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Telegraph Poles


wenlock

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I was posting some pictures of Sherton Abbas on the "O gauge Guild" forum  https://www.gauge0guild.com/, where it was pointed out that my poor signalman had no means of communicating with the rest of the world.  This situation obviously had to be rectified by the addition of some telegraph paraphernalia!  I spent some time researching the subject, but as is so often the case in this hobby, the more I read the more questions I needed answering:-)  During my search I came across a number of interesting sites including this one http://www.telegraphpoleappreciationsociety.org/ 

For what its worth, I feel that any site with a "Pole of the Month" has to be worth a read!

 

One of the O gauge guild members "Jim Snowdon" is a font of information about the subject and has given permission for an article he wrote to be posted on the forum. Railways and Overhead Pole Routes - with pictures.pdf

 

The article goes a long way in helping to demystify the world of Telegraph poles, with an emphasis from a modelling point of view and I thoroughly recommend anyone interested in the subject giving it a read!

 

I decided to use the Peco poles https://peco-uk.com/products/telegraph-poles-pack-of-4 as a starting point, hoping to customise them into something more appropriate for an early 20th century Great Western branch line:-)

 

Photographs of prototype poles around the turn of the last Century appear to only have had two insulators per arm and the arms are also of two different lengths and staggered.  This was something I was keen to represent on my layout,  so some surgery of the Peco arms was required!

 

Peco Arms  as supplied in the kit

IMG_2556a.jpg.6f93c6bc4e311fe78d36a18122bbf570.jpg

 

The arms were cut to the appropriate length and then drilled with 0.5mm holes before insulator supports at he correct spacing could be fitted using Slater's Plastikard micro rod.

 

Arms after modification on right side of image

IMG_2558a.jpg.7759ec255d082e6c19e68f999886700e.jpg

 

The Peco poles have provision for fitting 3 arms into rebates cut into the poles, so depending on the number of arms that need fitting to the modelled poles, either some filler or additional rebates will be needed.

 

Example of modified pole

IMG_2561a.jpg.77617580014718d1cfbf4b41a89203a5.jpg

 

The next thing to be considered were the insulators, which appear to come in two main types.  The majority of insulators enable the supported wire to pass through it and then run on to the next post down the line, however where wires are terminating at a post, or building a different type of insulator was used.  These are known as Pothead insulators and have a distinctive flat top rather than the conical shape of conventional insulators.  Pot head insulators are also mounted on "J hangers" below the post arm which help to minimise any twisting of the arms.  I was keen to model these features, on my model poles.

 

The Peco kit contains quite nice representations of conventional conical topped insulators, so these were fitted onto poles where the wires were not terminating.

 

Poles with conventional insulators.

IMG_2571a.jpg.fc0c581d87928baca8f52c3f4abcf9f6.jpg

 

The pole adjacent to the signal box would have been fitted Pothead insulators mounted on "J hangers" for any wires that would terminate at the signal box, insulated cables would then have been used to carry current from these insulators, down the pole and into the signal box.  Telephone wires would have continued from this pole to the Goods Shed and Station building, so on these arms conventional insulators would have been employed.

 

To represent the "J hangers" I used some 0.5mm brass wire, bent into shape using some round nosed pliers and fitted into pre-drilled holes of the correct spacing into the arms.

 

J hangers mounted into arms

IMG_2592a.jpg.ca492b677ef2f9060fcfccd1aca8ca4f.jpg

 

I simulated the flat top appearance of the pothead insulators by heating a screw driver blade in a flame and then pressing onto the top of a standard Peco insulator.  The thermoplastic distorts quite easily and can be pressed into a more convincing shape, most of the time :-)

 

Signal box pole fitted with pothead insulators on three of the arms and conventional insulators on one arm.

IMG_2595a.jpg.37f9a2587ef6fdad66409d68c3446f5e.jpg

 

The poles were painted with enamel paint, first with a dark brown and then dry brushed with gun metal to simulate weathered wood.  Once the poles had dried they were fitted onto the layout by drilling holes and then held in position using 5 minute epoxy resin.

 

Example pole 

IMG_2573a.jpg.4c107da7e5d6da9d04cf5c57bdbb89e6.jpg

Once all the poles had been installed in their positions on the layout, the "fun" could begin adding the telegraph wires.  I used E Z elastic thread https://www.modelscenerysupplies.co.uk/brands/EZ-Line/EZ-Line-Rope  to simulate the wires, attached to the insulators with a drop of cyanoacrylate glue applied with a cock tail stick.

 

Fortunately I only need 3 poles on Sherton Abbas and with the addition of some insulators mounted on J hanger brackets where the wires terminate on buildings, the telegraph/telephone system is now complete.

 

Images of the completed poles on the layout

IMG_2603a.jpg.e3b02225e531b234f276a14e09feee63.jpg

 

IMG_2604a.jpg.ed1651df47fe246f0f4fde258b397ae3.jpg

 

IMG_2605a.jpg.a80e00b7e70d804be1a66c58c285befe.jpg

 

IMG_2584a.jpg.f2090d2b25e096dbda8a7c87031d5732.jpg

 

 

 

The signalman at Sherton Abbas is delighted with this new addition,  he's no longer startled by the arrival of the 8.17 am and spilling his tea is a thing of the past!:-)

 

 

The 8.17 am train arriving at Sherton Abbas

IMG_2614a.jpg.5c05dcbad63fa69f7500b981d0dac2a9.jpg

 

Thanks again to Jim Snowdon for his excellent article and for allowing me to publish it on the forum.  Its a subject that I knew very little about before starting this project, but I've enjoyed finding out what was used and why so much that I might even join the Telegraph Pole Appreciation Society:-)

 

Sherton Abbas will be appearing at Railex later this month http://www.railex.org.uk/ hopefully I'll see some of you there.

 

Best wishes

 

Dave

 

Edited by wenlock

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Pole of the month? How have I got this far in life without seeing such a thrilling contest? ;)
Looking good Mr Wenlock!

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Thanks matey:-)  The world is definitely a better place for having a "Pole of the Month":D 

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My complements sir, as a retired telephone engineer who started his working life with B.R. in the S & T dept and ended with our local telephone company, your poles look spot on to me.  I am working on the same project at the moment for our groups 0 gauge layout "Millicent Street" which is based on  a fictitious  sight  in Hull. 

I'm sure you are about to do this  anyway, but may I point out that the "lids" on the terminating pots show be painted black and in any case all pots should be toned down so as the local kids will not use them for target practice. 

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19 minutes ago, Judge Dread said:

My complements sir, as a retired telephone engineer who started his working life with B.R. in the S & T dept and ended with our local telephone company, your poles look spot on to me.  I am working on the same project at the moment for our groups 0 gauge layout "Millicent Street" which is based on  a fictitious  sight  in Hull. 

I'm sure you are about to do this  anyway, but may I point out that the "lids" on the terminating pots show be painted black and in any case all pots should be toned down so as the local kids will not use them for target practice. 

Hi Judge D,

 

I'm delighted that you think the poles look the part:-)  I didn't realise that the terminating pot lids were black, I thing a little judicious touching up will be needed!  I'm sure the children in the "rural idyll" of Sherton Abbas wouldn't dream of throwing things at my insulators, but just to be on the safe side I'll tone them down a bit:-)

 

Dave

Edited by wenlock
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A great addition to your station. I also forgot to plan some telegraph poles along the road of my farm diorama.

Thanks for all the information, will have further look at that. Again some great modelling, that brings your station more alive.

Edited by Job's Modelling
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About time too Dave, I've been trying to get through for ages !

 

Seriously, its one of those sites that become fascinating to read and so useful too.

 

Just out of interest what diameter are the poles please ? I have only scratch built one from dowelling so far and just interested to see how they measure up. 

 

Nice work.

 

G

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Excellent detail. 

 

Must get on with some for Kelvinbank. 

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2 hours ago, Judge Dread said:

My complements sir, as a retired telephone engineer who started his working life with B.R. in the S & T dept and ended with our local telephone company, your poles look spot on to me.  I am working on the same project at the moment for our groups 0 gauge layout "Millicent Street" which is based on  a fictitious  sight  in Hull. 

I'm sure you are about to do this  anyway, but may I point out that the "lids" on the terminating pots show be painted black and in any case all pots should be toned down so as the local kids will not use them for target practice. 

 

On my kitchen beam I have a selection of gpo insulators, and I have both composition (black) and porcelain (white) pot head versions. In my experience it’s very rare to see a white pothead with a black top....

 

the poles look good, the only thing is that you have your wires too tight, there should be a drop in the span, or else they will snap in hot weather. Unless, of course, you are modelling a very cold winters day....

 

Andy g

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Superb. Really looking forward to seeing Sherton Abbas in the flesh. 

Your approach to such a seemingly insignificant object makes me want to rush out and bung some in on Bristol...but alas my ‘to do’ list is long enough already...!!

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They look really nice, although the times I’ve had poles I always shyed away from actually doing the wires, as being minuscule and far too vulnerable. 

There was an article published in “Model Railways” for April 1975 by Mr. Wilf  Wells, “Telegraph and Telephone line construction methods of the LNER” which runs over much the same ground.

As to dimensions, the only size given is a minimum diameter of 7”, the poles tapering out from that.

Pole of the Month?

30705490-B946-43EF-A9C8-06DB6F7120CC.jpeg.e3e5a764b680cd1dd8444b54176cae17.jpeg

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Very good! As a member of the TPAS it's good to see a realistic model installation with detailed attention to the subtleties.

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2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I basked in momentary fame last year - http://www.telegraphpoleappreciationsociety.org/west-somerset-poles/ :biggrin_mini2:

You should be very proud Andy!:D

 

2 hours ago, Job's Modelling said:

A great addition to your station. I also forgot to plan some telegraph poles along the road of my farm diorama.

Thanks for all the information, will have further look at that. Again some great modelling, that brings your station more alive.

Thanks Job!

 

1 hour ago, bgman said:

About time too Dave, I've been trying to get through for ages !

 

Seriously, its one of those sites that become fascinating to read and so useful too.

 

Just out of interest what diameter are the poles please ? I have only scratch built one from dowelling so far and just interested to see how they measure up. 

 

Nice work.

 

G

Hi Grahame, I'll get the measure out later on!:D  In the article that Jim wrote it states this.

 

The poles themselves came in different grades – light, medium and stout – and having at one time been trees, varied in diameter from top to bottom. As a guide, published figures for 30 foot poles of each grade, measured at the top and 5 feet up from the butt, are:- Light 5 - 6” / 7¼” Medium 6 - 7¼” / 8 ¾” Stout 7½ - 9½” / 10 ¾”

 

I hope that helps!

 

1 hour ago, Dave John said:

Excellent detail. 

 

Must get on with some for Kelvinbank. 

Thanks Dave, I reckon you'll need more than 3 posts!

 

1 hour ago, uax6 said:

 

On my kitchen beam I have a selection of gpo insulators, and I have both composition (black) and porcelain (white) pot head versions. In my experience it’s very rare to see a white pothead with a black top....

 

Hi Andy that's useful information, perhaps I'd be wise to leave well alone:D

 

1 hour ago, uax6 said:

 

the poles look good, the only thing is that you have your wires too tight, there should be a drop in the span, or else they will snap in hot weather. Unless, of course, you are modelling a very cold winters day....

 

Andy g

I had a go at trying to simulate the sag in the wires and it was fairly easy to achieve on single or double runs of wire. However trying to get the same amount of sag on the 8 wires leading down from the bridge to the signal box was a nightmare!  We'll just have to assume its a rather bracing kind of day!:lol:

 

1 hour ago, Tricky said:

Superb. Really looking forward to seeing Sherton Abbas in the flesh. 

Your approach to such a seemingly insignificant object makes me want to rush out and bung some in on Bristol...but alas my ‘to do’ list is long enough already...!!

Thanks Richard!  I'm also really looking forward to seeing " Midland in Bristol" in the flesh:D

 

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

They look really nice, although the times I’ve had poles I always shyed away from actually doing the wires, as being minuscule and far too vulnerable. 

There was an article published in “Model Railways” for April 1975 by Mr. Wilf  Wells, “Telegraph and Telephone line construction methods of the LNER” which runs over much the same ground.

As to dimensions, the only size given is a minimum diameter of 7”, the poles tapering out from that.

Pole of the Month?

30705490-B946-43EF-A9C8-06DB6F7120CC.jpeg.e3e5a764b680cd1dd8444b54176cae17.jpeg

And a rather splendid example she most certainly is!

 

48 minutes ago, Booking Hall said:

Very good! As a member of the TPAS it's good to see a realistic model installation with detailed attention to the subtleties.

Thanks, much appreciated!

 

Thanks for all the comments, best wishes.

 

Dave

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1 hour ago, wenlock said:

Hi Grahame, I'll get the measure out later on!:D  In the article that Jim wrote it states this.

 

The poles themselves came in different grades – light, medium and stout – and having at one time been trees, varied in diameter from top to bottom. As a guide, published figures for 30 foot poles of each grade, measured at the top and 5 feet up from the butt, are:- Light 5 - 6” / 7¼” Medium 6 - 7¼” / 8 ¾” Stout 7½ - 9½” / 10 ¾”

 

I hope that helps!

 

Hi Dave,

 

Very much appreciated, no rush though, I've just had confirmation of my house move since I asked you ( next Thursday !!! gulp ! ) and all 7mm items now packed safely away so I couldn't get to my pole even if I wanted to now :rolleyes_mini:

Anytime mate.

 

G

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This all looks fab, Dave.

 

For what it's worth I spent a bit of time looking at pictures of signal boxes in my Southern Infrastructure books to see if I could discern how the wires

terminate at the box, but other than a vague impression of them going in somewhere level with the guttering, I didn't have anything useful to add. The

wires are one of those things that don't register well in old photos, alas.

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"Jizz" comes from birdwatching, by the way - there's a whole sub-culture of attempts to explain the origin of the term!

 

It's derived from that fleeting impression of a bird which is nonetheless sufficient for the experienced birder to identify the avian in question, because

they get the "jizz" of the bird - some indefinable quality not strongly related to colour and markings. It's been said to derive from "GISS" meaning "General

impression of size and shape", which in term has at least tentatively been linked to WW2 aircraft identification charts!

 

Anyway, as you were.

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7 hours ago, bgman said:

 

Hi Dave,

 

Very much appreciated, no rush though, I've just had confirmation of my house move since I asked you ( next Thursday !!! gulp ! ) and all 7mm items now packed safely away so I couldn't get to my pole even if I wanted to now :rolleyes_mini:

Anytime mate.

 

G

Excellent news on the house front!  Thoroughly looking forward to seeing the results of a new modelling room!

 

6 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

This all looks fab, Dave.

Thanks Al

 

6 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

For what it's worth I spent a bit of time looking at pictures of signal boxes in my Southern Infrastructure books to see if I could discern how the wires

terminate at the box, but other than a vague impression of them going in somewhere level with the guttering, I didn't have anything useful to add. The

wires are one of those things that don't register well in old photos, alas.

Thanks for looking, I spent ages looking through my book collection and as you say the wires are hardly conspicuous!

I found a couple of modern high res pics of the box at Highley which helped, along with more advice from Jim Snowdon. 

 

6 hours ago, K14 said:

Thanks for the links Pete, those signs are fabulous!

 

46 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

"Jizz" comes from birdwatching, by the way - there's a whole sub-culture of attempts to explain the origin of the term!

 

It's derived from that fleeting impression of a bird which is nonetheless sufficient for the experienced birder to identify the avian in question, because

they get the "jizz" of the bird - some indefinable quality not strongly related to colour and markings. It's been said to derive from "GISS" meaning "General

impression of size and shape", which in term has at least tentatively been linked to WW2 aircraft identification charts!

 

Anyway, as you were.

Goodness me, you learn some very esoteric facts on this forum!

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Wonderful work Dave, and thanks for sharing the article. Lots of interesting info in the comments too, thanks gents.

 

Dave, are the poles fixed permanently in place? I was wondering about transport of the layout.

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8 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Wonderful work Dave, and thanks for sharing the article. Lots of interesting info in the comments too, thanks gents.

Thanks Mikkel:-)

 

9 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

 

Dave, are the poles fixed permanently in place? I was wondering about transport of the layout.

Yes the poles are glued in place on the layout.  The backscene is also permanently  fixed to the layout and projects way above the poles.  During transportation the boards are placed on their ends and held in position relative to each other by a beam.  The trees and other scenic details have survived the trip to a few shows now, let’s hope the poles follow suit!:-)

 

Best wishes

 

Dave

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Dave, 

Beautifully observed and excellent craftsmanship. Looking forward to Railex...

DrDuncan

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8 hours ago, wenlock said:

Thanks for looking, I spent ages looking through my book collection and as you say the wires are hardly conspicuous!

I found a couple of modern high res pics of the box at Highley which helped, along with more advice from Jim Snowdon.

This photo of Craigellachie cabin confirms the way you have led your wires in Dave. Incidentally, I have part of one of the cross arms from this particular pole!

Craigellachie_signal_box.jpg

007.JPG

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2 hours ago, drduncan said:

Dave, 

Beautifully observed and excellent craftsmanship. Looking forward to Railex...

DrDuncan

Thanks Duncan:-) Yes very much looking forward to the show!  

 

32 minutes ago, Booking Hall said:

This photo of Craigellachie cabin confirms the way you have led your wires in Dave. Incidentally, I have part of one of the cross arms from this particular pole!

Craigellachie_signal_box.jpg

007.JPG

 

Excellent picture, well found!  That’s a splendid looking pole and very interesting to see white and black insulators on one arm-)

 

Best wishes

 

Dave

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Great work as usual Dave. When it comes to poles I do have a fair bit of experience I am old enough to have run open wires which is what would be done in the old days. 

 

Don

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