New wagons for Newhaven

[Colin parks]

The Poclain Lowmac was used for excavating foundations for structures such as OHL supports. The equipment on the ground at Newhaven tip would probably be similar to other such operations around the country. There'd be one or more tracked excavators, a bulldozer (to level out the spoil), and sometimes a superannuated tipper lorry or two to carry spoil to the further reaches of the tip. Some tips would have a 'screen', which would separate the larger pieces of ballast from the 'fines'- this material would be sold on to local builders and civil engineers as 'sub-base'- tips with such an operation would have a tractor-shovel to load the screen. Wagons with full drop-sides would be preferred, when available, as they could be unloaded by dropping the sides and scraping across with the bucket. Using a five-planker (or a mineral) was more laborious.

 

 

Yes, Fat Controller,

 

I'm sure you're right in saying that Poclain Lowmacs were used just for digging holes along the lineside. Your list of machines at a landfill site agrees with Karabuni's analysis of his photo of Newhaven tip/ Beach sidings. I can remember all of the types you mention.

 

I am stretching a point by having one of these vehicles on the layout, but I intend to include it in a train with a mess van, 'Dance-Hall' brake van and a few sundry spoil wagons. To be flexible, the excavator will be detachable from the Lowmac, though I can't envisage modelling a spoil tip for it to stand about on. Very little happened in terms of wagon movement at these sites and at very low speeds when it did.

 

I bet it took quite a while to unload a whole train. (A day at least?).

 

Colin

[Fat Controller]

From my time spent 'working' opposite Alsager tip: a rake of wagons would be worked in each day, then replaced by the next day's wagons. There was somewhere (Patchway, mid-1970s?) where a cable-operated excavator was used, a bit like this one from the Corgi Trackside range:-

http://www.corgi.co.uk/shop/1133/ruston-bucyrus-19--skimmer--green-circa-1937-dg225003/?from_categories=trackside/trackside-construction

The only Poclains I ever noticed were on a curious 3-wheeled chassis, popular with scrap merchants- I don't think they'd survive long on an uneven surface like a tip.

[Colin parks]

A bit more progress on the Poclain yesterday. The jib seems to be about right in relation to the overhang on the match truck. I presume the excavator is mounted with the jib on the centreline of the Lowmac and its base equidistant from either end, but this will have to be checked. Jonhall's plan of a different type Poclain seems to bear out my assumption of the jib's position, with cab and bodywork off-centre.

 

 

If all goes well, the jib will be supported by three struts fixed to the Lowmac's sloping decking. The bucket will also rest on the sloping part of the deck and there is a plate over the coupling at the jib end to be made. There was a cab roof too, but it was so small I accidentally threw it in the bin with some plasticard off-cuts -grrr.

 

Perhaps a Dapol JCB would have been an easier option.

 

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Oh, how I wished I'd built something else!

 

But seriously, the Polain/Lowmac nears completion.

 

 

The base of the excavator nearly drove me mad. There were dozens of ribs and bolts to be added:

 

 

An interesting diversion from building EMUs.

 

Colin

[BernardTPM]

That's a superb build, Colin, and SO different!

[georgeT]

Hi Colin, Superb scratch-building, well done, love the match truck, great addition to your ever growing freight stock,

l was looking at the electric units you have built, the memories flooded back to me, l used to live in Portsmouth, and travelled up to Waterloo most saturdays in the early 60s, on those units, never bothered with any numbers as they were common then, all we wanted was the steam loco numbers Bullieds etc etc...................

[Colin parks]

Thanks to George and Bernard for your kind comments.

 

I have discovered a (or should that be 'the') Belgian Poclain enthusiast's website. This site has a few useful plans in a section curiously (or perhaps not - if you are Belgian) 'Gamma'. Having looked at those plans, I have now deduced that the Poclains fitted to Lowmacs must be an earlier design of a TC30 excavator, adapted for the specific job of digging trackside holes on BR. Totally unsuitable for my layout, but there we are then.

 

Now, interestingly, there is a picture of a TC30 excavator being transported in a Grampus wagon at Bristol East depot on Paul Bartlett's website. This one has a back-hoe bucket and I think it is tracked/self-propelled. The jib is also of the more standard type. I am tempted to make one of these tracked excavators in the future.

 

Meanwhile, the project has almost reached the painting stage. There are still some spare buckets to make and a decision on the colour scheme. I want to go for Poclain red/grey, but BR yellow would mean I could probably find some suitable transfers from somewhere. As for the wagon markings, it looks like omitting all but the running numbers will have to do for now.

 

Having fixed the hydraulic pipes and various tiny handles, the machine is looking something like the real thing. The jib support struts will be in the right place once painted and re-assembled. In fact, the whole lot comes apart into various sub-assemblies for ease of painting.

 

 

Colin

 

Edited for spelling.

[Rivercider]

Progress is looking good, there is plenty of variety to be had in the engineers fleet.

 

In the late 1970s/early 1980s the civil engineers in Bristol used to have a Poclain on semi-permanent hire.

I think it used to be loaded Ashton Gate then work from East Depot to and from site.

 

It was chosen because of its relatively small size, but even so, when planning the route to work site

it had to be loaded with the offset cab towards the 6 foot side. However between Bristol and Westbury

the line passes under the Kennet and Avon canal at a couple of points, these bridges are twin bore........

The cab was subsequently rebuilt to be detachable/hingeable!

 

cheers

[Colin parks]

Progress is looking good, there is plenty of variety to be had in the engineers fleet.

 

In the late 1970s/early 1980s the civil engineers in Bristol used to have a Poclain on semi-permanent hire.

I think it used to be loaded Ashton Gate then work from East Depot to and from site.

 

It was chosen because of its relatively small size, but even so, when planning the route to work site

it had to be loaded with the offset cab towards the 6 foot side. However between Bristol and Westbury

the line passes under the Kennet and Avon canal at a couple of points, these bridges are twin bore........

The cab was subsequently rebuilt to be detachable/hingeable!

 

cheers

 

Interesting indeed Rivercider.

 

I had been to the Bristol East yard in about 1985 as it happens. It was pretty huge, but I don't remember seeing the Poclain excavator - but we were more interested in the Sharks at the time. I did think when scaling up the Poclain to make the drawings for the model that it was getting close to the loading gauge limits. I suppose that's why Lowmacs were used. As you say, the Poclain is set closer to the edge of the wagon on the cabside. I assume that the jib of the excavator has to be on the centre line of the wagon for balance. That is how it has been be modelled too, but it does look a bit odd with the cab to one side.

 

The Grampus wagons would have been ideal for the tracked excavator to work up and down of course. This probably made it worth the headache of routing them around tight spots. I think the Bristol based excavator was a Poclain TC30.

 

You are certainly right in saying that there were numerous interesting and sometimes seemingly improvised wagon conversions about in that period.

 

Colin

[karabuni]

Hi Colin,

 

The picture of the CCE tip at Tidemills is 1971 or '72. I have two other pictures, but the wagons are even further away.

 

The D1375 5 plank kit: buffers will be separate. It could include a vacuum cylinder.

 

Not a wagon, but a Southern Region de-icing unit would be interesting. Ex- 2HAL (probably 002) was at Brighton in the early 70s, still in green with yellow front. They also had Sandite and rail cleaning gear, so it doesn't have to be icy - although "night" running with blue flashes would be something different!

 

From RMweb 2009 (found through Google):

"The Southern Region dumped ballast behind the beach at Tidemills, Newhaven for years - I wasn't paying much attention to what they were doing with it at the time as I was trying to roll Grampus wagons around [without success] but eventually there was a huge flat area of it. Engineers trains would end up there after weekend work and were a regular sight from classrooms during the week when I was supposed to be concentrating at school... Always though it would make a nice shunting plank - a beach, lots of sea cabbage, a few wagons and an 09."

Oh, those were the days! Before Health & Safety went mad, and just the occasional severed foot.

 

An actual vehicle based at the tip, from an Auction Catalogue listing:

"Interesting c/i oval SR Coach Builder's Works Plate that reads "S R 1208 ASHFORD" in raised yellow letters & rim on very dark green background. Back shows "DS70223" painted in white in the centre, witha few rusty chips noted. It originates from Departmental Vehicle ex- Maunsell PMV 1208, converted in Feb. 1965 to a CCE Staff & Tool Van for Mitcham & later went to Newhaven & Brighton CCE Tip. Condemned Oct 1977 & scrapped at King's, Snailwell, Dec. 1978…"

 

HIstorical:

Newhaven RNAS WW1seaplane base (East beach). Modern views are too modern, though.

http://forums.airsho...hp?f=40&t=18973 (pictures load in first post - be patient)

One of these sheds was moved to the Railway Quay near the Harbour station, but burnt down in the 1960s. The other still exists at Wimbledon Depot.

 

Bulleid Brake Coach 2526 - internal user at Newhaven, until 1974:

http://www.bluebell-.../2526/2526.html

En route to Newhaven in olive green livery:

http://www.departmen...om/photo/082232

 

Here's a detail of Bristol East Yard, possibly taken on one of the "visits" in the 1980s. The smaller digger is fairly similar to the one you're building, but has tracks. The one beyond is a Hymac 580C on a Loriot W. The accompanying Grampus wagons are interesting, as they contain spare buckets and drums of diesel etc. Possibly the cab of the nearer digger is in the wagon behind the jib.

 

 

Barry.

[Portchullin Tatty]

Colin, you do have a liking for the different!!!

 

I think this is great and I guess that you will be safe from the fear that Bachmann will annouce a model of Polain/Lowmac in their catalogue for next year?

 

Keep up the good work.

[Colin parks]

Thanks to you barry for the Bristol East photo and the links too.

 

That excavator must be the one in the Paul Bartlett photo, but after the conversion as mentioned by Rivercider, where the cab was made to fold down. Having studied the photos again, the excavator I have modelled seems to have a cab which hinged downwards in the same way as the above 'Bristol' one. As we can now see the tracks, I am confident in saying that the Bristol example is a Poclain TC30. It has the back panel removed.

 

As for PortchullinTatty's comment re. Bachmann - nothing is safe (is it Barry!)

 

Colin

[Oldddudders]

Not a wagon, but a Southern Region de-icing unit would be interesting. Ex- 2HAL (probably 002) was at Brighton in the early 70s, still in green with yellow front. They also had Sandite and rail cleaning gear, so it doesn't have to be icy - although "night" running with blue flashes would be something different!

Certainly an interesting and "different" model. I recall Allan Barter, SE Divisional Traction Engineer for many years, telling me that things could get a bit tight in a year when a late Autumn, requiring Sandite application, quickly turned to a sharp Winter, needing de-icing fluid or "oil sprays", because the units needed quite a bit of alteration between the two functions.

 

I believe these days NR uses something called RHTT to achieve the result. The days of plasma torches and water cannon are long gone!

[Colin parks]

More distractions from the more difficult tasks in hand: Two Ratio LMS 3-plank opens. One has a Parkside vacuum-braked, J-hanger, clasp-brake chassis grafted onto the Ratio body. A picture of one of these wagons appears on Paul Bartletts website. I have also added the extra stanchions on the ends, though I suspect they were pitched slightly wider apart than the original strapping - which was retained on this model (lazy me). Almost all these wagons received an extra piece of strapping at the centre of the drop-side. I've added them. but they still need some rivet detail.

 

The L/H wagon has some odd extensions to the head stocks which I have forgotten to remove.

 

 

The other wagon has the Ratio chassis with added vacuum brake gear. I suspect that this is a generic GWR chassis, the axle boxes look a bit 'under-fed'. A fortunate find in my local model shop yesterday was a packet of Bachmann loco tender sprung buffers - blackened too. These are just right for the particular wagon on which the model is based. The buffer heads have been reduced to 4 mm diameter by rotating the buffer in a pin vice held against a fine file.

 

 

[tanyaj]

Amazing models and i love the grampuses

Cambrian kits are bringing out a British Railways (ex Southern) 3 plank kit. See under British Railways wagons here;

 

http://www.cambrianmodels.co.uk/wagon_kits.html#srp

[Southernman46]

Ho-ho - OT, I know but just seen the 1/420 timber wagon planned too.................

[Fat Controller]

Amazing models and i love the grampuses

Cambrian kits are bringing out a British Railways (ex Southern) 3 plank kit. See under British Railways wagons here;

 

http://www.cambrianm...n_kits.html#srp

...And also the 5-plank dropside which was, according to Larkin, a mistake. Most went over to the engineers' fleets very quickly, though I did see one in revenue service in the early 1970s.

[Colin parks]

Amazing models and i love the grampuses

Cambrian kits are bringing out a British Railways (ex Southern) 3 plank kit. See under British Railways wagons here;

 

http://www.cambrianm...n_kits.html#srp

 

Thanks for comment and the link (to my brother's website!) tanyaj.

 

I am sure to buy some of those Cambrian wagons too. I have nagged him about producing some of the wagons, so I feel obliged anyway. However, I have been trying to vary the stock on the layout a bit as it was not representative of what really ran in Newhaven. Wagons from all of the 'Big Four' ran on the Southern Region, as well as the usual BR ones.

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

...And also the 5-plank dropside which was, according to Larkin, a mistake. Most went over to the engineers' fleets very quickly, though I did see one in revenue service in the early 1970s.

 

Hi Fatcontroller,

 

Yes I''l be buying a 5-plank or two as well. There is a picture on the web of one at Newhaven Beach sidings, coupled to a Grampus. I have read a David Larkin article in which he states that BR didn't know Ashford(?) had built 100 5-planks on a 3-plank diagram! (I think that was the situation.)

 

Colin

[Fat Controller]

Hi Fatcontroller,

 

Yes I''l be buying a 5-plank or two as well. There is a picture on the web of one at Newhaven Beach sidings, coupled to a Grampus. I have read a David Larkin article in which he states that BR didn't know Ashford(?) had built 100 5-planks on a 3-plank diagram! (I think that was the situation.)

 

Colin

Numeracy standards were obviously as high then in Ashford as they are today... DL repeats the suggestion in the latest album, dedicated to Departmental stock in the period from 1948 to 1967- well worth a look.