Georgeconna Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Hi Folks, Have not posted a proper topic here so I thought I might Grab 2013 while its Fresh and start to post up here as there are obviously some wonderful modellers and great feel of community. I usually work with plastic kits and resin but have made one Brass Push pull coach already from Roxly models so this is a big hill to climb!! I purchased this kit from Studio Scale Models based in Ennis,Co. Clare, Ireland. They specilise in all things Irish and heres the link: http://homepage.eircom.net/~studioscale/index.html. This particular class of engine was used on the West Cork Railways system (long gone) so is from my local hunting ground so to speak and she is quite an elegant engine in itself. The loco was built by Beyer Peacock from 1906 to 1920. They worked until 1963 and none were preserved. I started it a few days ago so it is a work in progress at this stage so forgive the massive start post. The pack consists of 2 sheets of brass etch ( I think this is now redone in a different medium now), Wheels, motor and gear box and white metal detail parts along with some handrail wire. everything you need Heres a piccy of the brass but as you can see I have already started. I started with the main body and soldered the valances onto the underneath of the footplace, then a tank side and the cab front. unfortunately some of the tab holes in the footplate were only half etched through so I filed the tabs down in order to used the half etched slots as a guide. Here you can see the two tank sides on and the tank tops, which are are few mm's short so I just fashioned a new set to overlay the short ones to overcome that little problem. The tank filler cap holes were drilled out. As you can see here I have the cab done and the chassis fixing bolts soldered in place A test fit of the boiler raised the little issue that it was too big, I had the Belpaire version so Des from SSM kindly posted a correct 17.5MM one to me. The Firebox backplate was test fitted and a brass strip was soldered around the edge for a better profile, there are detail parts to be added to this later The brass overlays were soldered in place on each of the tank and cab sides and well as the bunker. As I waited for the replacement boiler to come in the post I made up the smoke box and soldered the white metal smoke box door in place, Teh smokebox door wheel was superglued in place. The buffers were also soldered in place which I will need to sand off the seam line before priming Next to do was the chassis, 1st time round to do a job like this!!. I needed to ream out the holes to accept the bearings, The chassis brass was prehaps a wee bit to thin for the job IMHO. Here are the axles for a bit of a test fit, as you can see the slot for the tab on the chassis spacer are not aligned correctly so the tab was filed off. The new boiler arrived and fitted nice and snug under the smokebox but I need to use some plasticard here which was wrapped aorund the tube and heated up with the soldering iron so as to take the shape of the boiler as It would be used as a fillet between the smokebox cover and the boiler, you can see it in white here. I also soldered on the frame extensions and the footsteps and put the wheels on for test. There was a good bit of brass to cut away from the footplate to make room for the last two driving wheels. I then drilled the holes in the boiler to accept the dome and the safety valve. I then soldered the pony truck sides and overlay and put the pony wheels on. Then is was turn to solder the steam dome and safety valves in place and test fit the boiler, this is where I currently at right now. the next step is to install the gearbox and motor which I should have done possibly before the frames were soldered but I'll work something out!!! Thanks for looking and your comments are appreciated. Regards George Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 This looks to be a really nice kit. Do keep us in touch with how it develops Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 SSM kits are quite enjoyable. I really should get back to mine, but have been distracted of late....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeconna Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Just did a small bit tonight and that was to solder the boiler bands on and the coupling hook surrounds, The boiler was soldered in place as well. Thanks for looking George Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirley Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Fantastic work as usual George and I see you had to do quite a bit of adapting to do to get things right. While I continue to hold onto an ambition to make full brass kit the amount skill displayed by you to get parts accurately soldered is still beyond me. Looking forward to seeing the completion of this lovely model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I can't really see too much in the way of adaptation there Kirely. It looks a decent kit. Etching holes slightly undersize, for example, is normal (it accommodates the variation inherent in the etching process and it's much easier to take material away than to add it). What this build does show is how strange Irish prototypes look on OO track to my eyes - understandable though the compromise is - the additional overhang (relative to English, Welsh or Scottish standard gauge prototypes) makes to models look like narrow gauge machines. This is also presumably the reason for having to cut the footplate away; my understanding is that SSM kits are designed with building to scale 21mm gauge in mind. The frame extensions above the footplate in front of the smokebox demonstrate this very neatly. Nice build of an attractive prototype. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 ....; my understanding is that SSM kits are designed with building to scale 21mm gauge in mind. ... There are allowances for 21mm gauge, yes, but you may end up making your own spacers for the correct gauge, as I have had to. Exactoscale (in the Bernard Weller era) used to produce simple flat, U and L-shaped spacers of 15.5mm width You can get away with 16mm spacers, to give an overall width over frames of 17 to 17.5mm and still have adequate clearance. Average driving and carrying axle lengths for 21mm gauge seem to come out around 28 to 28.8mm. 28mm long pinpoint axles are already available from Ultrascale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted January 9, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2013 Super looking loco George, dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzgresleyfan Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Very nice beast! The wheel arrangement is what struck me the most, was it common for Irish tanks? How's the Titanic (I think) going by the way?! Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Very nice beast! The wheel arrangement is what struck me the most, was it common for Irish tanks? The 4-6-0T wasn't that widespread, and only the Bandon tanks readily spring to mind. There were some, I think, built for the narrow-gauge Londonderry & Lough Swilly, but that was about all. If you want to have a go at building SSM kits, their website is here. Some very useful parts also if you are modelling the second half of the 20th century on Irish Rail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeconna Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 You get the Correct spacers and wheel axles lads for the correct 21MM but time does not allow me that luxury just yet!!. There are a few niggles in the kit but nothing to untoward, SSM have put lots of time and thought to getting this kit out to market!! Oh the Titanic is still on the go, Must do another bit soon!! G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 George, if that is Powerflow (or similar) plumbers flux you are using, I'd recommend getting rid of it and using a waterbased phosphoric flux instead. It's much easier to prevent corrosion (verdigris) forming on the model by washing in water after a soldering session and therefore needs much less cleaning up with a glass fibre brush. Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 How's the Titanic (I think) going by the way?! Souvenir Belfast T-shirt. The front reads: "TITANIC. Built in Belfast." On the rear is the following: "She was alright when she left here." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeconna Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 George, if that is Powerflow (or similar) plumbers flux you are using, I'd recommend getting rid of it and using a waterbased phosphoric flux instead. It's much easier to prevent corrosion (verdigris) forming on the model by washing in water after a soldering session and therefore needs much less cleaning up with a glass fibre brush. Jol Jol, Your Spot on it is plumbers flux, I've used it for a good while but now but will take on board your suggestion of waterbased flux. Any idea of where the best place is to order it from as there is not hope getting it where I live. cheers George Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Powerflow dissolves completely in boiling water. Just don't listen to to those who tell you different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John M Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Hi George Its good to see an Irish loco in the Kitbuilding section. C&L Finsecale supply suitable fluxes and solders http://www.finescale.org.uk/. I tend to avoid Phosphoric Acid flux these days and use an organic flux such as Carrs Red Label which cleans up easier and the fumes are less of an irritant. Alternatively if you want to brew your own it should be possible to obtain the ingredients from the chemist or motor factor (isopropyl,distilled water, and phosphoric acid (rustproofer). A 10-15% acid solution is normally recommended, the alccohol is a wetting agent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Powerflow dissolves completely in boiling water. Just don't listen to to those who tell you different. Bill, I prefer to not boil my models. I have found that putting a kit assembled with phosphoric acid flux into the sink when I wash my hands after a working session does the trick. At least one professsional painter (and builder) won't take on commissions for models that have been assembled using Powerflow having experienced long term corrossion causing paint adhesion problems. George, Eileen's Emporium list it for mail order. https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=124&Itemid=9 Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaf2u Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Hey Georgeconna, Looking forward to seeing how this one turns out - I have to admit that despite perusing these pages for a number of years yours is the first reference I have seen to Studio Scale Models, and I am very tempted, having spent all previous years building LMS kits from various suppliers. Living just a few miles from the Bandon Rd Viaduct makes it all the more poignant! Two pictures of this late 19th Century engineering feat for those of you that don't know it! It took the Bandon line from the streets of Cork City Centre to the south of the county. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeconna Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 Hey Georgeconna, Looking forward to seeing how this one turns out - I have to admit that despite perusing these pages for a number of years yours is the first reference I have seen to Studio Scale Models, and I am very tempted, having spent all previous years building LMS kits from various suppliers. Living just a few miles from the Bandon Rd Viaduct makes it all the more poignant! Two pictures of this late 19th Century engineering feat for those of you that don't know it! It took the Bandon line from the streets of Cork City Centre to the south of the county. Viaduct.jpg Viaduct 3.jpg Thanks for the post, Pop into Marks Models in Olivier Plunkett Street, Cork City for a chat sometime as I work there at present. I had the loco on display there as there were a few folks that wanted to see it in the flesh. I will have it back in the shop again once I get the motor in, paint on and decals on!! Nice shots BTW. Cheers George Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 George, if that is Powerflow (or similar) plumbers flux you are using, I'd recommend getting rid of it and using a waterbased phosphoric flux instead. It's much easier to prevent corrosion (verdigris) forming on the model by washing in water after a soldering session and therefore needs much less cleaning up with a glass fibre brush. Jol Once again we are hearing that Powerflow is no good because it does not work like the "traditional" materials but the difference can best be summed up as being similar to the difference between D C and D C C in control systems. Both work but are in need of totally different handling in operation and installation. There is no traditional acid content in Powerflow and chemically it works in a different way so we need to aproach it from a new perspective. If you look at the side of the yellow can there is the statement that it can be cleaned up with a damp cloth, but I agree this may leave a film or residue on the work; perhaps this is acceptable on plumbing work; but not if you wish to end up with a painted finish acceptable to modellers. Alternatively look on the packaging on the Carrs Easy Clean Solder Paste and you will see that it is recommended that you clean up with I P A (isopropyl Alcohol), the base for this product is in fact a form of Powerflow and forms both the carrier medium in which the powdered solder is suspended and also the flux content. I personally use only Powerflow and have used it on all temperature and type ranges of solder including 70 degree low melt on white metal to brass joints without the need to tin the brass first. The secret is to clean up by disolving the residue, after making the joint, with some I P A which is applied normally with a cotton bud or small rag then just wipe the resulting mess off with a piece of kitchen towel. There is no need to use any neutraliser or dish cleaner or risk your skin with hot water or abrasive brushes just simply disolve and wipe off. Having said that I personally give the work piece a swim in the ultrasonic bath to encourage any stubborn hidden solids to give themeselves up, but I believe this is becoming more the norm before priming during the paint process anyway. This shows the atachment of sole bars to a coach underframe I was working on some time ago, the right hand chanel had been cleaned and desoldered before the left hand chanel was attached. If you look closely you can still see the residue from the soldering visible on this side at the bottom of the picture prior to cleaning. This shows the same underframe some fourteen days later while I was fitting the running gear (the coach in question is a Donegal 6 wheel Cleminson in 7mm) note there is no sign of discoluration or contamination other than the natural patina the brass takes on over time. I hope the foregoing will help to convince you that the Powerflow Flux is perfectly acceptable for our use and may persuade some to try it. it also has the added advantage that not only can you not knock the bottle over and spill it but also will not corrode steel bits such as wheels and axles. George, My apologies for taking over your topic for this little rant, and just so I can draw a mental picture of the location of your shop, where is it in O. P. St. in relation to the only landmark I know there namely the Hi Bar? Wally Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 O just so I can draw a mental picture of the location of your shop, where is it in O. P. St. in relation to the only landmark I know there namely the Hi Bar? This map any good? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Wally, Powerflow is a very effective flux and therein lies it's drawback for modelling. Unless all residues are thoroughly removed, it is more likely to give long term problems with continued reaction. As I pointed out, several professional builders and painters that I know will not use it nor take on a commission to paint a model where it has been used. Why?, because they don't want complaints months/years down the line where their paint job "has not adhered properly". Bill B advocated boiling the model to remove any residue. You use IPA and an ultrasonic cleaner before final painting. Not everyone wants to take Bill's approach or has access to a suitable cleaner. I've tried Powerflow (and most of the other available) modelling fluxes over the years, but still find a phosphric acid liquid flux easier to apply and clean up afterwards. But then it's each unto his own. Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeconna Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 Cheers lads for the input, interesting to hear the voice on both sides of the powerflux. I can't boil the model either as the low melt solder will basically melt again and a few bits will fall off!! I might give the IPA a go if I can get some locally. The shop is down the bus station end of O. plunkett st., If your around do pop by. The Hi-b is certainly a good landmark though!!!! cheers George Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 You don't need to to boil your model. The carrier for the active ingredients is soap, so hand hot water will dissolve it, though it will take longer than pouring boiling water out of a kettle over your model -- which is what I do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandbridgejct Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Lovely model, George, and interesting to see how it goes together, as I hope to start on an SSM tank when I try my first loco. Horsetan's post: Souvenir Belfast T-shirt. The front reads: "TITANIC. Built in Belfast." On the rear is the following: "She was alright when she left here." Reminds me of the song about the man who stabbed his wife, then, in a fit of remorse, hanged himself using a bed sheet. The end of the story was that she recovered but he died: "For the lousy blade was Carlow made But the sheet was Belfast linen." (I can't comment on fluxes.) Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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