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Moving to P4

Knuckles

Entry posted by Knuckles

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Ok, it is official, I have gone raving mad and took the plung into the world of P4 (not so much S4)

Starting with this post is some actual proof rather than speculation, I have made that all important start.

Pictures show some tools, gauges and bits I have brought, also I have joined two wheels to an axle using that £20 back to back gauge from Exactoscale and Loctite 243 (Suitable? Didn't want to use 603 incase I needed to remove things). Black track in background is C&L Flexible track cut to size, middle is Exactoscale 'FastTrack' which reuires you slide the rail into it and foreground is Exactoscale Plain Line track with individually placed rail chairs glued on with Butanone and gauged using the gauges.

The Butanone from Carr's was useless and I do wander if the mix is different. I thought butanone was butanone and that's all there is too it, clearly not. I don't lie when I said it performed like water, the other butanone adhesive from Wizard Models (packed for Exactoscale) was brilliant however, grabbed almost instantly and gave you some wiggle time too. Any ideas why?

Next tests are plastic chairs on plywood sleepers, the plywood and rivet can wait until I have the correct tool. After the ply and plastic chair test it's time for me to work out how to do a curve. That isn't going to be easy - I haven't a clue.

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These are both the same diameter wheels ((I checked) 00 VS P4))but the difference between the tyre thickness and flange depths speak for itself.

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Those last pictures also clearly show a ggreat difference between 4mm '00' and 4mm 'P4' for standard gauge.

Any help and advice appreciated. :)

 

POST 2

 

Had a mixture of success and faileur today.

I thought I would have a go at Exactoscalefunctional chairs with S4 0.8mm Ply Wod sleepers.

The template I used was printed off the computor but I think it has caused a few problems. I measured the sleeper spacings and from center to center they were 10mm's so I thought it'd be ok. When laying the sleepers over the double sided sticky tape on the plan the ends of the 8' 6" sleepers went past the template slightly and when I checked the rail gauge as printed it was under gauge being just over 18mm's. As this is just a constructional test I went ahead and can worry about the printer later. Any ideas on this printer issue? I'm happy to buy plain templates from stores if they have any but would also like to print correctly here.

After laying the sleepers it was the usual game of chamfering the rail and sliding them on, easy enough, then once poked with tweezers into positions I glued the outer 3 of the top rail on both ends (6) as a tack joint. After doing more reading it would seem the center woul dhave been a better option - never mind.

Then After preparing the other rail I tacked that at the center and then proceded to gauge and glue as I went along. This was easy but due to the template printing too small I encountered a problem. My 1st rail was placed exactly over the plan and so after gauging and whatnot the other rail wasn't exactly over the plan thus the outer edges of the sleepers stick out from the rail different distancies! Might be an idea to mark the sleepers but I'm unsure.

Gauge party! :D

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This pic shows the sleeper problem

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Seems I got ALL the chairs on this side the worng way around in my haste, never mind for now.

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This I guess was bound to hapen, I read that it nearly always does and sadly I didn't have the cheapo double sided sticky tape that Norman Solomon reccomends in Right Track DVD 10. I will look out for it though.

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Completed after repair. Aprt from the aforemensioned problems and niggles there are a couple more, I missed two sleepers off so it's still short of a full pannel, and becasue the chairs are functional they like to slide about if your not too careful so the closer ones towards the ends are probably a bit out now.

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Any advice on the above would be great. :) At least it isn't a complete fail, the gauges and my lone axle'd wheel seem happy.

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Horsetan

Thus began another never-ending story. It's the beauty of P4/S4. I converted back in 1990 and never regretted it.

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PaternosterRow
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Hi Knuckles

 

So glad you posted this. I'm tormenting myself at the moment about going over to P4/EM. The photo of the difference between 00 and P4 is amazing - I never thought you'd be able to tell only in real close up. It looks like a lot of hard work though and I shudder at the thought of making up points. Stick with this and keep posting - I'll be looking forward to next installment.

 

Regards

 

Mike

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Jon020

Hi Knuckles, welcome to my world... the world of having also just made the same decision and attempting to get to grips with it all... I've found that there's so much to learn. I started with a turnout kit (exactoscale) and now have some track bases too. I havent tried the ply timbers yet, so well done there.

I'm not sure if I missed a mention, but I've found the members of ScaleFour very helpful... and the encouragement I received at scaleforum was priceless. If your'e interested in finescale, insofar as detail and accuracy... which for me was primarily in locos.... then I think that you'll find the effort worthwhile; having seen the work you did on some of your locos previously, even the Rev W awdry ones, you're certainly an expert as I think you'll find it very rewarding...

so, welcome to the club... hardwork... but rewards are seldomed achieved without effort!

Jon

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ullypug
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Keep at it. It's worth it in the end.

When it comes to curves, lay the inside rail first and glue it down. If you don't have a Templot plan of the curve you want, just make a series of cuts through the P4 Soc straight track panel stopping just short of the inside rail. It can then be opened out. You'll get a series of very short straight sections but the rail won't know that and will form the curve. Then use the three legged gauge with the single leg on the inside rail and the two legs on the outer (or if you imagine it as an arrow, it points inwards to the centre of the curve). The jig will do the gauge widening for you. Just line up the chairs with the sleepers and move round as you go. I use a couple of gauges.

Practice makes perfect!

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Trebor

I was always advised and would advise lay the outside rail of the curve first or you will end up with the sleepers spacings incorrect, they can be narrower than the stated dimension but should never be greater. that was I got taught. try a bit both ways and you will see what I mean.

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S.A.C Martin

I still think you're mad, but in a good way Gavin. As always, your modelling is of the highest standard. I look forward to seeing NWR no.4, in P4, one day :)

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Paul Cram

The first piece of advice re templates is just use them as a guide and always guage with gauges. The template is lost under the ballast any way. Whilst it may appear to be a lot of work with a little practice it doesn.t take that long to lay. Points can be bilt in situ and more realistic formations can be made.

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Andy G

Hi,

I have a simple wooden jig that I use for spacing the sleepers and laying the first rail (most rail seems to be laid round bends!). It's basically a length of tongue and groove but can be anything so long as its longer than a piece of rail (1 metre) and wide enough for the track. To this is glued a template (an accurate one) and then bits of sleeper such that sleepers to be used in the track can be located in between. Unfortunately it's down at club but I'll try and get a photograph of it tomorrow night.

 

Andy

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Captain Kernow
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Whilst I've seen brilliant results with the Society wooden ply sleepers, whether with the 'traditional' method of soldering the rail to rivets or glueing Exactoscale or similar plastic chairs to it, I've always found that with patience and the right paints for you, you can get a realistic, weathered finish on plastic sleepers, whether those be SMP, C&L or Exactoscale (and I've used all three). That, at least, overcomes the problem of centering the sleepers and ensuring the overhang each side is the same...

 

I'm very impressed by your preparations, however, and do please keep going. Just like the others say, you won't regret it.

 

The only other piece of advice I haven't seen offered yet, is to visit your most local area group and see if joining them and/or the Scalefour Society is for you. One of the best things that has happened to me with my modelling over the last 40 years was joining my local Area group in South Devon. The friendship and cameraderie of a good group or club shouldn't be underestimated!

 

Good luck!

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Jan

Hello Knuckles,

 

Having seen your avatar, I'll behave myself..

 

I would just like to welcome you to the heady world of trackwork. Personally, it's my favourite component of this diverse hobby. I'd do more of it if I had the space/cash :) As you say, there's a great difference between OO and P4 in straight track, although I have seen some layouts ('Engine Wood' by a well-known buccaneer of this parish for instance) in which it's difficult to spot the missing 2.33 mm. I don't now if you have done so, but the Scalefour Society is well-worth joining. And then there's Templot.... :)

 

Cheers

 

Jan

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Ian Holmes

Good luck with the P4 project. I've been amassing P4 bits and pieces over the past few year with the intent of starting a layout. But so far I haven't got very far.

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Knuckles

Wow! May I just say thankyou to you all for the comments, I honestly didn't expect much of a responce judging from my RWS models. Thankyou very much. :)

 

I'm still new to RMweb and haven't used it much, mainly due to me finding navigation a struggle so I'm not even sure if I should post this comment here or make a new fresh post...some..-where. Anyway, I will endever to update this thread moreso now I know there is an interest. Could somebody please help me know where to post it? If I post it here I guess it won't be a proper update and no one will be alerted, but if I make one called 'Moving to P4 post 2' or something then this thread will die won't it? *Sigh* I don't know. My account layout is a mess.

 

I joined the Scalefour Society late last year and as I think a few of you have said they are amazingly helpful, much more than I expected. The post about the curve is just a paste from the S4 Forums so as I ask for help in that post, I ask it to you gys too!

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Jon020

Knuckles... those of us who've elected to "follow" your entry will get notified of further entries in here. Glad you've joined S4... I've still to really use their forum and really prefer this one... nothing against the legion of experts over there...it's just that RMW is a more modern forum and IMHO "looks" nicer. You'll also find that most S4 forum members are also on here..

Regarding a new posting (#2) no, this entry will still be here. You can organise your blogs... I do mine as workbench, real locos, layout. The workbench blog (which seems quite popular) is an area that entries will be sat in.. so you could open your workbench blog ... and see all the entries. You'll also note that they appear on the right hand side (in some of the "blocks" that you can add). You can also insert a new block and create an index of entries. I asked about this a few months back and there a thread running with the answer to how to do it - I did one for my detaling a P4 Bachman class 55 .... which worked well.

Yes it's different but worth it.., just like P4.

I actually get as much enjoyment from posting and conversing on here as I do from modelling. I hope that you will to!

Best regards

Jon

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Knuckles

Ok, thanks for the info. I'm still confuzed to be honest. I'll make new post that isn't simply a comment reply here called 'Moving to P4 (post 2) and see how that is, hopefully if it's organized wrong I can rectify things later without cocking things up!

 

Hmm...

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