RMweb Premium great northern Posted March 7, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2012 Gilbert, its good to know that the operation has been a success, just feel I am awaiting a Train back to the "Smoke" in 1959 after a holiday with family in Grantham.Tell me is the Peterborough North sign a bit Large, I seem to recall it is only temporary.Not for one minute wishing to be critical.Andy Y,s roof is unreal it looks so REAL,if that makes sense. Regards. Yes Derek, the sign is only temporary. Most, if not all of the signage is due to arrive when the overall roof is finished I think, as we will then have plenty of places to hang it from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted March 7, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2012 They should have fitted you with a bionic eye then you could airbrush out the ***** bookcases before posting!!!! Even better if I could just zap them out of existence, having first removed the books of course. Come to think of it, I could then zap a lot more things, couldn't I? People who park on pedestrian crossings for example and there are plenty more. Perhaps I should enquire about having that done? Probably not available on the NHS though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted March 7, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2012 It might be worthwhile noting here that in the late 1950s some enabling works for electrification were actually taking place on the ECML with some overbridges being rebuilt to ohle clearances so possibly there was a thought that work might be even closer than you suggest? I've been trying to find the books which might tell me what was proposed regarding the 1963 alterations, but I'm not helped by the fact that some idiot has stuck pieces of card all over the shelves, and that I can't quite see straight. Memory tells me that electrification would have resulted in a new station and realignment to get rid of the 20mph restriction. There would seem to have been little point in doing anything otherwise. I think therefore that it's unlikely that this was to do with ohle- more likely just a very tired 100+ year old structure giving up and collapsing. Stlll doesn't tell us why nothing was done to tidy it up though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gresley Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Even better if I could just zap them out of existence, having first removed the books of course. Come to think of it, I could then zap a lot more things, couldn't I? People who park on pedestrian crossings for example and there are plenty more. Perhaps I should enquire about having that done? Probably not available on the NHS though. Gilbert, with a bionic eye you could also zap out the NHS. Afterall, you wouldn't need it, would you ? gresley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Loving that black and white photo with the roof. It's just....real. Can I ask Andy Y how he got so good at Photoshop? I have it on my computer here, but just can't get to grips with it..... Ought I to just download some photos and practise? Or do I need to find a course? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted March 7, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2012 Just time for a brief visit at lunchtime today, to be greeted by Grantham's A3 Doncaster with an Up Newcastle relief, which it will have taken over at its home town. I'm not sure how we got from Platform 6 to Platform 3 so fast, we wouldn't have run across the tracks surely? Anyway the result is a classic view captured by many photographers, including Tim's Dad! In the holiday season, trains often ran in two or even more portions. No-one back then would have dreamed of cramming impossible numbers of people into totally inadequate accomodation. Such relief expresses were often made up of large numbers of Gresley stock, though sometimes the bottom of the barrel was scraped. Railway Observer records a non corridor coach on one such duty in Summer 1958, commenting that unsurprisingly it was empty, or at least it was when it left Kings Cross. I've put together a train of professionally kit built Gresley and Thompson stock, which I like so much that I designate it for all relief workings. That way I get to see the rake often. I thought you might like to see more of it too, so here are a succession of views. Don't they show up Hornby's effort? The main train soon followed. It is rather obvious that the loco is from a different shed. Gateshead's Gladiateur will work through to London. Filthy maybe, but a fairly rare sight this far South. There was time for just one more, which turned out to be a Colwick- Ferme Park class F, though today the loco is a LIncoln based K3. At least the fireman knows the correct code. 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I'm not sure how we got from Platform 6 to Platform 3 so fast, we wouldn't have run across the tracks surely? Anyway the result is a classic view captured by many photographers, including Tim's Dad! There are several of my Dad's photographs I'd like to be able to reproduce on your layout sometime in the future, though this one here will certainly have an interesting story about it. Did we ever get to the bottom of what could possibly have happened here? By the way, now that you've got both the arcade wall and new engine shed in, I'll be hoping to recreate that shot you sent me of 61098 soon. It's not long due to come out of works..... 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom F Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Cracking picture Tim. What was the reason for 29 having one coach behind? Definitely a shot to recreate I would think Gilbert Has your Dad thought about publishing these photos Tim? Some of those pictures (the Dominion of Canada photo in particular stands out) are really exceptional. They make you feel like you are actually there! Edited March 7, 2012 by Tom F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Cracking picture Tim. What was the reason for 29 having one coach behind? Definitely a shot to recreate I would think Gilbert Has your Dad thought about publishing these photos Tim? Some of those pictures (the Dominion of Canada photo in particular stands out) are really exceptional. They make you feel like you are actually there! I've asked him on several occasions and he seems rather undecided about it, maybe even rather indifferent in some cases. Sadly, some of the images (including the one of 60010 you mention) suffer from a little bit of exposure to the light before being developed. I have a feeling it was a Brownie, but I'm not entirely sure. Those taken in 1958 are much better and those taken in 1959 were on an Agfa Karat 35mm job. I shall broach the subject again in the fullness and see what goes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post coachmann Posted March 7, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) That steam era shot shows how much fidelity to prototype there is in Gilberts layout...... Edited March 7, 2012 by coachmann 21 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 That's really tickled me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Good job Coachman. As I read the threads backwards (from My Content) it took a couple of looks before I realized what you'd done! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted March 7, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2012 There are several of my Dad's photographs I'd like to be able to reproduce on your layout sometime in the future, though this one here will certainly have an interesting story about it. Did we ever get to the bottom of what could possibly have happened here? By the way, now that you've got both the arcade wall and new engine shed in, I'll be hoping to recreate that shot you sent me of 61098 soon. It's not long due to come out of works..... No, it's still a mystery so far as I'm concerned Tim. If the loco is at the end of one of the carriage sidings, I suppose it may be depositing the brake there, though I can't think why. If it is on the Up main, I am totally baffled. The loco carries Class B lamps, but this is not a passenger train. The Up main is signalled as clear, so it's unlikely that a stop would be made at Platform 2. The most likely solution at first sight is that Woodcock has either removed the brake from it's train, or is about to add it to the train. Neither however is possible. If this brake has been detached from the front of a train, the loco can't get to where it now is without a complex manouevre which would involve blocking the Down main twice. if on the other hand it is to be attached to the front of the train, that can't be done as the train is blocking the loco's path! Surely though an A4 towing one full brake is not going to set off London bound? It really has got me beaten at the moment. Does anyone else have any ideas? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted March 7, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2012 That steam era shot shows how much fidelity to prototype there is in Gilberts layout...... I was really pleased for a moment Larry - I thought you'd managed to move those ***** bookcases back in time and 50 odd miles. I've just been and looked though, and they're still there. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 No, it's still a mystery so far as I'm concerned Tim. If the loco is at the end of one of the carriage sidings, I suppose it may be depositing the brake there, though I can't think why. If it is on the Up main, I am totally baffled. The loco carries Class B lamps, but this is not a passenger train. The Up main is signalled as clear, so it's unlikely that a stop would be made at Platform 2. The most likely solution at first sight is that Woodcock has either removed the brake from it's train, or is about to add it to the train. Neither however is possible. If this brake has been detached from the front of a train, the loco can't get to where it now is without a complex manouevre which would involve blocking the Down main twice. if on the other hand it is to be attached to the front of the train, that can't be done as the train is blocking the loco's path! Surely though an A4 towing one full brake is not going to set off London bound? It really has got me beaten at the moment. Does anyone else have any ideas? Having looked closer at it, I think that's sat on the line next to the up main, though it still doesn't help matters! What Dad and I still can't work out is why he only took the one shot that day.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gresley Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 It's only a guess, but is 29 actually moving in reverse here ? Fireman seems to be looking to the rear and the light smoke is moving to the right. gresley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 It's only a guess, but is 29 actually moving in reverse here ? Fireman seems to be looking to the rear and the light smoke is moving to the right. gresley It is, yes. A theory is that it's removing a defective coach and putting it in the carriage sidings before heading back south. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted March 7, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2012 It is, yes. A theory is that it's removing a defective coach and putting it in the carriage sidings before heading back south. OK, if she's in reverse,( I can't see that well close up at the moment), she isn't on the Up main, or I hope she isn't, as there will shortly be a nasty accident if she is as the signals are off. As the signals are off, that also logically means that there is no train in Platform 2. The only possible way 29 facing South could be removing that full brake from a train would be from a train in Platform 2, as it was the only platform available to up trains. The mystery is not solved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 .Dear Gilbert, I have just completed my 2 week digestion of this thread and what a treat! I won't repeat the superlatives, suffice to say that I now have the inspiration to push on with my own project. I have, on my travel through the development of PN, gathered some questions. If you could see your way to answer them I would be extremely grateful. In laying the track in the fiddle yard, what did you use to hold it in position before final placement? Can you tell me why you decided to use slow-action motors for the fiddle yard? I have never seen sand pits used at catch points. Was/is this a widely used or a regional feature? In the fullness of time, do you intend to 'populate' the layout? regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 29 is in reverse gear 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted March 7, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2012 .Dear Gilbert, I have just completed my 2 week digestion of this thread and what a treat! I won't repeat the superlatives, suffice to say that I now have the inspiration to push on with my own project. I have, on my travel through the development of PN, gathered some questions. If you could see your way to answer them I would be extremely grateful. In laying the track in the fiddle yard, what did you use to hold it in position before final placement? Can you tell me why you decided to use slow-action motors for the fiddle yard? I have never seen sand pits used at catch points. Was/is this a widely used or a regional feature? In the fullness of time, do you intend to 'populate' the layout? regards Dave Thanks Dave, and welcome to the thread! I'm always happy to answer questions if I can. Where I was using paper templates (from Templot), I stuck them down with double sided tape. Peco track and points in general were just placed in position. That wasn't a great idea, as it did allow the possibility of slight misalignments which became bigger further along the line. In the end, we laid it and pinned it as we went along. I have to say though that some parts were laid, lifted and laid again several times. That's how I've always found things so far as fiddle yards are concerned. On my previous layout I used Peco solenoid motors in the fiddle yard. I found that eventually the force of continual operation caused some to fail, so I took them out and repaced them with Tortoises. By the time I started this layout I had a lot of Tortoises, so it seemed a good idea to re-use them. Then I decided to try some Cobalts, so I still have some spare Tortoises lying about! Also I found that slow action motors were easier to use with DCC. As to the sand drags, one of the joys of modelling a prototype is that you just do what you see in photos. I honestly can't remember seeing either of the methods used at Peterborough employed anywhere else - it really does seem to have been a very idiosyncratic place. The layout will eventually be populated. As you have seen, there was hardly anywhere for anyone to stand until very recently anyway, but yes, some signs of a reason for the station's existence are essential. My thoughts at the moment tend towards putting most passengers under the overall roof, where their lack of resemblance to the real thing won't be so noticeable. There don't seem to have been any seats provided out in the open, so little reason for anyone not interested in trains to venture out particularly if it was raining. I really do think that figures are normally the destroyers of the illusion of reality even on the very best layouts, so I try to make them as unobtrusive as I can. Hope that helps. Gilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 8, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2012 Don't suppose the brake might be carrying 'special' stuff like used bank notes? I have a vague idea that there was a place in Peterboro' that used to 'recycle' these (burn them?). Could also be a 'cripple' having to be parked? The A4 is defo in reverse gear as confirmed above. Is it waiting for the pegged express to pass through before trundling back up to the yards? Is it possible it came up from the yards north of the station to this position (or is that not a possibility?), having dumped some other stuff and then had to place this particular coach somewhere more secure? Alternatively it could be a footex with all the Boro' fans being carted off to some fixture? Only the best stock for footex Do love these mysteries; someone on the LNER Forum will know the answer P @ 36E 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I really do think that figures are normally the destroyers of the illusion of reality even on the very best layouts, so I try to make them as unobtrusive as I can. I have to agree, and even in 7mm scale, they are often grossly out of proportion and poorly made. Even rthe best painters fail to make much of them. It defeats me as to how we can search for such realism in things like lamps, signals, buildings, etc, then let the whole lot down with totally unrealistic figures.. Reminds me of a story I read years ago in the 4th Pan Book of Horror Stories, entitled, "Tha Attic Express", where a guy gets shrunk down to 4mm scale, climbs aboard one of his model locos, and his son sets it off on a nightmare journey. His description of the people populating the layout has stuck with me for years, and it wasn't kind. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 8, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2012 Re these 'orrible figures. I think the chap with that very nice layout depicting the Southern in 2nd world war mode (can't think of name just now) has cracked the realism with figures but of course they are (mostly?) military figures. They look truly superb at distance & up close (see pics on exhibition threads). GN can get away with doing quite a lot with military (well RAF/USAF) types at his station due to location. Maybe throw in a few Navy types for good measure as they often went ECML to Scottyland. If they take pride of place then perhaps the civilians will be outnumbered & look OK, but only if they are painted very well. JeffP is spot on about that. Perhaps we have a new sub plot here in that we can search for the 'good looking models' and layouts with realistic figures so that GN can be inspired or find out who does the detailing. The bods in coaches can be just reasonable colours; bit more care if leaning out of a drop. (There has been discussion on populating stock). RTR staff models seem reasonable and in scale, but passengers/bystanders are a bit of a mystery to me as I've not really looked at these. Sorry have to go as Jumpin Jack Flash is on R2 and I need to pretend to play guitar.... P @ 36E 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 You'll be thinking of Pete Goss's excellent Rowlands Castle (if you know the village you'll understand just how good it is). Pete produces the figures commercially too - http://www.freewebs.com/rowlandscastlemodelrailway/petegossfiguresinfo.htm & http://www.freewebs.com/rowlandscastlemodelrailway/apps/webstore/ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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