Castle Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Hi All, As part of the Little Didcot project, there will have to be a model of No. 82917: http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/wagons/82917/82917.html Now, the question is, does anyone to transfers for such implements in 4mm scale? I have seen a great picture here: http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms2756.htm The thing is, I don't want to be writing all of this text in single letters as that way madness lies! I don't remember seeing one of these modelled on RMWEB (cue many, many examples from more informed people than me!) but they are not a difficult conversion, particularly the Didcot example as it is just a MINK with a few windows let in! I think they are an interesting topic in their own right too... Many thanks and all the best, Castle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 The wheelbase looks longer than that of a V11. As for custom transfers, I'm told that folk speak highly of Railtec. This may also provoke a response from CCtrans of this parish. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted April 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 1, 2017 I'm not entirely sure of the process drawing up artwork, but I cannot speak highly enough of the service from Railtec Assuming you can find the font, I assume it's as simple as writing the text on a transparent background in a drawing program then sending the artwork over Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted April 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 1, 2017 (edited) This van in the first photo does look short but I am sure others I have seen look longer than a standard GWR van, as does the one in the second photo. Are you sure the first photo has not been "squeezed" a bit? According to Atkins et al early Pooley vans were Diagram CC2 - 18 ft long with 11 ft wheelbase, though these were similar to Iron Minks in style. The book is a bit vague on later replacements. I says "Thus CC5 were four V12-type vans, with narrow doors like CC2, for Pooleys. And later "in December 1922 an ex_Cambrian Railways meat van was converted for Pooley's use in the Newtown, Montgomeryshire, District. No other vans are listed for Pooley's use. Jonathan Edited April 1, 2017 by corneliuslundie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 This van in the first photo does look short but I am sure others I have seen look longer than a standard GWR van, as does the one in the second photo. Are you sure the first photo has not been "squeezed" a bit? According to Atkins et al early Pooley vans were Diagram CC2 - 18 ft long with 11 ft wheelbase, though these were similar to Iron Minks in style. The book is a bit vague on later replacements. I says "Thus CC5 were four V12-type vans, with narrow doors like CC2, for Pooleys. And later "in December 1922 an ex_Cambrian Railways meat van was converted for Pooley's use in the Newtown, Montgomeryshire, District. No other vans are listed for Pooley's use. Jonathan Pooley had all sorts of wagons and van conversions, a small selection http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=pooley PAul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 2, 2017 Author Share Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) Hi All, The wheelbase looks longer than that of a V11. As for custom transfers, I'm told that folk speak highly of Railtec. This may also provoke a response from CCtrans of this parish. Chris Cheers Chris! I had a cursory look over the CCtrans list and couldn't see anything but I am a twit on occasion and I have been known to miss stuff before... I will measure No. 82917 next weekend and report back on what it is. If I do some dimensions and sketches of the windows, anyone can have a go at the project then. I have some etched 'W' irons and whitemetal bearing / Spring castings anyway so a rearrangement is possible in the underframe department if required! I'm not entirely sure of the process drawing up artwork, but I cannot speak highly enough of the service from Railtec Assuming you can find the font, I assume it's as simple as writing the text on a transparent background in a drawing program then sending the artwork over Another vote for Railtech - thanks Rich! This van in the first photo does look short but I am sure others I have seen look longer than a standard GWR van, as does the one in the second photo. Are you sure the first photo has not been "squeezed" a bit? According to Atkins et al early Pooley vans were Diagram CC2 - 18 ft long with 11 ft wheelbase, though these were similar to Iron Minks in style. The book is a bit vague on later replacements. I says "Thus CC5 were four V12-type vans, with narrow doors like CC2, for Pooleys. And later "in December 1922 an ex_Cambrian Railways meat van was converted for Pooley's use in the Newtown, Montgomeryshire, District. No other vans are listed for Pooley's use. Jonathan Cheers Jonathan! I have a Parkside MINK kit ready for this job, so I can hold it up to some drawings in my copy of the bumper GWR wagon fun book and have a look! As I said above, a definitive measure on the real thing will occur and I will report back on findings before I cut plastic... Pooley had all sorts of wagons and van conversions, a small selection http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=pooley PAul As always, the amazing Mr Bartlett and his wagon photo bible to the rescue! Thanks Paul! There are some ace liveries among that lot aren't there? I was going with the 'Western Region version of GWR' look in my second link but the more I look at that bauxite with black ends, the more I am tempted. Pondering time me thinks... As I have said, I will report back and let you all know about the measurements of the real thing as it could be a good conversion for those that want an fairly minimal but really interesting conversion job in their collections! There will of course be a full write up on Little Didcot when I get round to building the thing too. All the best, Castle Edited April 2, 2017 by Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 Hi All, As this looks like a very easy conversion, I think that people would like to have a go. With my privileged access, I can crawl all over the wagon at will so we shall share what we have. Here is the information from the DRC website about No. 82917: "This vehicle was originally built as standard covered van to Diagram V.12 on Lot 652 in 1911. In 1934 it was rebuilt as a Workshop Van on Lot 1148 (No new diagram was issued). It is one of four such vehicles built, which were used as mobile workshops by Henry Pooley & Co. to service and calibrate their many weighing machines and scales throughout the Great Western system." "This vehicle was owned by the late David Rawlinson, who based it initially at Steamport, Southport and then at Preston Dock. On his death it was bequeathed to the Great Western Society and moved to the Railway Age at Crewe in March 2004 where restoration was started under the auspices of the Society's North West Group. The vehicle was moved to Didcot in October 2008." "The vehicle is in generally sound condition, though requires thorough cleaning, and painting in original livery." We have a number of photos and such like to have a look at so here we go: Pooley Wagon No.82917 (ex MINK to Dia. V12) Dimensions as preserved at DRC. Side windows: Frame (3 1/2") deep Height 3' Width 31" Top window height from inside top of frame 10 1/4" Middle bar 3/4" Side end grab rail 21" Steps under doors 64 1/2" long Standard GWR Door windows are in standard door frame with bottom rail 30 1/2" to 2 1/2" centre rail. End Windows Frame 3 1/2" deep Glass aperture measured from inside is 11 1/4" from centre of curved roof frame, 33" high and 21 1/2" wide This is as it stands with measurements taken from the loco works side. Bit of a photo tour now: Top right window, loco works side. Lamp Iron and grab handle below window - note position of handle... Brake lever and step below sole bar. The step and handle is to allow the fitting and removal of the lamps. Handle again. Middle left door window. Centre door again. Notice how there is one external handle and one internal handle to aid climbin the steps from ground level. Left hand handle is in a different spot for some reason. This is the same on the other side so it was done on purpose! Step and lamp irons are the same as the other end. Steps are also the same as fitted to the FRUIT type wagons although possibly a different length. Dimensions above. They are under both sets of doors and are central on the wagon. Window at the London end of the wagon. Coupling and buffers at Oxford end of the wagon. Screw link couplings. Axle box detail. Here is the demonstration road side of the vehicle which exposes a question... That's right - a cheeky drop light window! So, the question is, drop lights in all four door windows or just two or indeed, is it just the one? Let's open the discussion on that as I have no period photos of this one to hand at all! I will edit this post as required. I think that the drop lights are available as part of the BEETLE special cattle van in the Parkside range as the doors in this one are separate. I am of the opinion that it is one each side. The reason being that the difference in height of the lower beam in the doors is the same both sides. This is by the thickness of the beam, hence no dimension! I would be glad to hear opinions. Let's see those Pooley Van models folks! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 If you find an old pair of boots or boilersuit in there I don't want them back. We used to use it as a changing room at one point. It's intended use was as a tool van for the restoration of 5193 and others. It was sad that Dave died at such an early age. He was a thoroughly nice chap. Had many conversations with him about all things GWR when the majority of members were LMS orientated. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Riley Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 There was a drawing for a Western Pooley van in MRC January 1960 (no 82924) and a photo provided by a reader in March 1960 (no 82872). No sign of drop lights on either of these. Generally similar to the DRC one but without vertical handrails at the ends and they have vertical wooden strips in the centre of the windows. Mike 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 Hi Mike, It looks like there were several versions of these beasts doesn't it? The one you describe sounds like the side windows are like the majority of the side windows in the main wagon index. The frames in the DRC example don't look like they are new and the horizontal bits are in all of the side windows so I'm inclined to believe them as being at least fairly old - they have quite a few layers of paint on. We are dealing with an old wagon and an old wagon that was built 'off the diagrams' too... The wierd thing is that I don't think that you would add a drop light as part of a repair but you might take it out and throw it away as part of a 'it's too much hassle for this old thing which will be going for scrap soon anyhow' type repair. The fact that it looks well done and the fact that the two door sets match apart from this, lead me to suppose that it should be there. None of the other Pooley type van diagrams have anything like this but the tool / pilot and riding vans do so its not totally without president. Pete S. Will be along soon to tell me otherwise... All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 I knew this van well. It was originally preserved by Derek Foster as the store/workshop for the restoration of his Jinty 47298 (as shown in the attached photo). I believe the van was converted into a weighing machine maintenance vehicle for the Chester district but was used latterly at Bold Colliery and Pilkington's Cowley Hill works, St.Helens. Derek bought it from the Central Wagon Co. in 1978. Around 1980 he replaced it with another Pooley Van, this time a 6wh. vehicle converted from an ex LNWR CCT. Dave Rawlinson bought 82917 and (mostly) repainted it in GW chocolate but I'm pretty sure he didn't alter anything else. Yes, it was a great tragedy that Dave died so young (and unnecessarily) - we spent a lot of happy times together. Ray. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 I knew this van well. It was originally preserved by Derek Foster as the store/workshop for the restoration of his Jinty 47298 (as shown in the attached photo). I believe the van was converted into a weighing machine maintenance vehicle for the Chester district but was used latterly at Bold Colliery and Pilkington's Cowley Hill works, St.Helens. Derek bought it from the Central Wagon Co. in 1978. Around 1980 he replaced it with another Pooley Van, this time a 6wh. vehicle converted from an ex LNWR CCT. Dave Rawlinson bought 82917 and (mostly) repainted it in GW chocolate but I'm pretty sure he didn't alter anything else. Yes, it was a great tragedy that Dave died so young (and unnecessarily) - we spent a lot of happy times together. Ray.1 47298 & Pooley van Jan 1980.jpg Hi Ray, Thanks ever so much for the information and the great picture of the van with the Jinty. Seems like I have missed out on some great conversations with the late Mr Rawlinson. At least his rolling stock lives on. Funnily enough, the Pooley is now being used as H.Q. for No. 1014 County of Glamorgan so it continues to serve, in some small way, in her original function! All the best, Castle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Re the handrail posistions. Could it simply be an allowance for the fact that most people are right handed? Arrive with lamp in carried in right hand. Place left hand on handrail, right foot on step, pull up to standing on step. Reach up/across with right hand to place lamp. At the Right hand end of the van if the handrail was closer to the end it would be on the wrong side of the person's body. Maye something to try next time your climbing over it Castle? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 Hi Darwinian, Good idea, only one problem - I'm left handed! I am on duty at DRC tomorrow and Sunday (please come and say hello if anyone is going to be there, I will be Duty Manager) so I can give it a go. Ergonomic Pooley Wagon perhaps?! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted April 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 16, 2017 Good idea, only one problem - I'm left handed! But they didn't have namby pampy do-gooder political correctness back then so you would have just learned to do it the right way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share Posted April 16, 2017 Hi Ric, Cheeky! Us poor left handed types... I knew there was something I forgot to do today... In my defence, I was in charge of the site today and I got to enjoy this: Next Saturday... All the best, Castle 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted December 25, 2017 Author Share Posted December 25, 2017 Hi All, Just to let you know that: 1 The lamp thing is a bit easier with the handles the way they are - good suggestion! 2 The model is now finished and posted on the Little Didcot thread here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/51212-little-didcot/page-43 All the best, Castle 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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