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The Shed - alterations to an 0 gauge micro layout

micro BR(W) 0 Gauge




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#1 rcf

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 14:05

Hi Everyone

 

Those of you who have followed my topic Osney will have seen pictures of The Shed at the start of that thread, and now that work has almost finished on that project they will also have seen my reference to having another look at TS.

 

To recap TS is a small 0 gauge layout measuring 6 feet by 16 inches overall with the scenic section being 5 feet. It portrays a small single road steam engine shed in the late fifties set in the western region of BR. It has a slightly larger allocation of locos than would normally be expected in a shed of this size. This is due to the fact that it is located on a junction of two secondary lines an also provides locos for a number of branch lines in the area.

 

Below are some recent pictures which managed to catch a couple of panniers in between duties on the Osney branch.

 

The Shed 001.jpg

 

The Shed 003.jpg

 

The Shed 004.jpg

 

The Shed 005.jpg

 

The Shed 002.jpg

 

The reason I am returning to TS is that since it was completed I  have been acutely aware that there is a glaring problem with the layout which I have been reluctant to put right until now. The layout has been referred to as a tuning fork and what people are not aware is that one prong doesn't have any power. Any loco on the coal stage siding is merely posed for effect!

 

When I was building the layout I layed the track, wired it and thoroughly tested it and everything worked. I then carried on with all the scenic work and my mistake was not testing the track again before almost completing the scenic work. When I did I had immediate shorting problems on the point and despite all attempts to resolve the problem I could only get the main shed road to work consistently. Research quickly showed that this was a common problem with DCC and that I should have rewired the point before putting it down. The next photo illustrates my problem,

 

The Shed 006.jpg

 

You will see that the point is in an extremely tight location and even to try and rewire it in situ would be difficult, let alone taking it up and rewiring it properly. As I couldn't face doing anything, having so recently finished the scenic work I decided to cut my losses and operate with just the one siding. However when you know something is wrong it niggles away at you until you decide to do something about the problem, which is the point at which I am now.

 

I have been greatly inspired by the layout Abercynon (Fach), elsewhere on this forum, which is a beautifully modelled shed layout with great atmosphere, but which is entirely pointless. So I have decided to look at the possibility of taking up the point on TS and substituting a short sector plate. Whichever route I go down I am faced with removing much of the scenic work. I am hoping to do as little damage as possible so that at the end of the day you won't notice the 'join'.

 

Thats the plan which I will approach step by slow step and I thought I would share the progress with you all. I must be mad!

 

Regards Rob


Edited by rcf, 12 April 2013 - 19:35 .

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#2 steve fay

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 15:57

Lovely modelling. Can't beat a pair of panniers
Who's kit is the water crane ?

Edited by steve fay, 24 March 2013 - 15:59 .


#3 rcf

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 16:50

Lovely modelling. Can't beat a pair of panniers
Who's kit is the water crane ?

Thanks Steve, I often think there should be a collective name for a lot of panniers, perhaps a 'pride of panniers' or something, although it has been suggested that I think too much!!

 

The water crane is an old Mike's Models kit but the heater is Scale Link.

 

Rob


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#4 landscapes

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 19:40

Hi

Just found your thread, fantastic detailing from a big LNER fan who lives in Swindon.

Regards

David

Edited by landscapes, 24 March 2013 - 19:41 .

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#5 steve fay

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:23

Thanks I will track down a few for my Canton project.
Pride of panniers. Yes I would go with that, Any grouping of GW locos would be a pride in my book.
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#6 rcf

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 15:49

Oooops!

 

The Shed.jpg

 

I decided there was no point thinking about it any longer. I had measured as much as I could with everything in place, so as I was feeling in a particularly bad mood today I thought I would take it out on the layout, but carefully! The buildings have come up with only minimal damage and although ballasting track can be tedious, try removing old ballast. Now I can at least get at the area I want to work on and see how the changed track layout will work. Will report on progress in due course.

 

Rob


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#7 rob D2

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 16:40

lovely scenics.
I'm sure you'll feel better when it's all working.

#8 CourthsVeil

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:12

Though you suffer NOW, I think it's quite the right decision. I can only underline what rob D2 said.

Waiting for your progress reports!

 Armin


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#9 rcf

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:30

lovely scenics.
I'm sure you'll feel better when it's all working.

 

 

 

Though you suffer NOW, I think it's quite the right decision. I can only underline what rob D2 said.

Waiting for your progress reports!

 Armin

Thanks for the encouragement. Once I had made the first cut, so to speak, I got quite excited at the thought of getting things the way it should be. I intend to take things slowly to make sure I get it right this time.

Thanks again for the comments.

 

Rob



#10 SHMD

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:40

So which supermarket has bought the land?

 

 

Kev.

(getting me coat on..)


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#11 Giles

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:37

Lovely to see this layout!

So often, these jobs aren't as bad in reality as the anticipation makes them out to be..... It'll be very worthwhile!

More stunning modelling here.
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#12 steve fay

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 17:11

I know what you mean about Peco points. On the last layout my dad did I tested all th track and it was fine, As soon as it was ballasted then all the issues started. I had to wire extra pickups and an on off switch to power the point for one particular direction. Funny thing was on the other point I had to wire the additional point on the opposite side. It all worked you just had to remember to flick the switch when you changed the point.
You would think Peco might alter the wiring on there points if there prone to problems.
Are you going to replace the point with a hand built one?

#13 rcf

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:59

I know what you mean about Peco points. On the last layout my dad did I tested all th track and it was fine, As soon as it was ballasted then all the issues started. I had to wire extra pickups and an on off switch to power the point for one particular direction. Funny thing was on the other point I had to wire the additional point on the opposite side. It all worked you just had to remember to flick the switch when you changed the point.
You would think Peco might alter the wiring on there points if there prone to problems.
Are you going to replace the point with a hand built one?

Hi Steve

 

Interesting that you had exactly the same problem as I did. Peco say there is no problem but they do provide instructions on how to re-wire.

 

You will gather that my main interest is in the scenics as I try and create a picture of steam as I remember it, sadly I am that old,and I am happy to use peco track and rtr stock as part of that picture when suitably painted and weathered. So if the point is replaced it will be peco and suitably wired, indeed on the assumption that the point would be damaged when lifted I aquired a replacement some time ago for the day when I decided to resolve the problem.

 

However, seeing Abercynon on this forum gave me the impetus to do something about the issue as I realised there was an alternative in line with my philosophy of keeping everything simple and that is to take the two sidings to the FY and provide a sector plate to link them. Operationally it will provide the same solution and will not cause me any concern over reliability, especially if TS ever gets invited to a show again! So at the moment that is the plan.

 

Incidentally I am following the build of your own new layout with interest.

 

Regards Rob


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#14 rcf

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 11:39

Well, I am a bit further forward. I have had to cut back some more of the ground cover and am definitely going to lose the small lean to shed on the rear retaining wall, but it looks as though the sector plate idea may work. I have also had to increase the size of the opening in the sky but only slightly.

 

The Shed 007.jpg

 

The sector plate is in position and the two tracks are loosely positioned. Now I need to wire up the track, one of my least favourite jobs, and then get it fixed down. With that done I can get on with the scenic work and hopefully restore it all to where it was before the wrecking ball moved in!

 

Cheers Rob

 

 


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#15 georgeT

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 11:54

What a cracking micro layout very atmospheric, inspirational, great stuff

 

George..


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#16 Warspite

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 18:01

Rob

 

Clearly the right decision in the end. I've just discovered a similar problem with one of my well-ballasted points and will need to 'remove and re-lay'. Luckily, mine is in not such a cramped position.

 

Stephen

 

 



#17 rcf

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 18:17

Rob

 

Clearly the right decision in the end. I've just discovered a similar problem with one of my well-ballasted points and will need to 'remove and re-lay'. Luckily, mine is in not such a cramped position.

 

Stephen

This does seem to be a real problem as I noticed someone else on a different forum had had the same thing happen. I know I was extremely careful when I painted and ballasted the point but still failed to prevent it happening.

 

What a cracking micro layout very atmospheric, inspirational, great stuff

 

George..

Thanks George, glad you like it.

 

 

Rob



#18 marc smith

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:57

Hi Rob,

Firstly, I'd just like to say I'm glad TS has its' own thread
I thought it was superb from the very first couple of pics I saw of it......

Secondly, I was just wondering exactly what the wiring problem with Peco points is?
I used one on a previous layout, and had no problems - appart from needing to thoroughly clean the sides of
the switch rails, after ballasting and spraying.....

Is it that you need to re-wire the ties to the stock rails?

Thirdly, Having seen Abercynon Fach in the flesh -
It's a real cracker! Brian hinted at wanting to build this layout for some time
I too thought about a "pointless" layout - but put that idea out of my mind....
... I know it's an odd thing, but I do think points can add to the scene
however, after seeing AF, I have since changed my mind, and scribbled a few more plans!

I'm pleased you have started work on re-laying your track though.....
and I don't think TS will lose any of its' atmosphere or interest
I'm sure you will re-model it into a super micro anyway :)

Let me know your thoughts on the re-wiring

Cheers again
Marc


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#19 rcf

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 15:16

Hi Rob,

Firstly, I'd just like to say I'm glad TS has its' own thread
I thought it was superb from the very first couple of pics I saw of it......

Secondly, I was just wondering exactly what the wiring problem with Peco points is?
I used one on a previous layout, and had no problems - appart from needing to thoroughly clean the sides of
the switch rails, after ballasting and spraying.....

Is it that you need to re-wire the ties to the stock rails?

Thirdly, Having seen Abercynon Fach in the flesh -
It's a real cracker! Brian hinted at wanting to build this layout for some time
I too thought about a "pointless" layout - but put that idea out of my mind....
... I know it's an odd thing, but I do think points can add to the scene
however, after seeing AF, I have since changed my mind, and scribbled a few more plans!

I'm pleased you have started work on re-laying your track though.....
and I don't think TS will lose any of its' atmosphere or interest
I'm sure you will re-model it into a super micro anyway :)

Let me know your thoughts on the re-wiring

Cheers again
Marc

Good to hear from you Marc. Taking your last comment about my building 'it into a super micro' first, no pressure there then!

 

I really don't know what the issue is on the points, but others have obviously had similar problems. I was very careful when initially painting and ballasting but it still caused shorting on my NCE Powercab as soon as the loco hit the toe of the point. I tried extra cleaning but nothing helped.

 

The solution according to peco is to connect the switch blades to the stock rails and cut the wiring under the frog and that, for me, would have meant lifting the point. This means you have to use a switch to change the polarity on the frog. You also need to insure the point is isolated from the track. I will never know whether this would have worked as I am now going down a different route, but next time...

 

I tend to agree that points do add something to the layout and it is strange to consider building a layout without any, certainly something I would not have considered a few years ago. However the  idea of building without, does appeal to my idea of simplicity and it definitely works with Abercynon. As I get older 'simple' becomes ever more attractive!

 

Cheers Rob



#20 CME and Bottlewasher

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:07

Good to hear from you Marc. Taking your last comment about my building 'it into a super micro' first, no pressure there then!

 

I really don't know what the issue is on the points, but others have obviously had similar problems. I was very careful when initially painting and ballasting but it still caused shorting on my NCE Powercab as soon as the loco hit the toe of the point. I tried extra cleaning but nothing helped.

 

The solution according to peco is to connect the switch blades to the stock rails and cut the wiring under the frog and that, for me, would have meant lifting the point. This means you have to use a switch to change the polarity on the frog. You also need to insure the point is isolated from the track. I will never know whether this would have worked as I am now going down a different route, but next time...

 

I tend to agree that points do add something to the layout and it is strange to consider building a layout without any, certainly something I would not have considered a few years ago. However the  idea of building without, does appeal to my idea of simplicity and it definitely works with Abercynon. As I get older 'simple' becomes ever more attractive!

 

Cheers Rob

 

Hi Fellas,

 

Although many get away without modding pointwork for DCC, any points (switches) that rely on the switch blades for connectivety, is taking a risk..

 

In addition, as I have Posted before, Peco points are not always perfect from the factory - even the 7mm FS versions - and some need fettling.

 

I am sorry to here that you have had problems Rob, I am sure that it will all come good for you though.

 

Kind regards,

 

CME


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#21 marc smith

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 13:02

Good to hear from you Marc. Taking your last comment about my building 'it into a super micro' first, no pressure there then.....
 

I tend to agree that points do add something to the layout and it is strange to consider building a layout without any, certainly something I would not have considered a few years ago. However the  idea of building without, does appeal to my idea of simplicity and it definitely works with Abercynon. As I get older 'simple' becomes ever more attractive!

 

Cheers Rob


Rob, I didn't intend to add any pressure sir
I was merely commenting on the super quality of your recent modelling :)
I'm sure it will look good once it is finished

Having drawn up several "pointless" plans, and seen a growing number of point-free layouts,
I must say, I am tempted to build one
So I'll keep a keen eye on your progress here......
Still no pressure Rob - honest ;)

 

On the topic of pointless model railway layouts
I just wondered whether you had seen this design by Phil Parker
"Lesspoint" is a nice little take on the concept
http://www.flickr.co...N00/4410927743/
 

Cheers again guys
 



#22 rcf

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 14:21

Marc, many thanks for that link. Especially interesting as I have considered something very similar based on Uxbridge Vine Street. Its still on my list of possible layouts.

 

Cheers Rob


Rob, I didn't intend to add any pressure sir
I was merely commenting on the super quality of your recent modelling :)
I'm sure it will look good once it is finished

Having drawn up several "pointless" plans, and seen a growing number of point-free layouts,
I must say, I am tempted to build one
So I'll keep a keen eye on your progress here......
Still no pressure Rob - honest ;)

 

On the topic of pointless model railway layouts
I just wondered whether you had seen this design by Phil Parker
"Lesspoint" is a nice little take on the concept
http://www.flickr.co...N00/4410927743/
 

Cheers again guys
 



#23 marc smith

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:23

Rob, I had a "Eureka moment" yesterday evening!
Doesn't happen very often, I can assure you....

It's too late for you, as you have ripped the point up, I'm afraid
but if you need to isolate the frog on a Peco point which has been laid

I think you could identify which sleeper has the tie on each side,

and simply cut a section of it out, using a cut-off disc

This could easily be filled back in, with a sleeper offcut or plasticard
Just in case anyone reading this wants to to the mod to a point in-situ....

BTW. I saw a neat little trick on an O gauge layout at the Bristol O gauge show last year
One chap had saved space on his layout, using an unusual method;
 

Emerging from from under a bridge at the entrance of the layout is apparently 2 tracks....
however, all you see is the vee end of the point
and that's all it is! The sector plate pivots just behind the vee

 

A donwside of this is that the sector plate needs a wide "swing"
and you can only have 1 road on the sector....
but it is a neat trick for small layouts, as you effectively have a point, but in about a third of the space :)

 

Appols for putting my ideas and Eureka moments on your thread Rob ;)

Marc


Edited by marc smith, 04 April 2013 - 08:24 .


#24 rcf

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:08

Rob, I had a "Eureka moment" yesterday evening!
Doesn't happen very often, I can assure you....

It's too late for you, as you have ripped the point up, I'm afraid
but if you need to isolate the frog on a Peco point which has been laid

I think you could identify which sleeper has the tie on each side,

and simply cut a section of it out, using a cut-off disc

This could easily be filled back in, with a sleeper offcut or plasticard
Just in case anyone reading this wants to to the mod to a point in-situ....

BTW. I saw a neat little trick on an O gauge layout at the Bristol O gauge show last year
One chap had saved space on his layout, using an unusual method;
 

Emerging from from under a bridge at the entrance of the layout is apparently 2 tracks....
however, all you see is the vee end of the point
and that's all it is! The sector plate pivots just behind the vee

 

A donwside of this is that the sector plate needs a wide "swing"
and you can only have 1 road on the sector....
but it is a neat trick for small layouts, as you effectively have a point, but in about a third of the space :)

 

Appols for putting my ideas and Eureka moments on your thread Rob ;)

Marc

Marc, eureka moments are rare and should have the widest audience. When I was screaming in frustration with my point I thought there was probably  a way of cutting the wiring on the frog but decided that if I got it wrong I would end up cutting something else!

 

The idea with the sector plate sounds good, and I did think along similar lines myself, before opting for the present solution.

 

Rob



#25 marc smith

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:52

Rob, I pondered the sector plate, using a vee which I obtained cheaply....
It was half a Peco diamond crossing - I got it for a pound

and I really must get around to trying it out in the fashion I mentioned....

One day - when I have more time ;)

Your present solution looks fine
Don't forget to post piccies of your progress

Marc














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