Colin parks Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I have decided that it was best to get another topic going for the next project. Thanks to Ben04UK having sent me a picture of some ex-revenue 10ft wb open wagons at Brighton in the 70's, I am embarking on assembling a train of open wagons of this type. It is going to involve building some Parkside kits for the Medfits and Hybar opens with corrugated ends and repainting a couple of Bachmann RTR wagons. There is the small matter of how to represent some SR-built Dia. 1375 wagons with vacuum-fitted chassis. More of that another time. The first picture shows not an open wagon but a really ancient Dogfish kit which I found in my Dad's old things. I must have sent him a kit when working on the moulds many years ago. I shall be adding wire handrails on the end, having chopped off the plastic ones and pre-drilled the stanchions before assembly. This wagon will be DB993500, with flared side chutes as used on the BR/SR for the ballast to clear the third rails. I'm not happy with the vacuum pipe running atop the chassis from end to end. It should go under the platform on the near side rather than crossing over as it does here. Shall have to change that. Definitely the last Dogfish! The next picture shows the embryonic train of opens. Yes, I know there are two RTR models in a 'Kit Building & Scratch-building' topic, but there is a Parkside all-steel open there too. It gives an interesting comparison between kit and RTR. The shock open was bought because I was too lazy to contemplate painting the white lines onto a kit built one! On the down side, the interior detail of RTR wagons is pretty basic and this one will have to have be modelled with a load to be convincing. The paintwork of all the wagons will be heavily weathered and patch-painted like the prototypes in departmental use. The unlettered open will be re-painted in olive green and most of the wagons will receive a light green flash in the top L/H corner of the body side for good measure. Apart from the aforementioned photo, all photographic references are going to be taken from Paul Bartlett's railway wagons website. Eventually there will be twelve open wagons in this train....... Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edubs Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Sorry to repeat myself, as I already posted something simillar in your layout thread, but the body mouldings from the Parkside Dundas LNER wooden high kit are very close to the Bullied diag. 1375. Would need to mount on Morton type AVB underframe, or independant type HBO if any lasted into your era unfitted. I did one a few years ago as an ex-MOS wagon as returned to BR LMR and later fitted with AVB and BR type axleguards and axleboxes. Got a pic if yr interested Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Sorry to repeat myself, So am I : They are pretty much interchangeble bodywise, although the kit has a 'proper' curbrail rather than visible floor planks (and which incidentally doesn't seem true of the prototype of the LNER wagon). That would actually make it more suitable for the BR dia 1/045 which were intended as corrugated-end 1/044s but turned out as all-wood, presumably due to material supply problems. Other than the GW 5-and-a-half plank designs and the LNER 6-plankers, most post-1930s wooden High Goods are very, very similar bodywise; minor differences include shape of door springs (and consequently the bang plates on the doors), amount of bolting on the corner plates, shape of headstocks (square ended or angled) and shape of end stanchions . I did one a few years ago as an ex-MOS wagon as returned to BR LMR and later fitted with AVB and BR type axleguards and axleboxes. Got a pic if yr interested Yes please (and assuming Colin doesnt mind) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Sorry to repeat myself, as I already posted something simillar in your layout thread, but the body mouldings from the Parkside Dundas LNER wooden high kit are very close to the Bullied diag. 1375. Would need to mount on Morton type AVB underframe, or independant type HBO if any lasted into your era unfitted. I did one a few years ago as an ex-MOS wagon as returned to BR LMR and later fitted with AVB and BR type axleguards and axleboxes. Got a pic if yr interested Hi edubs, Don't worry about the repeats. I have come to the conclusion that the Parkside body is the nearest available body for the Dia. 1375 wagons too. However, my brother might introduce a kit for this particular SR wagon later this year, so I might wait for that kit to appear to get exactly the right body style. I only need about five of this sort of wagon to make up the right kind of mix in the train I intend to model. The Parkside 10ft wb vac. braked steel under frame kit has headstocks with buffers that look like Oleo ones - just right for the later Dia. 1375 rebuilds. I'd like to see the picture you mention too. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edubs Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Ex MOS Bullied diag. 1375 as updated by BR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 That's a very nice wagon edubs. What did you make it from? I like the detail of the steel channels sustituting for planks that you have modelled on the ends. I presume that it has a vacuum fitted chassis, which looks like something from Parkside's range. Edit: Looking again at the picture, your work on the weathering and high standard of detailing reminds me of the work of Ian Fleming, whose work I have seen in some old BRMs. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Hi Colin, I have been working on similar wagons for some time, using Paul Bartlett's photos as a guide. So far I have done a Parkside steel open, Airfix 5 plank wagon with comet W irons, MJT springs and ABS brakegear, a Mainline 3plank open with a Parkside 10' LMS VB chassis and a Parkside LMS steel open. After seeing Newhaven at Nottingham I have been bitten by the bug and am going to do more!! I have got a Chivers Tunny and Ling, and a Cambrian Dogfish and Dancehall brake to finish. All of the prototypes for these wagons were photographed somewhere on the Southern. I look forward to seeing your wagons progress. Cheers for now, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edubs Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 That's a very nice wagon edubs. What did you make it from? I like the detail of the steel channels sustituting for planks that you have modelled on the ends. I presume that it has a vacuum fitted chassis, which looks like something from Parkside's range. Edit: Looking again at the picture, your work on the weathering and high standard of detailing reminds me of the work of Ian Fleming, whose work I have seen in some old BRMs. Colin Thanks Colin, praise indeed! though I think that if you zoom in on the picture the added details start to look a bit wonky and heavy, but I am happy with the weathering on this one. It is indeed a Parkside LNE wooden high body mounted on a Parkside BR van underframe, with a few details added in styrene strip, MJT vac pipes, and the steel channel added in the ends as you noticed. Cheers, Eddie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 3, 2011 Author Share Posted May 3, 2011 Hi Colin, I have been working on similar wagons for some time, using Paul Bartlett's photos as a guide. So far I have done a Parkside steel open, Airfix 5 plank wagon with comet W irons, MJT springs and ABS brakegear, a Mainline 3plank open with a Parkside 10' LMS VB chassis and a Parkside LMS steel open. After seeing Newhaven at Nottingham I have been bitten by the bug and am going to do more!! I have got a Chivers Tunny and Ling, and a Cambrian Dogfish and Dancehall brake to finish. All of the prototypes for these wagons were photographed somewhere on the Southern. I look forward to seeing your wagons progress. Cheers for now, Ian. Hi Ian, So you're at it too!! Your selection of photos show just the kind of wagons I am going to be making. I shall be finishing my Parkside steel open much the same as yours in olive green. I rather like the wooden bodied Medfit, is that a kit? Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 3, 2011 Author Share Posted May 3, 2011 Thanks Colin, praise indeed! though I think that if you zoom in on the picture the added details start to look a bit wonky and heavy, but I am happy with the weathering on this one. It is indeed a Parkside LNE wooden high body mounted on a Parkside BR van underframe, with a few details added in styrene strip, MJT vac pipes, and the steel channel added in the ends as you noticed. Cheers, Eddie. Hi Eddie, That combination of Parkside LNER open wagon body and BR van underframe is what I had contemplated too. The SR version had different corner plates, but as these wagons were found with the other types, I might make a few of each. That looks like a bit of very careful surgery you did there on the ends of the wagon to incorporate the steel channels. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Hi Colin, The Medfit is an ancient RTR body, possibly Airfix, on a Parkside LMS 10' VB chassis with ABS buffers. It is a really easy conversion to do. Glad you like the photos. Cheers for now, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 The Medfit is an ancient RTR body, possibly Airfix Could it be Trix? I don't think Airfix ever did a Medfit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Could it be Trix? I don't think Airfix ever did a Medfit. I've a Trix Medfit, which looks a lot like the wagon in the photo. It had one of their very-free-running underframes ('where's it gone?') which was half-way correct, in that it had secondary suspension, but 4-shoe brakes. The Trix range had a few interesting vehicles in it- 20t Pig-Iron wagon and Conflat with Speedfreight containers amongst them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Could it be Trix? I don't think Airfix ever did a Medfit. Just checked in Ramsay's catalogue and the medfit is a Mainline model based on Airfix design work. All it's got on the underneath is Hong Kong. It may still be available in some form or another. Cheers for now, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 Thanks to all for your replies. I have noticed that there is a Medfit (at least,I think it is) available RTR with a container at the moment. Might buy one of those and repaint it. There was just one small bit of bodging that needed doing to the Bachmann RTR open shock wagon before painting and weathering. I had the good fortune to find that on this model, all that I needed to do to set the coupling back to the required setting of .030" in front of the buffer heads was to do remove the NEM adaptor then superglue the prongs into the mounting block as shown. There should be a .010" packing piece under the prongs to maintain the correct heigh in the mounting block, but I just juggled the coupling into place then let the superglue do the rest (the lazy way!) The wheels are going to have their flanges turned down to a finer profile. A rake of these wagons, with the couplings so adapted will still easily negotiate 24" curves. I have not done tests, but think these short wheelbase wagons could have had the coulpling bars set flush with the buffers, so that they actually 'buffered-up' when being pushed. Even so, the gap between the buffer faces of the wagons is only approx. 3mm when being pulled and 1mm when pushed with the couplings set as I have done. It has to be said that not all Bachmann wagons are this simple to alter: The four TTAs had to have their 'prongs shortened by 2mm before re-glueing into the mounting blocks. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Trix Medfit,... had one of their very-free-running underframes ('where's it gone?') I remember those. The plastic had a sort of graphite-like quality about it, and the metal wheels were very well machined - I used a few sets in kitbuilds at one time til I went all 'finescale' I have noticed that there is a Medfit (at least,I think it is) available RTR with a container at the moment. Might buy one of those and repaint it. The Bachy Medfit (body) is basically the same model as the Mainline, and it's also been available from Dapol; they're all pretty easy to find s/h and the beauty of the Bachy one (or the Mainline first issue) is that it gives you a tidy basic livery and lettering. A detail point about 5Bel's model is that it (correctly) has additional ironwork outwith the buffers - this was only fitted to later builds, so you need to be careful with numbering. But plenty of the older wagons survived, there were after all many thousands of them Ian - one point about your 5-planker if you dont mind me mentioning - B475006 is one of those that Swindon built to a GW order/design (dia 1/032 IIRC), and should actually be a 'five and a half', i.e it should have a sixth plank, narrower than the others A rake of these wagons, with the couplings so adapted will still easily negotiate 24" curves. I have not done tests, but think these short wheelbase wagons could have had the coulpling bars set flush with the buffers, so that they actually 'buffered-up' when being pushed. I've been experimenting myself lately with Bachy couplings set into Chivers mounting blocks, and I've also set the bars level with the buffer heads Thanks for the namecheck on the BRM articles BTW Colin, it's nice that folk still remember them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edubs Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 ^Ah so that's who you are! pleased to know. Forgive my ignorance, I know we have chatted on here in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edubs Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Hi Eddie, That combination of Parkside LNER open wagon body and BR van underframe is what I had contemplated too. The SR version had different corner plates, but as these wagons were found with the other types, I might make a few of each. That looks like a bit of very careful surgery you did there on the ends of the wagon to incorporate the steel channels. All the best, Colin Yes I think the corner plates are slightly smaller on the Bullied wagons, with fewer bolts, something I neglected to do on mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 Well I must read those lines in greyscale at the bottom of people's posts: So the Ian Fleming is among us then! Well strangely enough I was looking at an old BRM just last night and in particular at a picture of an LMS medium goods wagon with corrugated ends in one of Ian's articles. I will be building a few of those wagons and will base the paint finish on that of yours. I was given the old mags by a friend. I only returned to the hobby six years ago, so was lucky to get the back numbers. I know my friend Simon had kept those BRMs for Ian's wagon articles too. Edit: It was an LMS type High Goods - Thanks HMRSPaul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 ^Ah so that's who you are! pleased to know. Forgive my ignorance, I know we have chatted on here in the past. We have Eddie, I recall other pics of your models, largely due to their nice finishes Well I must read those lines in greyscale at the bottom of people's posts: So the Ian Fleming is among us then! TBH Colin, it's only recently been in there. I'm always faffing with my signatures, sometimes it's just my Christian name and others, no name at all. I'm not really in the habit of posting WB threads these days so I suppose it's less obvious what I 'do'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Hi Gents Which Humbrol colour is the green triangle on the open wagon bodyside corner please ? Cheers, SM46 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Hi Gents Which Humbrol colour is the green triangle on the open wagon bodyside corner please ? Cheers, SM46 A good question Southernman46. I mixed some old Precision Paints EMU stock green with Humbrol matt white paint until the colour looked right. I did wonder what colour was used by BR, it is too vivid to be the same as the cab interior green. With the wagons I am building, the paintwork will varied to give the effect of ageing. Not that a ready-mixed paint does not exist, but I have never seen the colour listed anywhere. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Hi All, Southernman46, I have used Humbrol matt 31, matt slate grey. I didn't even realize it was a shade of grey until I checked the Humbrol chart! Pennine, thanks for the info regarding the 51/2 plank wagon. I will have to look closer next time. Cheers for now, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Well strangely enough I was looking at an old BRM just last night and in particular at a picture of an LMS medium goods wagon with corrugated ends in one of Ian's articles. I will be building a few of those wagons and will base the paint finish on that of yours. May I assume you meant a "High goods"? I cannot think of a single corrugated ended "Medium goods" - the LMS ones had wooden ends (Ratio kit) and BR introduced a unique steel design (as poorly modelled by Triang ayons ago. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 May I assume you meant a "High goods"? I cannot think of a single corrugated ended "Medium goods" - the LMS ones had wooden ends (Ratio kit) and BR introduced a unique steel design (as poorly modelled by Triang ayons ago. Paul Bartlett Hi Paul, You are correct. I am guilty of writing faster than I was thinking! The kits I have ordered are the Parkside LMS-type high goods and a BR medium goods with the all-steel body. There are so many possibilties for forming trains with ex-revenue wagons that one train might not be enough (I am limited on my layout to a train length of ten 10ft wb wagons plus brake van). As you spent so much time 'around the sidings', would you be able to say if the spoil trains were generally formed of groups of very similar wagons? It does seem, from looking through your photos, as though the Southern Region at least, kept thier departmental wagons grouped by capacity and and/or type. Excellent new website you have, by the way. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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