Lenz 23151 USB/LAN interface - questions

[WIMorrison]

​Keith

 

​A better solution - that would not have helped in your position though - when you need more than fluidity across a subnet is to use a Class B private address range which goes from 172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255 and subnet of 255.240.0.0 giving you just over 1 million hosts, or even freer rein is use a Class A private address range which is 10.0.0.0 with a subnet mask of 255.0.0.0 giving you millions of hosts - this is the range normally used corporately.  For completeness Class C is 192.168.0.0 through to 192.168.255.255 with a mask of 255.255.0.0 giving 65k addresses.

 

​It is very important that only these address ranges are used because they are 'unroutable' over the internet and they cannot 'escape' the edge into the public domain - this is important to ensure that we can have addresses to identify kit at home (and in the office) but still leave addresses for IP traffic (we have actually ran out, hence a new system called IPv6 which is now being used)

 

​It is a very complex subject, suffice to say that there are very good reasons why the 192.168.x.x is used for consumer equipment and most manufacturers are clever and either use DHCP (preferred solution) although some use 'smart ip' static addresses (which are similar to DHCP - ish).

 

Unfortunately I think that some people and companies try to make things difficult by using static addresses Lenz, Roco and Digikeijs being good examples in our world and none of them providing decent instructions to help the consumer who then have to fall back on what they find online, and that isn't always the best of advice - I cannot count the number of home networks I have had to rescue due to very poor advice having been given down the pub by the local 'expert'

 

but yiu are sorted and hopefully a few have learned a bit to help themselves along the way  

[melmerby]

Hi again

 

I have a question about the way I have the items connected. (see my previous post #18 with the schematic.)

 

Why is it that if the LAN connection from the incoming router (Plusnet) is off none of the items connected to the LAN hub (Edimax) in the railway room will work?

I normally have it on so I get internet connection in the railway room but if it is switched off nothing else works!

 

Cheers

 

Keith

Edited May 19, 2018 by melmerby

[WIMorrison]

You need the home router switched on because it does the routing (clue is in the name) - it receives all the network traffic and decides whether to pass it through to the internet or send it back internally to the correct device (in simplistic terms )

[melmerby]

You need the home router switched on because it does the routing (clue is in the name) - it receives all the network traffic and decides whether to pass it through to the internet or send it back internally to the correct device (in simplistic terms )

Does that mean if you haven't got an incoming router you can't distribute LAN around your devices with the extra hub at all?

 

Keith

 

EDIT this is what is in the railway room:

https://www.edimax.com/edimax/merchandise/merchandise_detail/data/edimax/global/wireless_routers_n150/br-6228ns_v2/

Edited May 19, 2018 by melmerby

[WIMorrison]

Nope, just that will go back to your defaul gateway - in this case your address incoming router - to find out how to get around

 

You can make isolated LANs at home but I seriously advice you against it

[melmerby]

Nope, just that will go back to your defaul gateway - in this case your address incoming router - to find out how to get around

 

You can make isolated LANs at home but I seriously advice you against it

I'll stick with how itis then!

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[WIMorrison]

Good decision

[melmerby]

Back on this topic again!

 

As some of you may have seen on other topics my railway room got flooded in May

The PC I used was damaged by the flood water so I have got another one. None of the DCC kit was affected as it was well out of the way.

 

I am currently trying to reconnect the layout to the new PC but have come up with a problem trying to get the 23151 LAN interface to work

 

If I do a ping it does not show up anymore. It should IIRC be 192.168.1.120 (reset from it's original address) but it doesn't respond when I try that. The USB side is fine.

My DR5000 which is on the same router does show up as 192.168.1.132.

 

 

Any suggestions to where/what I should start checking?

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[WIMorrison]

I would start by using an an IP scanning tool - advanced up scanner is a free version - which you use to scan the subnet you are using and it will show what the IP address is for the 23151

[Bucoops]

https://www.advanced-ip-scanner.com/

[WIMorrison]

The MAC addresses you show translate to these manufacturers, which may make sense to you The Technicolor MAC is your home router and I think that these are issued by PlusNet? 

 

• ac:a2:13:b7:fd:9d - Shenzen Bilian Electronic
• 74:da:38:99:b5:98 - Edimax Technology Ltd
• 9c:97:26:94:df:40 - technicolor 

IIRC the 23151 defaults to a 192.168.0.x subnet which means you need to change the address within in to your subnet which is 192.168.1.x

 

I also think that there is a way of addressing the 23151 via HTTP using http://expressnet which might allow you to reconfigure to the correct subnet,. failing that you will need to create a PC on the correct subnet (give it an address of 192.168.0.10) to access the 23151 and configure it correctly.

 

My first port of call would be Advanced IP Scanner as I suggest originally though.

[melmerby]

The MAC addresses you show translate to these manufacturers, which may make sense to you The Technicolor MAC is your home router and I think that these are issued by PlusNet? 

 

• ac:a2:13:b7:fd:9d - Shenzen Bilian Electronic
• 74:da:38:99:b5:98 - Edimax Technology Ltd
• 9c:97:26:94:df:40 - technicolor 

IIRC the 23151 defaults to a 192.168.0.x subnet which means you need to change the address within in to your subnet which is 192.168.1.x

 

I also think that there is a way of addressing the 23151 via HTTP using http://expressnet which might allow you to reconfigure to the correct subnet,. failing that you will need to create a PC on the correct subnet (give it an address of 192.168.0.10) to access the 23151 and configure it correctly.

 

My first port of call would be Advanced IP Scanner as I suggest originally though.

Thanks for the tip. I'll try the IP scanner and see what it reveals.

 

The Shenzen Bilian device is the Digikeijs DR5000, The Edimax is the router connected straight to the railway room PC.

As you point out the Technicolor device is the Plusnet router (connected to the fibre modem).

 

The 23151 shouldn't have reverted to it's default address as all I did was disconnect the old PC from the Edimax router and connect the new PC back to it.

In between there had been 8 weeks of inactivity with the devices left connected as they were.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[melmerby]

A quick update

The address was 192.168.1.20

IP Scanner found it straight away.

Once the correct value was entered into the program all worked fine.

 

Why doesn't it show when I ping 192.168.1.255?

 

Thanks for the help.

Cheers

 

Keith

[RFS]

A quick update

The address was 192.168.1.20

IP Scanner found it straight away.

Once the correct value was entered into the program all worked fine.

 

Why doesn't it show when I ping 192.168.1.255?

 

Thanks for the help.

Cheers

 

Keith

 

Look closely at your ping output on post #33.  It says 20 there ….

Edited August 5, 2018 by RFS

[melmerby]

Look closely at your ping output on post #33.  It says 20 there ….

Yes, so it does...

 

Why is it not there when I do "arp -a" ?

I expected to be listed with the other devices.

 

 

Another question! (or two)

The new PC has two LAN ports.

If I connect the incoming Ethernet cable from the Plusnet router to one of them that will give me Internet connectivity. (Correct?)

If I connect the other LAN port to the local (Railway Room) router that should allow the DCC kit to be controlled from the PC. (Correct?)

 

Would that mean the railway kit would be independent of the Plusnet router and would not need it connected to operate?

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[WIMorrison]

Pinging the x.x.x.255 address isn't a reliable way fo seeing anything, not everything will respond to a broadcast message plus it won't traverse all switches or routers - it is not a tool that I have ever relied upon, or anyone else that I know of has even used in anger.

 

An example on my own network;

• first run "arp -d * " from an admin command prompt (clears out old arp cache)
• then run "ping 192.168.1.255"
• then "arp -a2
• compare to known list of IPs

I get 3 addresses shown, whereas I know that there are 21 devices - IP scanner shows all 21

 

Iain

[melmerby]

Hi Iain

 

I have another net query from post #40

How do I connect everything now the new PC has 2 LAN sockets?

I can connect the incoming line from the broadband router to the first and it works fine.

If I connect the local router the other what do I need to do to get that to work?

I tried plugging it straight into the second LAN socket and it doesn't show.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[WIMorrison]

I am not sure what you are trying to do as when you use 2 NICs in the same PC you will need to bridge across them if you want to route between them, plus having 2 NICs in the same machine on the same subnet is a route (pun intended) to a lot of problems (you need to team the NICs)

 

If what you are trying to do is get connectivity from the 23151 to the PC and connectivity from the PC to the Internet router and they are both on the same subnet 192.168.1.x then it would be easier to either plug the 23151 and the PC into the router or place a small hub/switch between the router and PC and feed the 23151 from that hub.

 

The only other way is to create another subnet for the 23151 e.g. 192.168.0.x and assign a fixed address to the second NIC and connect the 23151 directly to that NIC and the router to the other NIC using DHCP

 

Sorry if this is confusing - a diagram will show what I mean but I can’t draw one on my phone

Edited August 14, 2018 by WIMorrison

[melmerby]

There are two LAN Connections (with different drivers) on the PC

I would like to use the Edimax local router with the Lenz 23151 and the DR5000 both connected on one of the the PCs LAN sockets with the incoming LAN from the Plusnet broadband router operating as a seperate device on the other.

 

Is that possible? I'm not interested with any bridge between the two.

 

Cheers Keith

 

EDIT

Like this:

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by melmerby

[WIMorrison]

Not an issue - what you need to do is create a new subnet on the Edimax - 192.168.0.1-255 with subnet 255.255.255.0 and enable DHCP. Then set the 23151 to the default which I think is 192.168.0.62? Both NICs on the PC need to be set to DHCP and they will get their addresses from the DHCP pool and the PC should manage the routing.

[WIMorrison]

Keith

 

Found this web page which explains the theory better than I have scribbled - though you may understand what I was saying

 

http://www.ni.com/white-paper/12558/en/

 

The key is that both NICs must be on different networks - if they are on the same network range it will all fall over

 

Ping me if you need

 

Iain

[PaulCheffus]

Not an issue - what you need to do is create a new subnet on the Edimax - 192.168.0.1-255 with subnet 255.255.255.0 and enable DHCP. Then set the 23151 to the default which I think is 192.168.0.62? Both NICs on the PC need to be set to DHCP and they will get their addresses from the DHCP pool and the PC should manage the routing.

 

Hi

 

Default is 192.168.0.200

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[melmerby]

Hi

 

Default is 192.168.0.200

 

Cheers

 

Paul

IIRC it will default to that if you hold reset down on power up.

 

Keith

Edited August 14, 2018 by melmerby