MRJ 266

[Regularity]

My wife and I once saw one of those old Fiat 500s from the 1960s (?) parked up in Victoria Park, Bath. It was painted in blue and white 'panda car' colours, with a large key in the boot and the legend 'Lilliput Police Department' on each door.

Weren’t Lilliput models to some strange scale of 3.8mm to the foot. Or was that Trix?

[Charles]

Hello, Gents and Ladies. 

 

Loved the Beano cartoon above.

 

My last MRJ is No. 264, but I can rely upon my Newsagent to regularly supply, and I've noticed the regular purchase of the two other copies my Newsagent

orders since my order was placed with him about 3 yrs ago.

 

Perhaps an MRJ thread is not the best place to say this, but I do believe the model railway press has a very important part to play in the education

of our youth.   

 

All of the magazines, printed or otherwise, should bear this in mind at all times.   We/They are attempting to provide an example, and it behoves us to do so in a

fashion which illustrates proper use of our language.

 

I am happy to attribute my use of language, particularly as written, to Mr. Cyril Freezer, editor of Railway Modeller.

 

It was from Cyril; who I had the pleasure of meeting at Model Rail Scotland in 1971, I learned enough, through his Editorials, and the magazine generally, to pursue a

career whereby what I would write is what I lived by (mostly legal briefs for maritime stuffs up).

 

I know we are living in a far different world today, and I acknowledge again an MRJ column is probably not the most appropriate place to raise such a general

concern, but the fact of it being an MRJ column seems to say that it may well be.

 

I need to say I learned, certainly accompanied by some very excellent teaching, particularly in Primary School, how to write about anything which might concern me, from

the model railway press; Railway Modeller in particular.

 

We don't all come from 'reading' families.

 

Best regards,

Charles

[Covkid]

Weren’t Lilliput models to some strange scale of 3.8mm to the foot. Or was that Trix?

 

Can't really be sure but I think it was Lilliput.  ISTR visiting Ernst Rocza's Aladdins cave at Bala and seeing some UK outline Lilliput trinkets there, and I am pretty sure they were about 3.8mm scale as you say. Trans Pennine DMUs etc.   

[John_Hughes]

Can't really be sure but I think it was Lilliput.  ISTR visiting Ernst Rocza's Aladdins cave at Bala and seeing some UK outline Lilliput trinkets there, and I am pretty sure they were about 3.8mm scale as you say. Trans Pennine DMUs etc.   

 

British Trix, I think; or was that Lilliput by another name?

[melmoth]

My wife and I once saw one of those old Fiat 500s from the 1960s (?) parked up in Victoria Park, Bath. It was painted in blue and white 'panda car' colours, with a large key in the boot and the legend 'Lilliput Police Department' on each door.

 

One of our local tree surgery/woodland management companies has a branded Smart car. I've always assumed it's for the bonsai division.

[MartinWales]

Delighted to find it at my local Smiths yesterday, and we'll worth the wait!

[Regularity]

08 377 with strap hinges?

 

I’d like to see a picture of the prototype before I accept that!

 

(That’s not a finescale issue, just the basics.)

[Steamport Southport]

08 377 with strap hinges?

 

I’d like to see a picture of the prototype before I accept that!

 

(That’s not a finescale issue, just the basics.)

 

Like this?

 

https://www.watercressline.co.uk/article.php/591/08377-class-08-shunter

 

 

 

Jason

[queensquare]

Dear Mr Simon Regularity. if you read the editorial, which judging by your first post in this thread you haven't, you would realise that one of the first points made is that the term 'finescale' is almost impossible to define and that the 'finescale police' are completely hypothetical, they don't really exist (is that a tautology or is it just emphasis, I'll leave that for others to discuss)! . That said, your subsequent posts both here and elsewhere on the forum suggest that if the finescale police were a reality you would most definitely be officer material.

 

Jerry

[Regularity]

Like this?

https://www.watercressline.co.uk/article.php/591/08377-class-08-shunter

 

Wow. Thanks for that.

Thanks: everything I have read (including the MRJ article on the MOK 08) suggested the changeover was in the mid 200s, so that’s a fascinating change.

Dear Mr Simon Regularity. if you read the editorial, which judging by your first post in this thread you haven't, you would realise that one of the first points made is that the term 'finescale' is almost impossible to define and that the 'finescale police' are completely hypothetical, they don't really exist (is that a tautology or is it just emphasis, I'll leave that for others to discuss)! . That said, your subsequent posts both here and elsewhere on the forum suggest that if the finescale police were a reality you would most definitely be officer material.

Actually, I have read your editorial.

I simply found the opening paragraph fatuous. I refrained from saying so, but since you want to throw insults about, then if the cap fits...

No, I read that as you think there are finescale police, which is confirmed as you say I would be officer material. Well, I suppose anyone who has been asked to judge entries at a competition would fit that criterion, so I have to put my hands up to that. Have you ever been asked to judge a competition or entered one, or do you merely demonstrate that such things are, say, elitist?

 

But when it comes to misreading posts, you have consistently done so with mine. If you look at this thread (and elsewhere) you can see that I have not only come up with a definition of what finescale is to me, but that it is entirely relative to the individual.

I’ll repeat it with a rephrase and follow either an example:

Finescale is about setting standards for accuracy in getting models closer to the prototype. Those standards can be level of detail, dimensional accuracy, track and wheel standards or historical authenticity. The point is to set a target, and a tolerance about it, and then get on with it.

The only measure of “finescale-ness” for an individual is how they measure up to their standards.

Failure to do this will lead eventually to a hodgepodge of mismatched models - which may not be an issue, of course, in which case, I suggest that the modeller isn’t working to a finescale ethos.

 

This is no more than Peter Denny did very early on in his modelling “career”. Measured against the standards he set, Buckingham was 100% successful, for all that the track gauge is 18.2mm, and the wheels and flangeways are essentially the old BRMSB standards for 00. Nothing wrong with that, and the good reverend also explored other issues about authenticity such as scribing the horizontal mortar courses on his printed brick paper.

 

So, on that measure, you talk about not modelling details which can’t be seen on the layout, you work to 2mm SA track and wheel standards, and your layouts look historically authentic to me: you certainly give the impression of getting things right within a certain window of time, maybe acknowledging the odd exception?

 

That (in my mind) means you are a finescale modeller, and a very successful one to boot.

 

Why that creates a problem for you is beyond my understanding, but the way to deal with these labels, as Tyrion Lannister pointed out in Game of Thrones, is to “own” it so that it can’t be used against you, which is why I wondered about your opening paragraph.

 

Me? Finescale and proud of it.

Anyone else? Well, it depends oh whether getting things right is an issue for them or not, and whether they measure up to their own standards.

 

Edit: My first post in this thread referred to publication deadlines. Not sure what that has to do with this.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Regularity

[Captain Kernow]

That said, your subsequent posts both here and elsewhere on the forum suggest that if the finescale police were a reality you would most definitely be officer material.

 

As I was reading your sentence (above), Jerry, I really thought you were going to say that if the Finescale Police were a reality, then they'd be chasing after Simon! (sorry, Simon!).

 

Anyway, who knows whether the Finescale Police exist? Perhaps they do, perhaps they don't. Some folk may consider them simply a legend, the stuff of Old Modellers Tales, the sort of bogey man that mothers will use just before bed time, to scare their off-spring into using a bit more care with that Airfix mineral wagon kit.

 

Or they could be like the Loch Ness Monster, their existence held to be rather improbable, except after a night down the pub.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Captain Kernow

[dibber25]

Can't really be sure but I think it was Lilliput.  ISTR visiting Ernst Rocza's Aladdins cave at Bala and seeing some UK outline Lilliput trinkets there, and I am pretty sure they were about 3.8mm scale as you say. Trans Pennine DMUs etc.   

 

Lilliput was European outline, Trix Twin was British-outline from the same stable. It was the British output that was latterly to 3.8mm:1ft c.1965. (CJL)

[Captain Kernow]

Lilliput was European outline, Trix Twin was British-outline from the same stable. It was the British output that was latterly to 3.8mm:1ft c.1965. (CJL)

So was the later Fleischmann Warship etc. to actual HO (3.5mm) scale, then, or did it match the earlier Trix etc.?

[Siberian Snooper]

Looks too be a cracking read, having just had quick flick through it.

[davknigh]

Quietly hoping mine doesn’t get lost due to threatened rotating strikes by Canada Post.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[leopardml2341]

Me? Finescale and proud of it.

Anyone else? Well, it depends oh whether getting things right is an issue for them or not, and whether they measure up to their own standards.

 

Methinks there's a proof reading failure there. Surely the only explanation is a typographical error?

 

'.....it depends ON(?)......'

 

Isn't irony a wonderful thing?

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by leopardml2341

[Tricky]

Oh dear.

[Barry Ten]

So was the later Fleischmann Warship etc. to actual HO (3.5mm) scale, then, or did it match the earlier Trix etc.?

 

There was also the Rivarossi Royal Scot which I think was 3.8mm scale if I'm remembering the reviews.

[dibber25]

So was the later Fleischmann Warship etc. to actual HO (3.5mm) scale, then, or did it match the earlier Trix etc.?

 

The Fleischmann Warship and Bulleid coaches were to 'HO' scale 3.5mm:1ft. It was thought, at the time of the 'Western', that Trix would move gradually to 4mm:1ft. The Western and Met-Camm Pullmans were to 3.8mm but I believe the 'A4' that ended up with Bachmann was to straight 4mm:1ft. It's all a long time ago and difficult to remember. By coincidence I have out the original picture of the Trix Western as used on the cover of December 1965 Model Railway Constructor. This was devised by Colin Gifford and built by me, and I've just done a new colour version of it for Model Rail, next issue. I had intended to use the Dapol 'Western' but then bought a very well detailed Heljan model secondhand from Trains4U after it was advertised on RMweb. I don't know who the modeller was but he did a cracking job of reshaping the roof and fitting details which saved me a lot of work! (CJL)

Edited October 18, 2018 by dibber25

[NHY 581]

Wow. Thanks for that.

Thanks: everything I have read (including the MRJ article on the MOK 08) suggested the changeover was in the mid 200s, so that’s a fascinating change.Actually, I have read your editorial.

I simply found the opening paragraph fatuous. I refrained from saying so, but since you want to throw insults about, then if the cap fits...

 

 

Sorry Simon but I fail to see what is fatuous about the opening paragraph of Jerry's editorial. He makes observations pertinent to the subject and appropriate in the circumstances. My understanding of it is that it is down to the invidual to expand upon the basic components to attain finescale standards, be it eother kits or rtr as the starting point. It makes perfect sense in that ( thankfully) no two of us are the same, therefore the variables are infinate.

 

His editorial continues and sets out his own areas of compromise, which is enlightening given his abilities as one who produces models to a very high standard indeed.

 

I would venture that you missed the point of Jerry's editorial and focused on the finescale content as opposed to the element of compromise....

 

 

 

Rob.

[Metropolitan H]

Having purchased a copy today and started reading, I turn the page and find the following legend at the bottom of page 242 - "Items for publication should be e-mailed to mrjsmallsuppliers@googlemail.com "!!

 

Has the earth's axis slipped? - I know this is not a general invitation to use electronic messaging, but!!

 

Actually this is a good issue - as normal - and Jerry's "The art of compromise..." piece is quite sensible. I have for some time concluded that concentrating on the overall "look" of the proportions, face and profile of a model is more important than getting every detail correct to such a degree that modelling becomes a chore. 

 

Regards

Chris H

[Captain Kernow]

Anyway, who knows whether the Finescale Police exist?

I've decided the best way to establish whether the Finescale Police really do exist or not, is to investigate where my local Finescale Police Station is and watch out for Finescale Police cars on the local roads.

 

Cracking issue again, by the way, wish I'd spent more time watching Navigation Road last time I saw it!

Edited October 19, 2018 by Captain Kernow

[NHY 581]

I've decided the best way to establish whether the Finescale Police really do exist or not, is to investigate where my local Finescale Police Station is and watch out for Finescale Police cars on the local roads.

 

Cracking issue again, by the way, wish I'd spent more time watching Navigation Road last time I saw it!

The most feared branch of the Finescale Police is the Finescale Squad. Nicknamed the Sweeney after Sweeny Todd, cockney rhyming slang for Finescale Squad, they will act on information and descend on a layout, without warning.

 

Easily identifiable in their kipper ties and flared trousers, they can often be heard uttering various phrases such as;

 

" Oi you Sl@g! We're the Finescale Sweeney and we ain't 'ad our dinner!"

 

"Oi, Guv. Them rails look a bit narrar"

 

"Cop a load ov them flanges.......they're massive!"

 

"Shunt it you Sl@g!!!"

 

Rob.

Edited October 19, 2018 by NHY 581

[davknigh]

Finescale Squad is nothing compared to the Finescale Inquisition, because “nobody expects the Finescale Inquisition, Bwahaha!”

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Regularity]

Jerry,

 

I have re-read your editorial, twice in fact, and feel I have misunderstood what you were saying, at least on my first reading. In fact we are in agreement, the difference being that you use the word “compromise” whereas I prefer to think in terms of setting a standard for how far one is prepared to go. Compromise has negative connotations and has been defined as a way of leaving everyone feeling unsatisfied. Maybe that along with your apparent misreading of my posts led to my ad hominem response to you?

 

Whatever, a model railway forum is no place for personal remarks, and I apologise for them.

 

No doubt there has been a degree of open season on me, either in this three or via PMs to you. Whatever: I poked my head above the parapet and, to mix metaphors, made an ar5e of mys3lf. I deserved any brickbats, but I am not going to go over the tread and read them.

 

As for t08, I was either misinformed or forgetful. In either case, I asked for evidence, it was shown, and I accepted it. There might be a degree of schadenfreude evident in some people’s minds: that’s up to them, but really, get a life.

 

Other than to say I found this a readable issue, and that your article on 2mm wagon building is fascinating - and also illustrates how production techniques vary by the scale of the model - I will say no more about MRJ.