Peterborough North

[Andy Y]

Now let's start with the grade of sand and the depth/volume required at this location!

 

Rough, deep and lots is the answer I think according to this extract from an image in a pdf e-mag coming to you soon.

 

[Mallard60022]

That's great Andy; looks more like ballast drag.

Looks like there were several drags at Peterboro' then? Also, just look at the wealth of detail info in this pic; amazing. Just shows how much you really have to do to recreate an actual location.

P @ 36E

[great northern]

No golf today, but I have been out making purchases. Following Andy's suggestion I bought some card, and I have put up one piece in the easiest place to reach. I can't get an exact colour match for my duck egg blue walls, but that doesn't matter much as they can look entirely different depending on the amount of light coming in. I'm more concerned that there is still the problem that the bottom of the bookcases and their support brackets can still be seen if I want to use my favourite rail height shots. What do you think? Is it worth carrying on with this? I'd rather know before I start trying to access much more difficult places. I don't think I will ever get an exact colour match between the card and the walls either. It will be less obtrusive, but is it good enough?

 

[great northern]

That's great Andy; looks more like ballast drag.

Looks like there were several drags at Peterboro' then? Also, just look at the wealth of detail info in this pic; amazing. Just shows how much you really have to do to recreate an actual location.

P @ 36E

 

There were three sand drags Phil. Two ballast drags at the South end, as shown on Andy's photo, and one of an entirely different type at the North end of the Down slow. There isn't much light today, so that end is in deep shadow and I'll have to use a tripod to get any kind of decent image. Here's a South end shot just to show that those two drags are in place. I'll try another with some zoom to get closer to the real image.

 

 

I did have a few colour photos, which enabled Norman Saunders to get the subtle differences in the colouration of the ballast in different parts of the station. As you say, lots of detail in that photo, including yet another fogman's hut at bottom right. It has also helped make up my mind on another subject I've been pondering. The bridge marks the end of the"real" part of the layout, so I wasn't going to include anything on the other side. Looking at my photos though I have been concerned that everything does look very bare. I think therefore that in due course Peter Leyland will get a further commission to build Crecent Junction signal box, and the old Midland Railway station building next to it. Retirement may have to be delayed a little longer......

[coachmann]

Don't like the real detail beyond that bow bridge in Andy's picture. Prefer mountains!

Re. the blue card, it would need to be positioned behind the signals according the where you are photographing from.

[jonny777]

No golf today, but I have been out making purchases. Following Andy's suggestion I bought some card, and I have put up one piece in the easiest place to reach. I can't get an exact colour match for my duck egg blue walls, but that doesn't matter much as they can look entirely different depending on the amount of light coming in. I'm more concerned that there is still the problem that the bottom of the bookcases and their support brackets can still be seen if I want to use my favourite rail height shots. What do you think? Is it worth carrying on with this? I'd rather know before I start trying to access much more difficult places. I don't think I will ever get an exact colour match between the card and the walls either. It will be less obtrusive, but is it good enough?

 

 

I think that the card certainly does a reasonable job, and presumably you will take the background into consideration when lining up your future photographs. I dont think the brackets and bottom shelf will stand out too much if you have enough card to cover the books behind the shot.

 

I wouldn't worry about the colour match. I think we appreciate the photos enough to turn a blind eye to minor distractions such as that.

 

So, yes, I do think the blue card option is worth pursuing.

[great northern]

With many contortions, and much cursing -words like "drat" and " bother" rebounding off the walls I have put up one more piece of card. I can assure you that it would be impossible to put another piece above the one in the corner, so this is as far as I can go. This is what we get after a bit of cropping.

 

 

My view is that that is a lot better than nothing at all.

 

 

Here is a heavily cropped longer range shot. Again I think the improvement is worth the effort ( and the back pain). Whaddaya mean you want to see some trains? Oh all right then, Here is Kings Cross A3 Minoru at platform 6 with the 1040 KX - Grantham.

 

[great northern]

I think that the card certainly does a reasonable job, and presumably you will take the background into consideration when lining up your future photographs. I dont think the brackets and bottom shelf will stand out too much if you have enough card to cover the books behind the shot.

 

I wouldn't worry about the colour match. I think we appreciate the photos enough to turn a blind eye to minor distractions such as that.

 

So, yes, I do think the blue card option is worth pursuing.

 

Thanks very much. That is very helpful indeed.

[Andy Y]

Again I think the improvement is worth the effort ( and the back pain).

 

I agree Gilbert (not necessarily the back pain part). It'll make the views a little less distracted and make life easier when it comes to 'tidying' any images. Maybe a couple of inches lower to disguise the underside of the bottom shelf when you're next looking for a Clive Cussler book?

 

You could re-arrange all your books so the white and blue ones are on the bottom shelf.

[micklner]

Much better, how about painting the bottom of shelves /brackets if you can get to them the same Blue as the walls. No idea if the card would react to emulsion paint ?

 

Behind the bridge you could paint a background much cheaper than buildings, from a distance it doesnt have to be too exact.

Edited February 29, 2012 by micklner

[great northern]

Much better, how about painting the bottom of shelves /brackets if you can get to them the same Blue as the walls. No idea if the card would react to emulsion paint ?

 

Behind the bridge you could paint a background much cheaper than buildings, from a distance it doesnt have to be too exact.

 

Thanks Mick, I'd just started thinking along the same lines about painting the bottom of the shelves. Having said that, Andy's suggestion would make that unnecessary. I had also wondered whether it would be possible to put a sky background on that back wall? I assume not, but would be delighted if anyone tells me it can be done, and how. I like the way you are trying to save me money too! That would allow for a few more Thompson pacifics.

[Andy Y]

I had also wondered whether it would be possible to put a sky background on that back wall?

 

Of course it is, we'll be round with a few tins of Dulux a bit later. If I were you I wouldn't let us in though and I'd and make do with some http://www.internati...Backscenes.html as make-do 'muriels' without mountains.

[great northern]

The final piece of card for that wall is now in place, and it even works out that three full sheets gives the perfect length. I was very pleased with it, until Andy pointed out that there is a very easy way to hide the bottom of the shelves. That will have to be done - just when i'd got them all fairly well aligned too.

 

 

The next run along the other side nearest the door is a bit more problematic, not in actually fitting the card, but because those bottom shelves contain books that I need to refer to regularly. I can still get at them by removing the card when necessary, but I'm inclined to go with the suggestion of having flat fronted doors along there.

 

Finally, here is the first result of yet another idea. I must have exceeded my quota for the year by now. OK, the card needs to be on a nice firm backing sheet, and the whole concept has to be thought through properly, but it has potential. Doesn't solve the back lighting problem though.

 

[micklner]

Looks good, dont think I would climb that signal ladder !!!!

[Mallard60022]

Seeing those lovely signal bracket has given me an idea for the 'backcloth' (Cyc in theatre parlance).

Hows about a gibbet sort of frame which you can swing/ roll and position across the layout in place in front of the shelves or wherever. From this you have 'hanged' (theatre drop cloth style?) a suitable material, maybe even the card but that wouldn't 'sit very well on the track (does that matter).

Does not have to be complex, just a base, upright/cross piece (hence the gibbet description as in the politically incorrect game 'Hangman) and 'corner support', not unlike the signal brackets. Sounds a bit of a faff, however it would be more versatile than just carding the shelves and you could use the wood for other purposes at some future time.

 

Re the 'old bags' debate.

These are paper straws that I found at my workplace (Surestart) this afternoon. Not made for drinking but some sort of arty work; (not 'waxed').

The blue (left side) one is about 8mm diameter and just under 60mm in this pic. The other is about 5mm dia and a bit longer!! They maybe are cut from longer originals but I don't know that yet. I'll ask staff tomorrow if I remember.

Just think that they have the right 'feel' and would be fine for 'vertical dangles' and a possibility for other configurations.

 

P @ 36E

Edited February 29, 2012 by Mallard60022

[Mighty]

Gilbert, the card on the bookcases looks great - a definite improvement and leads the eye into the most important part of the photograph - namely the fantastic layout!

 

Regarding the bottom of the bookshelves and the brackets, the only thing I could think of that might work is a roll of stiff paper in the colour you need pinned to the bottom of the bookcases and then to the wall a foot below. That would also prevent the darker shadows which I think are the only thing that's really distracting the eye now. A quick mock up shouldn't take too long to try out on just one section.

 

Andy's method would work of course, but this way might be a bit easier on the wallet!

 

All the best,

 

Chris

[JeffP]

Following this with interest, I am minded to warn Gilbert: if you make the shelves invisible to the CAMERA, they also become invisible to THE EYE!

 

I did this with a sheet over an "N" gauge layout.

I then forgot where the end of the shelf was, and, bending forwards, clouted myself beneath my right eye on the hidden end.

 

The result was a nasty cut and a black eye, ........which my year-tens thought my wife had done!

 

We don't want Gilbert doing the same, the blood would RUIN that trackwork!!!

 

Only joking Gilbert, but DO take care.

[Mallard60022]

Y10s Jeff ...... oh dear, locally (36E) such charming beasts No wonder you need to model after dealing with that lot (and yes I know that Y7s & 8s are very much worse but they are usually small enough to ignore )

Having said that, are any of them interested in railways?

Back to business; where's the main man today as I'm missing my loco/coach fix?

I've been looking at the sand/ballast drag pics in my little book (also the nearest one shown in Andy's pic) and this is truly replicated on the layout - brilliant. The north end one at the end of the down loop line (Plat 4?) is a different design as GN pointed out earlier; do we have a pic of the layout version of that Gilbert?

P @ 36E

Edited March 2, 2012 by Mallard60022

[HerbertHopkins]

I've been watching the debate re hiding the bookshelves with interest then, while looking at some of Gilbert's recent pictures, particularly those of Ladas and Gannet, I had an idea. Why not get young Wilson over to explain the delights of photoshop to you? IIRC it was he who actually showed TW how it worked, so learning it can't be that difficult!

[great northern]

Today will again be spent mostly chasing errant golf balls, but just time to post one shot - Up Yorkshire Pullman behind Aboyeur of Copley Hill.

 

[great northern]

That went smoothly, so here also, just for Phil, is the North end sand drag. Totally different way of doing it - I wonder why? Apologies for out of position bridge and intruding off scene modelling materials.

 

[Mallard60022]

Nice bit of real drag there GN!

Ta very much.

Gresley TO in the workshop.

P @ 36E

[The Stationmaster]

That went smoothly, so here also, just for Phil, is the North end sand drag. Totally different way of doing it - I wonder why? Apologies for out of position bridge and intruding off scene modelling materials.

The difference is that the one in your pic shows the proper way of doing it. I suspect that if anything ran into the one at the south end shown in the pic which Andy posted it would have as likely run straight over it as have been stopped. For sand drags to work properly they need finer material which will retard the wheels by, in effect, clogging them. With larger mixed material there is a tendency for it to weather harden and for wheels to run over the top of it with far less retarding effect than sand. Just look at the pics of the electric loco recently derailed at Bletchley to see how it rode along ballast and sleepers until finally 'digging in'.

[great northern]

The difference is that the one in your pic shows the proper way of doing it. I suspect that if anything ran into the one at the south end shown in the pic which Andy posted it would have as likely run straight over it as have been stopped. For sand drags to work properly they need finer material which will retard the wheels by, in effect, clogging them. With larger mixed material there is a tendency for it to weather harden and for wheels to run over the top of it with far less retarding effect than sand. Just look at the pics of the electric loco recently derailed at Bletchley to see how it rode along ballast and sleepers until finally 'digging in'.

 

Which I suppose really begs the question - if they knew how to do it correctly, as they obviously did, why do it incorrectly just a couple of hundred yards away?

[great northern]

One or two more shots from this morning which I didn't have time to edit and post. First one is another angle of the Yorkshire Pullman. We may actually have platform tops in 48 hours time folks!

 

 

And almost immediately on the Down line the Queen of Scots arrives, but is held at signals.

 

 

And why has this prestigous and supposedly non stop train been delayed in this way?

 

 

Because it's train has separated half way along. I did consider trying to get away with this, but you sharp eyed lot would have spotted it. It happened because I stopped the train a bit sooner, and then decided to move it forward a little way. Obviously a coupling was directly over one of the under baseboard magnets. I never notice these things till it is too late.

 

A few comments about the attempt to blank out the bookcases. The difference between the blue of the card and that of the walls is not too noticeable in "real time". For some reason though the camera makes the card look brighter and the walls look duller! If I have the card sheets this way round I can't get them any lower, as they need to be secured to the cross frames of the bookcases. I will see what happens if I position them vertically instead, but I suspect it will mean I need a lot more card, and I've already bought more than £20 worth. Irritatingly, the bookcases still show in the top right corner unless I do some croppping, and gymnastics will be required to fit anything any higher. I shall await a flash of inspiration, but don't hold your breath.