Hessle Haven

[mikemeg]

VERY tasty Mike.

I assume its a High Level gearbox in the J72?

 

Certainly is, Iain. These gearboxes are about as good as it gets and, once the final drive gear is secured to the driven axle and the gears meshed in, they are virtually silent. The J72 in the photograph will actually push that lot up a 1 in 50 with almost no reduction in speed and this at a scale 1 - 2 mph. I'm just completing a J71 (from the Bachmann J72 body) with the same arrangement and this has similarly prodiguous pulling and pushing ability.

 

Usual disclaimer - I've no connection with High Level Models; just a very satisfied user.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[jwealleans]

I'm just completing a J71 (from the Bachmann J72 body)

 

That's interesting, Mike - can I prevail upon you to illustrate it? I have one in the queue for after I've completed Arthur's J73 and I haven't yet settled on how to motorise it. It will be a High Level gearbox of some sort. What motor have you used and is there room for a flywheel?

[mikemeg]

That's interesting, Mike - can I prevail upon you to illustrate it? I have one in the queue for after I've completed Arthur's J73 and I haven't yet settled on how to motorise it. It will be a High Level gearbox of some sort. What motor have you used and is there room for a flywheel?

 

Jonathan,

 

The motor is the Mashima 1224, with a High Level 108 : 1 gearbox. I didn't fit a flywheel though it is possible to get one in with some judicious removal of the side tank mouldings inside the body. With this gearing and, provided that the chassis is free running, I felt I didn't need a flywheel. The loco will run at crawling speed but still has sufficient torque to pull or push a reasonable load at these very slow speeds. I did cram as much weight as I could into these but they still only weigh in at around 7 ozs.

 

I should add that both this chassis and the J72 chassis are sprung; that makes a hell of a difference to the haulage capability, though the driven axle is rigid on both locos.

 

These chassis' also use a combination of metal and plasticard frame spacers. I find it much easier to fit pickups to a plasticard base than to try and isolate them from the metal frame spacers.

 

The Bachmann body has new front splashers, sprung NER taper buffers, new handrails and safety valves. I still have to make the new footplate steps and tank front handrails plus a few other details but, hopefully, the photo below gives some idea. Still a bit to do on this J71 chassis as well!

 

Hope this helps.

 

I took the photo, earlier in the thread, as I was doing my six monthly service of all of my locos - cleaning wheels and pickups, removing gunge and just oiling around the locos.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[James]

Mike, that looks rather nice; unless I've missed something above, may I ask if you used any of the Mainly Train parts? Just curious as I have a part finished J71 using their parts as a basis - part of the 'convoy' of locos going between the Docks and Dairycotes for servicng through Botanic, which you may remember from you youth in Hull!

[mikemeg]

Mike, that looks rather nice; unless I've missed something above, may I ask if you used any of the Mainly Train parts? Just curious as I have a part finished J71 using their parts as a basis - part of the 'convoy' of locos going between the Docks and Dairycotes for servicng through Botanic, which you may remember from you youth in Hull!

 

James,

 

Yes, both the J71 and J72 use the Mainly Trains etched chassis. These kits also contain a white metal casting for the boiler bottom and rivetted buffer beams. I did modify the chassis a little, especially the J72, to get the correct ride height but only slightly.

 

And yes, I well remember those 'convoys' of shunters from Alexandra Dock shed to Dairycoates though I only ever saw it once or twice with three or four locos - J71, J72's and a J73.

 

And I never did see Jubilees on freight over the high level, though I'm told that Dairycoates did use these 6P's and even 7P's on such trip workings.

 

It's one of the consolations of growing old, that I was around to see those days!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[micknich2003]

I can confirm a Royal Scot worked to King George Dock c1960.Almost certainly via Victoria Dock Branch, it would be too heavy for the H&B route. Mick.

 

 

James,

 

Yes, both the J71 and J72 use the Mainly Trains etched chassis. These kits also contain a white metal casting for the boiler bottom and rivetted buffer beams. I did modify the chassis a little, especially the J72, to get the correct ride height but only slightly.

 

And yes, I well remember those 'convoys' of shunters from Alexandra Dock shed to Dairycoates though I only ever saw it once or twice with three or four locos - J71, J72's and a J73.

 

And I never did see Jubilees on freight over the high level, though I'm told that Dairycoates did use these 6P's and even 7P's on such trip workings.

 

It's one of the consolations of growing old, that I was around to see those days!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[jwealleans]

That's very helpful, Mike, thanks. That's a humpshunter, I deduce? I can only use a few of the HL gearboxes as I cling to my insistence on a grubscrew or some other non-destructive means of taking things apart again. I can see a Road Runner Plus going in there just as well, though.

 

I'll keep an eye on ride height. No other problems with it, I assume?

[mikemeg]

That's very helpful, Mike, thanks. That's a humpshunter, I deduce? I can only use a few of the HL gearboxes as I cling to my insistence on a grubscrew or some other non-destructive means of taking things apart again. I can see a Road Runner Plus going in there just as well, though.

 

I'll keep an eye on ride height. No other problems with it, I assume?

 

Jonathan,

 

No other problems. The J72 had its buffers located at the top of the buffer beam to match the buffer height of wagons and coaches. So as long as the buffers are as high on the buffer beams as can be accommodated, then the ride height will be fine.

 

When I first used the High Level gearboxes, I had the same reservations as you i.e. the difficulty of removing the final drive gear from the driven axle. I have had to remove one of these gears and here I had to take the wheels off the axle and then remove the axle from the gear. I did this by carefully scraping the loctite from around the axle and gearwheel with a new, sharp craft knife blade, rather than trying to tap it out.

 

I also found that filing a small notch, not a flat, in the axle where the gear wheel sits aids the process of loctiting (is there such a verb?) the gear wheel to the axle.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

While on the subject of J71's and J72's, I recently bought another Bachmann J72 body for 50p from the 'odds and sods' stall at an exhibition. The plan for this is to use it to build one of the earlier, LNER built, J72's numbered in the 87xx (1946 numbering) / 687xx range. So, if anyone's interested I'll post a thread under Scratch Building and kit Building, once I've finished the other loco projects currently ongoing.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[jwealleans]

That's a yes from me!

[ArthurK]

One thing to watch out for is that the J72s built by the LNER (and later BR) differed from the NER builds in that the bunkers were six inches longer. I am not sure which was used in the Bachman model but I suspect it was the longer version. The J71s had the shorter bunker and substanially the same as the early J72s.

 

As an aside, as a rule the running plates of the smaller engines was at 4 feet from rail level with the buffers raised three inches on the buffer beam. The larger engines had a running plate or bufferbeam top set at at 4'3" with the buffers correspondingly lower on the beam. The is a well known photo of a J77 with its bufferbeam mounted upside down!

 

ArthurK

[mikemeg]

Just curious as I have a part finished J71 using their parts as a basis - part of the 'convoy' of locos going between the Docks and Dairycotes for servicng through Botanic, which you may remember from you youth in Hull!

 

I can't reproduce the 'convoys' of locos going through Botanic but here's the nearest I can get.

 

A convoy of Dairycoates shunting locos off to the works. 69915 and 69003 for overhaul; the J71 to be completed. So when these return to Hull, Darlington should have completed the J71 and painted it.

 

The J39 has just been the subject of an 'upgrade' with new springing on the chassis; there was plenty of power (Mashima 1620 and Comet 50:1 gearbox) but nowhere near enough tractive effort. Now it will pull/push upwards of thirty five wagons so is just about acceptable.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

Hi Mike

 

This is all beautifully modelled; you must have been an accomplished modeller before you gave it up 30 or so years ago.

 

I simply have to say, Mike, that this is probably the most realistic method of producing brick work that I've ever seen - Scalescene's quality but with the bonus of embossed sheeting.

 

I'd dearly love to have a go, and therefore, hope you don't mind me asking:

 

a) what particular colours did you use e.g. burnt umber, sienna etc. ?

 

B) what implement did you use for a scriber - if, indeed, this is a purpose built tool, what make is it and from where can it be purchased ?

 

c) what type of card did you use?

 

d) what did you use as a stippler?

 

Sorry for the distraction, but this is a modelling 'opportunity' NOT to be missed.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jonte

 

Jonte,

 

Many thanks for the comments above and I was simply going to accept the compliments and leave it at that. But I notice one or two things, across this forum generally, that might be worth commenting on :-

 

For me there are a few (and it is a few) posters whose work I find truly inspirational. These posters work in all of the scales (2mm, 4mm, 7mm) and are certainly not just the P4 folk in 4mm; there are some wonderful 'OO' models and modellers. Interestingly, many of the posters whose work I so admire, are now posting much less than they did, though I can't believe that they have stopped making models, so where have they gone?

 

I also notice that some of the more regular posters are now raising topics to elicit much more balanced and objective responses. Instead of seeking the 'Oh that looks nice' responses, they are now asking "how good is this model?" or "what's wrong with this" and, in so doing, are risking some very objective responses "well it looks nothing like the prototype, so throw it away and start again" or "the idea's good; shame about the workmanship".

 

My own modelling ethic is very simple :-

 

Locate the best models and modellers, in any discipline, and set the objective of matching or exceeding the quality of their work. This by reading, understanding and analysing exactly how they do what they do, learning and mastering their techniques and then identifying where improvements to those techniques can be made.

 

Clearly, I will probably never achieve this but I will never stop the pursuit and will never be satisfied until I feel I have reached my limits. Many of my earliest (and some later) models have simply been thrown away - they were just not good enough. Now, thankfully, I don't throw much away but there is still room for considerable improvement and improvements in techiques, in accuracy and workmanship will continue to be sought.

 

But, ultimately, this is the nature of this beast (me), whether it be the model making, the pictures which I paint and draw, or my various other interests.

 

On one thread, I read on here, someone said "I don't want to be seen as one of those irritating people who seem to do everything well (quote)". Well, quite simply, I do want to be one of those irritating folks and will vigorously pursue that objective.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Guest jonte]

Jonte,

 

Many thanks for the comments above and I was simply going to accept the compliments and leave it at that. But I notice one or two things, across this forum generally, that might be worth commenting on :-

 

For me there are a few (and it is a few) posters whose work I find truly inspirational. These posters work in all of the scales (2mm, 4mm, 7mm) and are certainly not just the P4 folk in 4mm; there are some wonderful 'OO' models and modellers. Interestingly, many of the posters whose work I so admire, are now posting much less than they did, though I can't believe that they have stopped making models, so where have they gone?

 

I also notice that some of the more regular posters are now raising topics to elicit much more balanced and objective responses. Instead of seeking the 'Oh that looks nice' responses, they are now asking "how good is this model?" or "what's wrong with this" and, in so doing, are risking some very objective responses "well it looks nothing like the prototype, so throw it away and start again" or "the idea's good; shame about the workmanship".

 

My own modelling ethic is very simple :-

 

Locate the best models and modellers, in any discipline, and set the objective of matching or exceeding the quality of their work. This by reading, understanding and analysing exactly how they do what they do, learning and mastering their techniques and then identifying where improvements to those techniques can be made.

 

Clearly, I will probably never achieve this but I will never stop the pursuit and will never be satisfied until I feel I have reached my limits. Many of my earliest (and some later) models have simply been thrown away - they were just not good enough. Now, thankfully, I don't throw much away but there is still room for considerable improvement and improvements in techiques, in accuracy and workmanship will continue to be sought.

 

But, ultimately, this is the nature of this beast (me), whether it be the model making, the pictures which I paint and draw, or my various other interests.

 

On one thread, I read on here, someone said "I don't want to be seen as one of those irritating people who seem to do everything well (quote)". Well, quite simply, I do want to be one of those irritating folks and will vigorously pursue that objective.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

From the photos of your work to date, Mike, perhaps you've already achieved your goal; to my untrained eye, they're nigh on perfect.

 

Unfortunately, for many - myself included, we're our own harshest critics and it's difficult to accept second best. For me, whether it's that awkward backscene causing much aggravation at present, or a piece of wallpaper in the living room that's slightly overlapping an adjoinging piece, I just cannot ignore it and my eye automatically hones in on it each time I enter the room. I'd rather consign it it to the bin and try again than put up with it's inadequacies.

 

Some might describe it as obsession - my wife certainly does - other's the tortuous pursuit of perfection. Inevitably, as long as there are no ill consequences, there's absoutely nothing wrong with such quests, and I think a challenge can be both healthy and rewarding.

 

And I shouldn't worry about the irritating bit; you're far too ready and willing to share your talents with those of us who marvel at the delights of your work to be considered anything but benevolent. Harpford will certainly be all the better for it.

 

Jonte

[mikemeg]

 

Unfortunately, for many - myself included, we're our own harshest critics and it's difficult to accept second best. For me, whether it's that awkward backscene causing much aggravation at present, or a piece of wallpaper in the living room that's slightly overlapping an adjoinging piece, I just cannot ignore it and my eye automatically hones in on it each time I enter the room. I'd rather consign it it to the bin and try again than put up with it's inadequacies.

 

Some might describe it as obsession - my wife certainly does - other's the tortuous pursuit of perfection. Inevitably, as long as there are no ill consequences, there's absoutely nothing wrong with such quests, and I think a challenge can be both healthy and rewarding.

 

And I shouldn't worry about the irritating bit; you're far too ready and willing to share your talents with those of us who marvel at the delights of your work to be considered anything but benevolent. Harpford will certainly be all the better for it.

 

Jonte

 

Jonte,

 

If it's any consolation I'm also my harshest critic, though I can probably summon up others! No different to you and I get the same response from my lady partner.

 

I remember last year I drew up a new painting, this my first venture into railway paintings. The picture (and the photo used as a basis may be on this thread) involves a WD 2-8-0 on a long mineral train passing under one of those huge signal bridges. Anyway a cracking photo which would make a great painting, if I can get it right.

 

I finished the drawing up of the picture and looked at the finished drawing. 'Not bad' I thought. But the little voice on the shoulder started to be a bit more objective 'Did Austerity locomotives really have oval shaped boilers?' the little voice asked. This because I had got the ellipses wrong; and everything circular on a steam locomotive becomes some form of ellipse unless viewed exactly head on or side on.

 

Then the little voice further queried 'why were the driving wheels on Austerity 2-8-0 locomotives of differing diameters?' Quite hard to answer that one!

 

Finally, and a mere quarter hour after the little voice had begun this observational discussion, it observed 'I didn't realise that Brunel's broad guage had extended to the old NER and had lasted into railway nationalisation, even if it had been reduced from 7' 0" to around 5' 9"."

 

Clincher! The little voice was swatted into oblivion but its damage had been done. This drawing was actually cr--p and was duly binned and I've just done the drawing again. As yet the little voice has remained silent but I'm still awaiting the 'Oi, what's that' which then pressages another bout of 'objective assessment'.

 

But, where would I be without that objective, critical and very rational little voice?

 

Cheers and best regards, Jonte

 

Mike

[micknich2003]

Mike was turning out "Top Draw" models well over forty years ago. I well remember his Plasticard "Patriot" built from Railway Modeller drawings of summer 1968. By the way Mike, after all these years, I think you had better keep the tap wrench I lent you. Best Wishes, Mick.

[mikemeg]

Mike was turning out "Top Draw" models well over forty years ago. I well remember his Plasticard "Patriot" built from Railway Modeller drawings of summer 1968. By the way Mike, after all these years, I think you had better keep the tap wrench I lent you. Best Wishes, Mick.

 

Thanks Mick. I can let you have that tap wrench back when I've finished with it. Do you want the 10BA tap back too? Course I could pay you for them, the wrench was around 4s 6d then, so accounting for inflation in the last forty odd years, but discounting for the tap now being a 'second user' item (canny fellas, us Yorkshiremen), would 25p (5s 0d) cover it?

 

You don't happen to have a milling machine I could borrow, do you. I'll let you have it back just as soon as I'm done with it - around 2055 on current form; we'll both be centogenarians, and some, by then. But hey, the demographic stats now say that one in fifty (or less) of us could live to clock up the ton. I wonder if we'll still be making models by then?

 

Perhaps time for the thread to revert back to Hessle Haven so here's that black and white photo which is still so much part of the inspiration for the layout and the painting.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[the penguin of doom]

Hi Mike.

 

I hope you don't mind, but I have finally remembered to take my camera out with me whilst walking the mutt today and we had a wander around the Hessle Haven area. I have taken about ten pictures and will post some below, if nothing else, to show the complete contrast in the area between the period you model and today.

 

I suspect that in its heyday, there was a train passing every couple of minutes, but today I waited for ten minutes before the heavens opened. S**s law dictated that as soon as I walked off, a grand central liveried 5 car unit passed presumably on its way to London?.... No comparision to a B1 though.....

 

Anyway, here are the pictures.

 

 

The haven looking inwards from the Humber.

 

 

As above, you can see the overbridge, (now just a footbridge) over on the left.

 

 

The haven and the A63 road beyond.

 

 

Looking along the A63 towards Hull, (Eastbound), hopefully in about the same place as some of Mikes model shots.

 

 

I believe this to be the remains of the previous bridge and the bricks are just left on wasteland adjacent to the footbridge.

 

 

Looking along the surviving lines towards Hull. Priory inward access was to the left.

 

 

A closer shot as above. You can just make out the railway cottages beyond the trees to the left.

 

 

And as a reference, looking West towards Hessle station with the North tower of the Humber Bridge in the background.

 

I'm hoping that these are of some interest to those following your thread Mike.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[DaveF]

I've only just come across this thread, I'm very very impressed by your work Mike, I just wish I could build things half as well.

 

That bridge is just superb.

 

I made my first visit to Hessle in 1966, there are a few photos of that visit and the route from Selby toFiley at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/sets/72157626469154245/

 

Even by 1966 it looked quite a bit different to your period.

 

David

 

PS I didn't really intend the slide show, but that's what I got when I put the link in!

David

Edited September 8, 2011 by DaveF

[mikemeg]

I haven't posted anything to this topic for a few weeks, though I am now starting the third section of the railway - the section going east, towards Hull, from shipyard bridge. This section, as well as having quite a complex track layout with a curved double junction into Inward Yard and various crossovers and single slips, will also need a number of buildings - the railway cottages, Hessle Haven signal box and some semblance of Hessle's gas works and more bridges. Might even try to build a waterline model of a 1950's trawler, or perhaps a tug (ship, not Class 60) being fitted out in the Haven?

 

I fear that most, if not all, of this trackwork will have to be scratch built using C8 and C9 turnouts; I'm not sure that the budget can run to ten or twelve point, diamond crossing and single slip kits. So, if anyone's interested then I'll chronicle this track build on the thread, as it proceeds.

 

Many thanks to Sean and to DaveF for adding the photosets to the thread. Sean's pictures certainly illustrate the enormous changes to this place since the early 1960's, which was when most of the black and white photos on the thread were taken. And DaveF's photos, especially the earlier ones, still show Hessle Haven almost as we knew it. You know I never thought I'd say this but those green diesels on rakes of maroon Mk 1's and on the freight wagons of the time now have almost as much nostalgia in them as the earlier photos of steam through this place.

 

So by way of introduction to this next section, here's one of those much treasured black and white photos of what the next section will (hopefully) look like. And it just wouldn't be complete without the ubiquitous Austerity on an unfitted freight. Interesting thing about this location is that the four track main line went from a 10',6',10' spacing, just before the overbridge, to a 6',6',6' spacing in the foreground. Apparently, the up slow (leftmost track on the photo) was an up independent up to the crossover, hence the trap point.

 

This is exactly the same place as is shown in Sean's photo's, in the posting above; now barely recognisable to most, save those of us who, once upon a time, knew it.

 

Thanks and regards

 

Mike

Edited October 12, 2011 by mikemeg

[Mod6]

 

Now can anyone tell me how I can move this topic from its current location (layout topics) into the 'modelling real locations' topic list?

 

 

Done, Mike - it's an admin function, not something that members can do. I happened to see this, otherwise best way to attract our attention is via the report button.

[mikemeg]

 

Done, Mike - it's an admin function, not something that members can do. I happened to see this, otherwise best way to attract our attention is via the report button.

 

Many thanks Mod6. I thought it might be an admin function, but wasn't sure.

 

Cheers and, again, many thanks.

 

Mike

[craigwelsh]

I fear that most, if not all, of this trackwork will have to be scratch built using C8 and C9 turnouts; I'm not sure that the budget can run to ten or twelve point, diamond crossing and single slip kits. So, if anyone's interested then I'll chronicle this track build on the thread, as it proceeds.

 

Mike

I'd certainly like to see your updates on track, always good to get other methods to learn from. Btw though you used kits previously I assume you'd replaced the sleepers anyway with your own stained wood ones?

[mikemeg]

I'd certainly like to see your updates on track, always good to get other methods to learn from. Btw though you used kits previously I assume you'd replaced the sleepers anyway with your own stained wood ones?

 

Craig,

 

Yes, as you surmise, all of the pointwork so far built has used my own stained wood (obechi) sleepers. I build them on paper templates which are stuck to the trackbed. I'll cover the techniques and approaches as I build the next section. The key thing, for me, about this approach is allowing all ballasting, and ballast painting, to be done before any rails are laid - makes the ballasting operation very much easier.

 

The first job I will have to do is to build jigs for the filing and shaping of the switch rails ('C' switches) and for the various crossing noses (1 in 8 and 1 in 9). One thing which will significantly aid the process is the availability of the sets of special chairs for turnouts, diamonds and slips which can now be bought separately from The P4 Track Co. Templates for the various track formations needed can also be purchased from the same Company.

 

Earlier in this thread is a photo showing an ex-NER interlaced, or sleepered turnout, which I built from scratch, largely as an experiment to determine how to do this and what jigs I would need to make to 'mass produce' the various turnouts, diamond crossings and slips on this third section of the railway.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited October 17, 2011 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

For those whose interest is green diesels, then here's another of those much treasured black and white photos, this one taken in 1963 - perhaps the same wet spring or early summer's day (there is blossom on the bush by the house next the gasworks) as the photo of the B16/3 at the start of this thread - and showing an EE Type 3 (they weren't yet Class 37's) on an up fish train.

 

It is these photos which have proved so useful in establishing just how this place looked. One thing, apparent from this photo, is the staggering of the two turnouts which formed the facing junction into New Inward Yard - the two turnouts on the bottom left of the picture. I can only think that this staggering was to compensate for the spacing of the two down roads, which was 10', in order to produce a spacing nearer 6' to the left of the junction on the entry roads into Inward Yard.

 

Also interesting just how much clutter is laid around on the permanent way.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited October 26, 2011 by mikemeg