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The Four Ages of Warships – Bachmann Types


Silver Sidelines

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The arrival of Bachmann’s new Class 43 Warship Pegasus has encouraged me to revisit my fleet of Bachmann Warships. I have counted four distinct variants of the Bachmann Warship: the early 'low' version, the corrected version, the lighted version and now the latest Class 43. I don't count Kader’s early Mainline models as being Bachmann, although they have a place in this narrative.

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Four ages of Bachmann Warship, left to right, Onslaught, Glory, Zenith and Pegasus

 

First some history, Kader Industries introduced their first Warship under the Mainline label I think in the late 1970s. I certainly bought a couple in the early 1980s, now long since sold at auction. The Mainline models had a good shape and came with directional lighting. When Kader rebranded their UK models under the Bachmann label the body shell from the Mainline Warship was reused (with different fixings) right up until the introduction of the Bachmann Class 43 in 2015. The Mainline chassis had a ‘plastic’ mechanism and to counter the lack of weight rubber tyres were fitted to the wheels on the motor bogie. The plastic drive gears had a habit of cracking where they had been force fitted to the axles. Ultrascale still sell nice brass replacement gears. With brass gears and some additional weight the model was nearly very good as can be seen at the end of

.

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Mainline Warship chassis

 

Bachmann reintroduced the Warship I would guess during the mid 1990s with a much improved chassis and motor, not forgetting the sprung buffers. It would be 2008 before directional lighting reappeared. Among the first Bachmann branded models were Foxhound, Onslaught and Eclipse (32-050, 051 and 052 respectively). The first production runs of these models were deemed to be too low. That is the body and buffers were some 1 to 2mm lower than they should have been. This is evident in the view below comparing the latest Bachmann model of Pegasus with Onslaught (as bought new).

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Bachmann Pegasus (left) Onslaught (right) as bought

 

A contemporary fix by Keith Norgrove shows how to grind away part of the chassis and insert some plastic spacers to correct the error.

For their part Bachmann corrected the error in subsequent models such as Glory (32-059) by raising the height of the pivot point on the Bogie Towers. I don’t know how quickly these modified towers were introduced or whether any were fitted to later batches of the first models. Both Foxhound and Onslaught arrived on my layout too low. However I have a model of Eclipse (bought second hand) which was advertised and looks unused, which arrived with the correct height towers. Perhaps it was only the very first production batches that had the error and subsequent models were issued with corrected towers?

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Bachmann Class 42 Towers - original right, later models left

 

Rather than grind away bits of chassis and manufacture plastic spacers I opted to source a couple of replacement towers for Onslaught.

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Bachmann Pegasus (left) Onslaught (right) with new bogie towers.

 

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Bachmann Class 42 Onslaught, ride height corrected with replacement towers

 

When first introduced the Bachmann Warships were admired for their smooth running and super haulage capacity. They had a heavy metal chassis fitted with a big ‘can’ motor and they made a reassuring clunking noise as the heavy mechanism crossed rail joints.

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Bachmann Class 42 Chassis (Foxhound/Eclipse/Onslaught/Glory)

 

Around 2008 Bachmann upgraded the Class 42 Warship. The earlier model was reworked to include cab/indicator lights and a socket was provided to aid the installation of a Digital Chip.

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Bachmann Class 42 Zenith

 

The original and the reworked models share the same body shell. However if you compare the spacing of the top cab steps on ‘Zenith’ with the earlier picture here of ‘Onslaught’ it seems to me that the ride height of the reworked model is too high. I suspect that this is because of the spring contacts and circuit boards introduced as part of the lighting set up is preventing the body shell sitting tight on the underframe.

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Bachmann Class 42 Chassis (Hermes/Zenith/Magpie)

 

The original and reworked models shared the same design of bogie / tower. However that is where the similarity ended. As shown below there were significant detail differences in the way that the towers were attached.

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Clip on Bogie Fixing Bachmann Class 42 (Eclipse/Onslaught/Glory)

 

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Screw on Bogie Fixing Bachmann Class 42 (Hermes/Zenith/Magpie)

 

Superficially the ‘can’ motors were the same. However there are detail differences between the two motors, notably at the opposite end to the brushes, such that when swapping motors between models it is necessary to also swap the black plastic motor cradle. From my own experience I would say that the motors on some of the reworked models were inferior in performance to those in the original models. I have had to replace two motors that I would say ran slow and overheated.

 

The overheating issue is interesting and has filled in many happy hours. The picture shown here above comparing the original (low) bogie tower with the modified bogie tower has differences in the shape of the axle holes. The original towers had an axle hole / bearing shaped to match the axle. Running was generally excellent. The modified bogie simply has machined slots for the axles. If these machined slots were made too deep the drive axle is no longer carried by the metal bogie side frames and instead the whole weight of the engine is carried by the nylon gearing. My observations suggest that carrying the weight on the gears increases the friction in the gearing leading to slow running and overheating, not to mention ‘wobbly’ running. (I do believe that Heljan ‘Lion’ has the same problem.) I did make a couple of spacers / bearings to clip to the metal side frames and pack the space between above the axle but it just seemed to slow the motor even more so it was abandoned.

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Axle spacers/bearings

 

I am not sure if there is a ‘fix’ and I resorted to swapping gears and wheel sets to obtain the optimum solution, coupled with many hours of ours of ‘running in’ using the ‘Loco Tester’. ‘Zenith’, bought second hand ran perfectly. ‘Hermes’, bought brand new was a problem, eventually only solved by fitting replacement towers and a different motor.

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Bachmann Class 42 Hermes

 

Because Bachmann’s Class 42 Warships have been around for some time I suspect the arrival of the Bachmann model of the Class 43 has not been given the prominence that other new releases have received. A pity I think, as it is a superb model which could teach a few other manufacturers a trick or two. Mine runs ever so quietly and is also rock steady. There are numerous clever touches, for example the casting of the engine/transmission visible through the side windows and the ‘yellow’ tint to the running lights.

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Bachmann Class 43 Pegasus

 

I have added a view of the chassis. This too has been re-engineered and is a work of art in itself. I have not investigated further but I can see very little that would be interchangeable with previous models. The space for scale cab interiors and a sound speaker does come at a price and the Class 43 weighs 70gm less than the Class 42. Time will tell as to whether this is important or whether it will be an excuse for double heading.

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Bachmann Class 43 Chassis

 

The only question remaining is, "When will Bachmann introduce a new Class 42 based on the tooling for the Class 43?"

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1 hour ago, Silver Sidelines said:

An update!  Some pictues comparing a very early Bachmann Class 42 and a much later (2015) Class 43.  I think that how you feel about them all depends on the viewing distance. 

 

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First D816 Eclipse a Bachmann Class 42 from the past.

 

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Second D841 Roebuck Class 43 from 2015

 

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Lastly a comparison showing the two roof details.


NBL wins hands down on roof detail…. But the 1990s Swindon version with the centre can motor was and still is a great model …. A better runner than the NBL which in my experience needs either wiper pick ups or a DCC stay alive to run well … and it takes off like a scalded cat on DC! 

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2 hours ago, Silver Sidelines said:

Yes Mazac rot!  D800 Sir Brian is one of the models that suffers.  Some time ago I bought a model of Sir Brian which was advertised as having been repaired by Bachmann.  Sadly the seller didn't pack the parcel very well and on arrival one of the bogie towers was damaged.  I had another Sir Brian on hand with an apparently complete bogie tower which I would fit.  Move on to the begining of this year when I thought it was time to bring Sir Brian out of storage.  Sadly it kept turning left at various points and crossovers.  On inspection it was apparent that the bogie casting had warped and on dismantling it was even more obvious that the pins holding the two parts of the tower together had disintegrated.  Interestingly Bachmann are still selling replacement bogies and a search of the Internet will show other suppliers.  I have a soft spot for Sir Brian but he still needs some proper etched plates.  Not long ago I did buy a set off eBay but it was immediately obvious that they were the wrong dimensions.  They didn't cover the Bachmann printed plates and the spacing of the lettering didn't match pictures of the prototype.

 

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D800 Sir Brian Robertson - Bachmann 32-055

 

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Warped - turn left!!

 

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Spot the broken ins and the crazed casting.

 

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D800 Sir Brian Robertson back in service

 

I see what you mean about the crazing - not what you what to see. The gear tower castings on mine seem to be OK. However the model came without wheelsets or bogie frame at one end so the intention is to arrange drive to one end with Mainline wheelsets at the other (actually I've swapped the insulated wheels over so the driven end has traction tyres). The supplied bogie frame was damaged but Ekmexhibitions have these for a quid each (plus I need some equally cheap Class 37 frames too, order going in this week). Main problem is that only the middle bit of the main casting remains, thankfully it seems sound but the fun part will be building new bogie pivots cantilevered off this out of plasticard - designed in my head, manufacturing commenced and I have a cunning plan involving some Tri-ang Hornby parts........

 

General note to all with Mainline and Bachmann Class 42s - if the boiler compartment vent above the nameplate is not on the same side as the central fuel filler opening on the underframe you have the body on the wrong way round 😉!

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Just finished cab mods on my third Class 42 and to me look a lot better, it takes about one hour per loco and the cost is nothing, also done seats from scrap coach interior.

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14 hours ago, D 844 said:

Just finished cab mods on my third Class 42 and to me look a lot better, it takes about one hour per loco and the cost is nothing, also done seats from scrap coach interior.

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I see you've managed to fit bufferbeam corner steps to D804 - without breaking off those notoriously fragile sprung buffers they're hung from? Well done Sir 😀!

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The steps are one piece with a loop behind the valence and glued there so the buffers don't get strained. I also liked doing the two hole wheel set on D824 as it always had at least one, just a little filler and paint job.

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7 hours ago, D 844 said:

I also liked doing the two hole wheel set on D824 as it always had at least one, just a little filler and paint job.

 

Now that's a detail I wasn't aware of! (Almost as obscure as green D811's right-facing BR emblem 😊!)

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I didn't know about d811's emblem but as for two hole wheel sets, most early builds were all like that and then they became more widespread during overhauls, even on to Class 43's. D821 now has one on each bogie. Here is D824

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This pic is the Class 43 on the Mainline chassis, I still think Mainline wheels are the best, maybe the best of both worlds, as such no need to fiddle with cab steps and the bogie frames could altered, the new ones won't swap easily

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On 29/05/2023 at 16:56, Silver Sidelines said:

I parted with my Mainline models some years ago so I cannot check but I have it in my mind that 'Highflyer' and 'Intrepid' had different roofs to each other.  It sticks in my mind because I marvelled at the time that Mainline would go to the trouble of making two different bodyshells.

 

Cheers Ray

 

Although I don't have (and have never had) D825 'Intrepid' to be absolutely certain, I don't believe any tooling changes were made to the Mainline tooling as the roof detail on the Bachmann Class 42 is the same as the earlier version. The Mainline Warship dates back to a time when tooling slides were not widely, if ever, employed - the different nose-end designs applied to the Class 45 Peak were one-way tooling changes, once the split-box version appeared the original split-centre headcode could not be re-run.

 

I was quite impressed to see D831 'Monarch' in Bsyp livery released as I had resprayed a Mainline model to represent this one back in 1991 - I saw the real D831 often as it was a regular on the late 1960s 'Cornish Riviera' double-headers. However my version differs from Bachmann's as I didn't agree that it had a grey roof (the Corporate Image did not specify this for blue diesels). It also runs on a Lima chassis, one of five Mainline/Lima combos I put together in the 1990s and all in different liveries. They've been in storage since their last public appearance in 2005 and have now shed nameplates and traction tyres, but restoration is on my To Do List as, even if the hobby has moved on in the meantime, I am still rather proud of them!

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7 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

Although I don't have (and have never had) D825 'Intrepid' to be absolutely certain, I don't believe any tooling changes were made to the Mainline tooling as the roof detail on the Bachmann Class 42 is the same as the earlier version. The Mainline Warship dates back to a time when tooling slides were not widely, if ever, employed - the different nose-end designs applied to the Class 45 Peak were one-way tooling changes, once the split-box version appeared the original split-centre headcode could not be re-run.

 

I too did a little bit of research since my last post and captured roof images of Highflyer and Intrepid from an auction site.  They would confirm your comments.  They appear the same.  I don't know where I got my idea from.  Well done with all modifications.

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Highflyer above, Intrepid below

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Edited by Silver Sidelines
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Whilst searching for pictures of Highflyer and Intrepid I came across a video I made prior to selling.  Both Mainline Warships were fitted with Ultrascale brass drive gears and extra weight.  They made a very characteristic wirring sound.  I wonder here they are now?  One went ot the States.

 

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Mainline Warship and Bachmann 9F by Longsheds, on Flickr

 

 

 

Regards  Ray

Edited by Silver Sidelines
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This is a fascinating thread. I have a number of Mainline and Bachman models for conversion to EM gauge for a planned west country layout, US wheelsets (NS) and brass gears (for mainline) already procured.  Just acquired D835 Pegasus for renaming to D854 Tiger.  RTR whels are accurate shape wise but almost impossible to remove with out damage. Hence US wheel sets for EM.  In the past, have converted Mainline model to DCC 8 Pin and added running and cab lights.

Edited by NFWEM57
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21 minutes ago, NFWEM57 said:

RTR wheels are accurate shape wise but almost impossible to remove without damage.

 

Wow - what a task.  When I fitted the Ultrascale brass gears the Mainline wheel sets easily pulled apart with no damage.  That might well have been because there is an insulating bush on one side.  Certainly the model in my video was running very well after having the Ultrascale gears fitted (and the wheel sets pulled apart).

 

Cheers Ray

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I was using a wheel puller, might have another go using an alternate method but US wheels already purchased so may as well use them.  Below is my Mainline conversion, which I sold on a while back.  Direction sensitive cab lights (Aux2) and switchable red running lights (Aux1) both enabled by the lights function. 

 

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Cab light off (left) and on (right)

 

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I have 3 more to convert for sale with 8 pin decoder sockets and 3 more to convert to EM (for me) with 21 pin decoders, stay alive and a new PCB design which provides the same functionality described above.  Will be using ESU decoder so better motor control and tuning.  No need for light brilliance adjustments on the PCBs, all done using CVs in the decoder.

 

Patrick

Edited by NFWEM57
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I really admire your dedication with the old Mainline version of Warship. I can't quite make out on the photo whether or not the second motor is wired up, or indeed, whether or not it is a motor? It's been so long ago when I had a Mainline Warship I can't remember what the non powered bogie looked like. Anyway getting rid of traction tyres is always going to be a benefit. I might have done similar if a late Bachmann chassis hadn't come along at a bargain price. A circuit diagram of the vero board components would be nice if you would be so kind as to post it, can't make out the resistor values, trim pot values and what the integrated circuit is. To me the value of this information would be for application to other models, as I already have two sound enabled later Bachmann Warships. Maybe it might be useful for older Hornby models with pancake motors etc..

 

Eve Wallis

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23 minutes ago, Eveannessant said:

A circuit diagram of the vero board components would be nice

Hi, Thank you for your comments.  Only one motor wired up.  I too have a few later Bachmann models but its would have been a pity to part with usable stock.   I have converted Hornby Class 35s, Class 37S and Class 47s from the 1980s in much the same way. I have a newer PCB which does not use trimmers but relies on the CV adjustments for brilliance; ESU decoders. I'll dig out the diagram for the circuits shown and upload here. Please give me a day or two as family events are occurring over the weekend...!  The integrated circuit is a dual opto-coupler which is used to convert the Aux 1 and Aux 2 current sinks to a power feed for the red running lights and the cab lights. Yellow and White then used as normal for both. 

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2 hours ago, NFWEM57 said:

I was using a wheel puller, might have another go using an alternate method but US wheels already purchased so may as well use them.  Below is my Mainline conversion, which I sold on a while back.  Direction sensitive cab lights (Aux2) and switchable red running lights (Aux1) both enabled by the lights function. 

 

 

Cheers Patrick - certainly an inspiration.  I would not have used wheel pullers but would have prised the wheels apart probably using a big screw driver bit between the backs of the wheels.  The plastic gear being already cracked could be sacrificed.  Keeping on posting.  Regards Ray

Edited by Silver Sidelines
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1 hour ago, NFWEM57 said:

ESU decoders

Hi Patrick, good of you to commit to posting a circuit diagram, thanks. I've always found Zimo decoders to be better than ESU, not quite so much on diesels, but especially so on steam outline locos. I've had bad experiences with Bachmann's Hall, even the quick auto fix CV didn't work and in fact made matters worse......never had any troubles with Zimo's. Having said that I do have ESU Loksound's, mostly in some of my diesels, and they seem to be ok. I guess I'm just a Zimo fan!  I have Zimo MX644D sound decoder's in both my Warships, they run so very smoothly.

 

Eve

Edited by Eveannessant
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11 hours ago, Eveannessant said:

I've always found Zimo decoders to be better than ESU,

I started out using LaisDCC but eventually settled on ESU for the Command Station and thus decoders.  Have never purchased Zimo but some of my Steam factory fitted DCC Sound may have them fitted.  I do have Hornby TTS for my HSTs and have added stay alive to them.  The latest version of my PCB includes speaker connections and most of the stay alive circuit in the same footprint PCB.  I am using 21 pin decoders almost every where in my diesel fleet, but only a few are sound.  My planned layout is a replica, in EM, of a western mainline country junction 1960s to 1980s so it is about watching the trains go by.  Basis of circuit for switchable red shown below.  Opto-coupler used is 817A, type into google and you will find it offered by many manufactures. For a dual variant search for MCT62.  I bought in bulk a while ago and they cost me £0.11 and £0.28 each respectively.  Post COVID, no idea of cost now..!

 

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14 hours ago, Silver Sidelines said:

Cheers Patrick - certainly an inspiration.  I would not have used wheel pullers but would have prised the wheels apart probably using a big screw driver bit between the backs of the wheels.  The plastic gear being already cracked could be sacrificed.  Keeping on posting.  Regards Ray

I've replaced a few Mainline Warship final drive gears, my most recent technique for getting the wheels off is using a pair of fine nose pliers which I literally open up between the wheels either side of the gear. Best done inside a shoe box or similar as the wheels can fly off. When changing the gear one only needs one wheel off.
Of course once you can get the wheels off it is possible to swap out the traction tyre wheels, add pickups to the driven bogie or even go for twin motors, in that respect it is very handy that the dummy and motor bogies are identical tooling, with various fixing points common to both bogies even though they weren't all used on the production versions.
I ended up with enough leftovers to create a 'scrapline' Warship too which has been a bit of fun modelling.

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On 04/12/2020 at 00:43, stovepipe said:

 

An interesting read.

 

This is my list of Cl 42s produced so far, with what I've gleaned. Strictly the bodyshell is only suitable for D813-817, 819-829 and 831. The rest I've marked as inauthentic - but could of course be renumbered. Hopefully the other columns are self-explanatory.

 

image.png.760618a589d98ef74fc469aadb6a3622.png32050

 

 

 

Doing some more ferreting around with this list it would appear that 32-062 Cockade (weathered blue) was not actually made. Here's a thread from the time:

 

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2 hours ago, andyman7 said:

Doing some more ferreting around with this list it would appear that 32-062 Cockade (weathered blue) was not actually made. Here's a thread from the time:

 

 

Quite right, weathered blue 810 never appeared - I believe it was canned when the Class 43 was announced instead.

I wonder if weathered Class 43s will ever appear? (And if so will the awful gearing be amended?)

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I am trying to show the circuit with text but the writing keeps getting hidden, Will try again later.

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