUZ-7U4suQ-a36SSM-3c5h9K-5N8ChR-bcnR8k-N9Cw2-7nXNda-6NVVJ5-7U4Hdq-jj2kEc-aDREv1-aDMBAn-6BDMhR-aDVXNg-pqdvX-6BHV3s-hLRMt1-7Qfjtq-ayShPX-azdDBa-6BHUWC-9cvvoe-ahEDrx-pxkcM3-7nXNWR-cFRm3h-8Saoid-cKkYAL-N9Dz8-7tBQsd-7U4L69-antDPv-7vnMQa-d5T6sC-7o2PnW-7SEhKb-nyqR6K-cFRmD7-7tBWj3-5NcUQj-N9DZn-6NDtNq-8S7eQe

 

What are you using to colour the bricks,if you don`t mind.

 

Brian.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Tove

[Compound2632]

You had to post the second photo to prove the first was actually of your model and not the prototype!

[Tricky]

What a cracking little shed,the colouring of the brickwork and lintels is first class.

The brick tones and colour`s are like the building`s that you`ll find in and around Ironbridge gorge,very C19th.....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/51045673@N00/3463374750/in/photolist-6h3GDL-2MfKEF-nZSLgK-6gYzre-oqHrTK-5f42kQ-jXEQUZ-7U4suQ-a36SSM-3c5h9K-5N8ChR-bcnR8k-N9Cw2-7nXNda-6NVVJ5-7U4Hdq-jj2kEc-aDREv1-aDMBAn-6BDMhR-aDVXNg-pqdvX-6BHV3s-hLRMt1-7Qfjtq-ayShPX-azdDBa-6BHUWC-9cvvoe-ahEDrx-pxkcM3-7nXNWR-cFRm3h-8Saoid-cKkYAL-N9Dz8-7tBQsd-7U4L69-antDPv-7vnMQa-d5T6sC-7o2PnW-7SEhKb-nyqR6K-cFRmD7-7tBWj3-5NcUQj-N9DZn-6NDtNq-8S7eQe

 

What are you using to colour the bricks,if you don`t mind.

 

Brian.

Hi Brian, I use humbrol enamels with a light off white wash first, then dry brush quite an orange followed by picking out various brick reds, blues, and infinite variations in between. It all looks a bit garish until I then tone down the mortar with careful application of a dirty thinned colour immediately dabbed off and smudged around with a cotton bud. Less is more or it ends up all over drab before you know it.

Hope that helps,

Richard

[Tricky]

You had to post the second photo to prove the first was actually of your model and not the prototype!

Natural daylight works wonders with my iPhone photography!

[Tove]

Hi Brian, I use humbrol enamels with a light off white wash first, then dry brush quite an orange followed by picking out various brick reds, blues, and infinite variations in between. It all looks a bit garish until I then tone down the mortar with careful application of a dirty thinned colour immediately dabbed off and smudged around with a cotton bud. Less is more or it ends up all over drab before you know it.

Hope that helps,

Richard

Thanks Richard for the explaination.

 

Your finish and attention to detail with the scribbed das on the shed,make me want to have a go at this technique for myself!.

Cheers,

 

Brian.

[Tricky]

Thanks Richard for the explaination.

 

Your finish and attention to detail with the scribbed das on the shed,make me want to have a go at this technique for myself!.

Cheers,

 

Brian.

Great! Have a go! Two bits of advice; first get Gordon Gravett's books on 7mm modelling if you haven't and second start small!!

All the best, Richard

[Tricky]

What a cracking little shed,the colouring of the brickwork and lintels is first class.

The brick tones and colour`s are like the building`s that you`ll find in and around Ironbridge gorge,very C19th.....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/51045673@N00/3463374750/in/photolist-6h3GDL-2MfKEF-nZSLgK-6gYzre-oqHrTK-5f42kQ-jXEQUZ-7U4suQ-a36SSM-3c5h9K-5N8ChR-bcnR8k-N9Cw2-7nXNda-6NVVJ5-7U4Hdq-jj2kEc-aDREv1-aDMBAn-6BDMhR-aDVXNg-pqdvX-6BHV3s-hLRMt1-7Qfjtq-ayShPX-azdDBa-6BHUWC-9cvvoe-ahEDrx-pxkcM3-7nXNWR-cFRm3h-8Saoid-cKkYAL-N9Dz8-7tBQsd-7U4L69-antDPv-7vnMQa-d5T6sC-7o2PnW-7SEhKb-nyqR6K-cFRmD7-7tBWj3-5NcUQj-N9DZn-6NDtNq-8S7eQe

 

What are you using to colour the bricks,if you don`t mind.

 

Brian.

I was hoping the brickwork would look a bit more like London than Birmingham (see earlier posts for the explanation...!) according to an earlier poster it was looking a bit more like Yorkshire than London docks- a fair point as the bridge is a prototype from up that way! Still juggling to justify location in London (my preferred) in my mind. Help from anyone please!!!

[Tove]

I guess i should have worded it as 'reminds me of....'.

 

When i think i London,i think of the yellowish bricks that (to me) seem typical of the buildings down that way.But as the link show`s it seem`s to be dependant on when a building was built...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/maggiejones/3319290003/in/album-72157606494889854/

 

This one has the yellowish bricks i was refering to,along with a building in a darker brick.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/maggiejones/4391550735/in/album-72157606494889854/

 

The pictures above are from this flick group;https://www.flickr.com/photos/maggiejones/albums/72157606494889854

There are quite a few interesting pictures in it from the quick look i`ve had,so you might find something of interest in it yourself?.

 

But anyway, i would imagine that London was a pretty dirty place around the turn of the C19th,so your shed will be right at home in the goods yard.

 

 

Hope i haven`t confused thing`s any further!.

 

Brian.