They do look nice with an open cab, but was there a frame length extension when the Collett bunkers were fitted?? (If so, the kit is probably for the latter.)

I vote for an open cab too.

Lovely job. I would choose 1907 any time because of the bunker and period, but then I am old school :-)

Thanks Mikkel

I am really undecided about this I do like open cabs.

They do look nice with an open cab, but was there a frame length extension when the Collett bunkers were fitted?? (If so, the kit is probably for the latter.)

I have been checking photos again, I just cannot find any signs of the rear being lengthened. The ones where it is possible I have counted the rivets behind the steps, all are the same. I would of guessed the steps stayed in the same place, or the cab gets bigger and the bunker remains the same. I am quite confident to say that the frames were unaltered. The kit has no variations on length, and contains all the parts to do the variations.

I vote for an open cab too.

Thanks I am tending to lean that way too, But then it still leaves a choice of three bunkers, and, and and........

The RCTS volume states that enlarged bunkers were fitted from 1924, but does not mention anything about frames being extended...

See pE45, first para under "Details--Saddle Tanks":

Records also show that the frames of some were lengthened at the back by 6in. or 9in. but it is not clear to what extent this became general practice...

All the drawings in Russell show a 6'3" overhang from rear axle to buffer beam, but this is the extended form. Several photos show the older short form, but most are extended. The two clearest examples are the works grey photos of 1941 as a saddle tank in 1896 (figure 298) and 1923 as a pannier in 1924 (figure 317). The differences in the length of bunker and shape behind the steps is very clear. 1923 also has an extra vertical row of rivets that probably indicate the original length. These can be seen on many other examples.

The difference is not confined to pannier conversions as figure 310 shows 1961 with extended frames whilst still carrying a saddle tank. On the other hand, the great survivor 2007 seems to have retained the short frames to the end.

Nick

ps. the extensions appear to have started well before the fitting of Collett bunkers. Photo E84 in the RCTS volume shows 2012 when converted to pannier tanks in 1910 with the extension.

The RCTS volume states that enlarged bunkers were fitted from 1924, but does not mention anything about frames being extended.

 

Strangely it doesn't include No. 1912 in the list of those that got closed cabs. (The RCTS survey was published in 1958, but it says that only no. 2012 was left in service at that time, so your photo can't be after that.)

Thanks Mikkel

Reading below I understand why I saw no difference in the lengths of frames I have only been looking at pannier versions.

 

See pE45, first para under "Details--Saddle Tanks":

 

All the drawings in Russell show a 6'3" overhang from rear axle to buffer beam, but this is the extended form. Several photos show the older short form, but most are extended. The two clearest examples are the works grey photos of 1941 as a saddle tank in 1896 (figure 298) and 1923 as a pannier in 1924 (figure 317). The differences in the length of bunker and shape behind the steps is very clear. 1923 also has an extra vertical row of rivets that probably indicate the original length. These can be seen on many other examples.

 

The difference is not confined to pannier conversions as figure 310 shows 1961 with extended frames whilst still carrying a saddle tank. On the other hand, the great survivor 2007 seems to have retained the short frames to the end.

 

Nick

 

ps. the extensions appear to have started well before the fitting of Collett bunkers. Photo E84 in the RCTS volume shows 2012 when converted to pannier tanks in 1910 with the extension.

Nick

Thanks for the wealth of information. I was not looking saddle versions as the kit will only do panniers. I have a picture of 2007 with saddle that looks to have short frames as there is not such a large flat behind the steps, but it has a collett bunker.

I am pleased I am doing the pannier one, the saddles look to be even more of a minefield.

...I am pleased I am doing the pannier one, the saddles look to be even more of a minefield.

I think they probably are! I'm doing one of each in 4mm, the pannier an early conversion around 1910 and the saddle in c1900 condition. I'll have to get the saw out for the latter...

Nick

ps. If you ever need to do a saddle, there's an excellent John Copsey article on them with many photos in GWRJ 25.