Keith Addenbrooke

Does the team have adding some platform shelters (waiting rooms and / or awnings) on their list? Just a thought as they work their way round the layout upgrading it. The passengers might welcome some cover at some point (especially seeing the weather here today!). Have fun this evening at the club, progress looks great, Keith.

Hi Andy, are you able to check the “back to back” measurement for that wheel set - it looks from the photo that the flange is riding up on that third axle? Is it catching on the check rail* inside it? The other questions in my mind are the obvious ones? Does it just happen on one side of the loco? Does it happen on just one side of the slip - or in all directions? Does it happen on any other Code 55 Insulfrog points? Does it happen with any other rolling stock (you mentioned lightweight wagons - do the same tests with them?) Basically it’s all about eliminating the variables before any irreversible filing begins - just as with electrical problems (which I know nothing about). Nothing original in my thinking, but I hope it helps, Keith. (* may not be the correct term in a double slip)

Afraid I can join the chorus - suggests it might not just be a common problem still, not just an isolated case or two, sorry. Keith.

Hi Chris, if I might make a suggestion, one way would be to use a jig - perhaps from thick plasticard or wooden coffee stirrers glued together to form an inverted L bracket on the workbench (or maybe just stiff cardboard creased to the desired angle). Make the small slate roof on that, then transfer it to the model. If it doesn’t work first time (I’m sure mine wouldn’t) then no damage is done to the model. Just a thought, Keith.

For N Gauge you will probably need to sieve it. For my H0e / HOn30 mini-layout I used Calci-sand (another pet shop product): Being a sand, it did turn the colour of, well, sand, when I wetted it, so it wouldn’t work for everyone, but the size was OK for 9mm gauge track in the larger scale, Keith.

I’ve got that T-shirt! Made the mistake with an OO micro layout a few years ago of using Ballast sold for 4mm scale - not realising it’s standard practice to use ballast for the next scale down! That project went no further. Shame was I’d spent ages widening the sleeper spacing on the OO track I was using, removing the webbing and making it look like track spaced for UK use. A bit like @AndyB and his point (though I was far less brave), widening the sleeper spacing was something I’d been keen to try, but just did not enjoy (at all). Meant I could decide to accept the compromise that is commercial trackwork knowing I had at least had a go at an alternative (of sorts). One day I’d like to try handbuilt track, but probably not on a layout. Keith.

Hi @Camps Junction, there’s a fascinating discussion here that has made for very interesting reading. I wonder if I might add a couple of thoughts, although I am late to the party on some points. Hope that’s OK. My first thought has been addressed - although this kind of project looks to me more like a ‘layout of a lifetime’ than a retirement project, you have explained your early retirement, so there should be time for something this ambitious. @AndyB has mentioned leaving space for a workbench, which I’d say is essential - I’d suggest it’s the biggest failing of published / internet track plans that they appear to exist in a vacuum: like a house with a great dining room but no kitchen! My next thought is about the choice of N Gauge. My suggestion would be to buy a few pieces of rolling stock and a couple of building kits to try out before you move. I’ve learned that what governs my choice of scale is not the big things (ie: how much layout I want in a given space), but it is the tiny ones. Some people stick with N without any problems, but for others time (eyesight and dexterity) will catch up with us. I started my modelling journey in the late 1970s with N Gauge, but when I revisited it a couple of years ago found it was now too small for me. The level of detail has improved massively, but I couldn’t actually see it all, and the finesse of some components (especially couplings - in my case the American Micro-Trains style), meant they were just too fiddly for me. I had plenty of fun with a tabletop test track, but had to acknowledge I’d be stuffed as soon as anything broke on a layout. I don’t have any UK outline stock to photo these days, but this picture shows what I’m on about: (L to R: traditional N Scale Arnold coupler, standard 009 coupler, HO Kadee coupler, and N Scale Micro-Trains coupler - a lot smaller than all the others). “Do experiment” would be my suggestion. One of the points made at the start was the desire to avoid a layout looking too much like a glorified train set. This may sound daft, but trying to imagine your space, first of all empty and then with a layout in it, I just wonder if the single biggest thing that makes a difference might actually be the baseboard width? I know this has been mentioned several times (it’s a lesson we all learn the hard way), but my point is a slightly different one: picture the empty shed (insulated). Then add in a narrower shelf layout - baseboard width perhaps 18” set at shoulder height. Even before any track is laid, this says “layout” to me - and the narrower baseboard can make the length seem longer. There’s more space to move around in: the room is less cramped. Now replace that layout with 3’ wide tables at a height that enables you to reach across, which is likely to be waist height (it’s where our bodies bend), with a smaller space in the middle. To my mind this may well say ‘glorified train set’ unless I’m very careful, in this kind of space. It’s just a thought and others may well have an entirely different perspective (literally on this point), but maybe something to consider. An American outline basement filler can get away with narrow aisles, but this space isn’t that big. A couple of other considerations: budget (money for baseboard wood, track, electrics / electronics and trains, and time for building structures and scenery). That’s for private consideration. Finally, visitors - how many people might you want to have in your shed (and might any of them be wheelchair users, for whom ideal layout height can be different)? @St Enodoc is possibly the best person to comment on this side of things, as his layout is both large and able to accommodate a team for operating sessions. He also understands signalling, but (as has been covered just above), might be expensive to invite over. Sorry for such a long post - it may be everything I’ve mentioned has been boxed off already, but just in case I hope it’s OK to add my contribution at this stage still. Thanks, Keith.

Hi @melmerby, I wonder if I might share a few thoughts? It might also be worth starting a thread in the USA and Canadian Railroads Forum as well, as some specialist US contributors may not follow this part of the Forum too. My first thought is that the space you have, in particular the lengths of each side, sound ideal for the kind of layout concept you're looking at, and a 16" baseboard width also sounds good to me. In some of his US track planning writing, the late great Iain Rice wrote about how different width s work for different settings, and I would say 16" offers a good compromise without crowding the room you're in. It's a great base you have to work from. Above and beyond that, the world (or at least, the North American continent) is yours to explore. The era you've gone for allows you to mix 40', 50' (the dominant size for the 60s I’d suggest) and some longer cars, and it's OK to use cars with roof boards / walkways, as they were not banned until the early 1970s. I know from my own second hand purchasing that it means you'll easily find plenty of rolling stock (although 40 cars is a good number to pause at for now). Everything is diesel, but the 60s is before a lot of the mergers took place that have given us the more consolidated picture we see today. My next thought therefore is to ask what kind of story you want to tell - or, in other words, what's your vision for the layout? Do you fancy something representing an industrial area on the outskirts of a city, or something more rural? I'd agree with @fulton that a 'less is more' layout could look fantastic - his own is a great example. As you mention the concept of a truncated line that approach may fit really well. You could happily spend hours on the internet looking through some amazing resources (no prizes for guessing how I know), and you'll find plenty of encouragement from the likes of Lance Mindheim and Thomas Klimoski. James McNab's models of the Iowa State are also worth checking out: he has a series on his Hills Line layout made for Model Railroader on YouTube. For some 'off the scale' modelling, check out Boomer Dioramas. Two more are John2618 and Red Dirt and Rails (the latter focuses on rural switching). There are plenty of examples here on RMweb as well of course. One key difference between US outline and UK layouts in similar spaces is that US layouts often do without a Fiddle Yard. There are several reasons for this, but the key one is that the kind of layout I think you may have in mind would quite likely represent a prototype that only saw one train per day. All you need is a staging track - make up your train before the ops session starts, and by the time you've switched all the car spots and made up the return train, you could easily find several hours have passed (the point being that specific cars get switched to specific spots for individual rail-served industries). An alternative, to incorporate @DCB's suggestion, which would be another common approach, would be to have a yard along one side of the layout, with industries along the other side. The yard could represent an interchange, either with another railroad or with a mainline. Again, load it up with the cars you want for an operating session before you start and there's no need for a non-scenic fiddle yard. In terms of industries, some thoughts: an interchange with an off-scene railroad (any or every type of car could use this), a team track / trans load facility - another easy to model track that just needs space for trucks alongside, perhaps a loading dock. A generic warehouse for boxcar traffic is another easy win (and easily modelled in low relief). A fuel distributor for tank car traffic. Gondolas could carry scrap metal (model lots of junk but all you need for unloading are suitable road vehicles with grab buckets and the like). Livestock / stock car traffic had all but finished, while covered hoppers (now the primary car type I believe) were still on their way in. It all depends if you want to model a number of smaller industries, or a few (or just one) larger one that takes a variety of traffic. Those are just a few ideas off the top of my head. Other things to think about are the type and size of buildings and structures you want, which part of the States (or Canada) you want to represent, what the dominant industries might be (and how generic / specific they are). I know I've happily spent much of the past year playing around with different ideas. in the end I've gone in a different direction (again, no surprises there for anyone who knows me), but one thing I can be confident of - you won't find any shortage of ideas once you get started. Two quick final thoughts - do get out your freight cars and play around with them - see what looks good, and what looks great; particularly given the size of US models, it's a great way to test ideas (my own recent thread was full of those kind of photos). And finally, finally, have a look at Tom Johnson's Cass County Railroad on the MRH Forum. Spend some time looking at his photos and modelling, and you'll never look at the hobby in the same light again! Hope that all helps more than it confuses, Keith.

Another sad loss - American Model Builder kits offered a large range of high quality products: the Depot kits in particular have always impressed me. Thanks for sharing the news here, I’d not seen it elsewhere, Keith.

Photos like that also remind us larger-scale modellers just how small N Scale (and this layout) actually is: made me stop and think, even though I use 9mm track for HO Narrow Gauge! Looks great, Keith.

I've been on the lookout for a countryside steam era Station kit. Faller offer several fairly generic examples, often Combination Depots with an adjoining Goods Shed (Güterschuppen). However, I was rather taken by this one, which I spotted being sold with a generous preowned discount as the box had been opened. It'll need a separate Goods Shed: The only bit missing was the station clock. As I want it for an earlier era, I can live without the modern clock in the picture. More of an issue was that a start had been made on the kit, with a few of the window and door surrounds having been glued in place, visible in this photo below: I prefer to paint components before assembly if I can. It gets round the fact I'm not a neat painter - it only took a few minutes to brush paint these quoins and chimney components while they were still on their sprue, for example: As it would turn out, almost half the time I spent on this kit ended up on the walls and bits that had been started. It all began quite promisingly. I opted for rattle can spray paint. I really liked the way a quick coat of white brought out the relief on the walls, and the bricks on the door and window surrounds. Here's a close-up of one section that had been started: But I decided to add a second coat of a creamier colour, using white gloss spray paint from a rattle can. It would give me a contrast with the doors and window frames, which were white. I'd not allowed for the gloss paint being thicker, and by the time I'd also tried picking out the door and window surrounds, messed that up, then re-sprayed it all so I could have a second go at the brickwork, I'd covered the details. I'd also wasted about a week while leaving each new coat of paint to dry: This was clearly not good enough. I wondered about giving it a Dettol bath to remove the paint, but to save some time I just tried scraping off the extra paint from the brickwork. My first attempts were a bit too rough, but showed it could work. Feeling suitably chastened by my errors, I took as much care as I could while I added the windows and shutters, the doors and the stonework detail (printed paper on card). The overall improvement came as a big relief. It still looks rather scruffy in this close-up, but at a normal viewing distance I now felt satisfied I could proceed. Lesson learned: I had another small fail with some of the green door panels, which I found out were of a softer plastic that didn't like being sanded to fit. On the other hand, I was impressed with the design of the Faller windows - with fixing lugs to aid alignment. I fitted the window frames then the glazing in separate modelling sessions to reduce the risk of any glue marks showing: One instruction I didn't follow was the suggestion to make each part of the building as a separate module, then glue them to the platform: Experience has taught me they probably wouldn't have fitted together properly, so I built them up in place piece by piece, again taking a lot more time than I would usually do at this stage (which paid off). I added the quoins only after all the walls were in place. I've previously encountered the box-shaped paper inserts used inside some continental building kits, and again took my time over these, even though they get hidden from view: I'm not a weathering expert, but have found that, as long as I've added some simple weathering to the roofs of a building, I don't need to do much else. My technique is very simple: after painting the roof a dark grey I added a thin wash from some dirty white spirits, brushed with a handy square of kitchen roll. It's not sophisticated, but seems to work for me: When I showed a different Station Kit I'd made at a local meeting of our 009 Society Group, it was pointed out (quite correctly) that I should also have looked at the Station platform. This time I left it with a coat of grey primer, as that seemed a bit grittier - still rather uniform, but less obviously too clean. I can add more weathering later, to suit the surroundings: Although my colour scheme is basically the same as the box photo, I do feel painting everything does make quite a difference, something to remember when tackling larger kits than this (where it can be tempting not to bother). I also wanted a more 'grown-up' colour for some of the details, so went for black for the guttering and metal fence: I painted the two wooden platform benches in a darker green (actually olive yellow), and gave them black legs. I decided not to use a more modern looking corner bench - that'll go into the spares box: To avoid glue marks around the feet of the benches, I glued them in place using the rear feet and backs only. The design of the chimney stacks is ingenious and means no glue need be applied to outside joins - just a dab in each fixing hole. I went for black metalwork for the station lamps, painting the bulbs yellow, which I then overpainted with a thin layer of metallic brass (Humbrol Met 54) paint before gluing them in place. I figured lamps on an older station would not be the bright white of today's illuminations, and adding the metallic paint helps them look less, well, like painted plastic (the photo below is the yellow before the metallic paint was added). Another good thing about the Faller kit is the fixing holes for details like the fences and lamps go right through the base, so they can be glued in place from underneath - much neater. The station signs are printed on card, so I added a backing of plasticard, painting the edges black before gluing them in place: Sometimes the final details takes longer than the basic assembly, but the time I spent pre-assembly meant the final stages seemed quicker - I just worked in smaller sessions, leaving each step to dry / set overnight before doing anything else. The end result is something I'm very happy with. I still have some timetables / posters I can also add later if I want to: I like the way the level of detail compares with a simpler but slightly larger American outline Walthers kit for a Depot that probably served a similar sized town: Overall, despite the early set-back (self-inflicted), the latter stages of this build turned out to be very enjoyable. It has given me something I'm happy to share here. A nice project finished off in half-term. As always, comments and advice are welcome. Thanks for taking a look, Keith.

A nice reminder how long the Re460 locos have been around, seeing them with mainly green coaches, Keith.

Just wondering how long the stub end of the centre track is - I'm guessing it will serve just as a loco release / run-round? Looks like an 08 may be OK, but not a bogie loco? Just wondered, Keith.

Yes, I'm sure you can. Whether any of the rest of us could might be a different question. Here's one way it's been done - the "aisle filler" technique: The commentary is in German, but English subtitles are available on most of the videos (sorry - not this one apparently). Keith.

Could I ask which brand(s) of plastics compatible grease is / are to be recommended? Might be wise for me to get some now my collection is almost exclusively second hand locos; even if they don’t get run very often I’m trying to maintain them better, Keith.

OK, a little bit of thread drift here, but how about a present day prototype railroad that cuts the corner off a Churchyard (see around 1.30 to 3.30): Helpful for layout planning perhaps? Keith.

Welcome, the Diorama looks excellent - and the locos look like a nicely weathered fleet, just as I remember them from that era too. Looks like a great start, Keith.

I just thought it might helpful to add an update to this thread as we’re in the process of getting ready to move house to a more accessible property and are working our way through everything stored in our cellar (stuff that had nowhere else to go). How do things look three / four years on? The last couple of winters have been milder and our dehumidifier has been working overtime - but it has still become noticeable that the rate at which any paper or wooden items having been getting damp and going mouldy has accelerated. We’ve even found damp / mould on hard plastic (Lego pieces). The passage of time has therefore confirmed the points made here back in 2020 - in less than four years, anything I might have tried in terms of a cellar layout would almost certainly have needed to be abandoned, wasting of a lot of time and money. I remain extremely glad that the idea of a cellar layout was questioned (with thanks to @AndyB , @The Stationmaster and the others who spoke up at the time). It was clearly the right advice. Our next home doesn’t have a cellar at all - though where a layout might go will be another story. Thanks, Keith.

So…what happened next? (I’d actually not realised it was three years ago I paused here). The project took a back seat but was never completely closed. Numerous changes to the space I have for modelling over the past couple of years, plus the excitement of exploring several other possible projects, meant that Union Station has just been sitting on top of a wardrobe. Now however the time has come to formally close this thread - we’re moving house soon to a more accessible but significantly smaller property. The rolling stock I had from my Dad has been returned to him and I’m making arrangements to pass on Union Station, along with a couple of other Walthers Kits I made: Walthers Merchants’ Row I also appeared earlier in this thread: Merchants Row II didn’t but complete the trio: (The marks inside the second window along the frontage are much fainter in reality - I’d not noticed them before) I’m part way through building an HO wooden craftsman kit for another store - when it is lined up next to these buildings it shows how carefully compressed the Walthers’ kits are: the wooden building is just one town store: I really enjoyed building these - especially as they are very familiar from the pages of Model Railroader magazine. Although I’m no longer planning to complete my Union Station Diorama, I’m still a fan of station kits - over the past year or so I built five: (Moorbach is European TT, while Pagosa Jct was for a Narrow Gauge HOn30 mini-layout. The largest one at the rear had almost 400 parts and took two months - it’s a Faller model of a Swiss BLS commuter station). Tackling Union Station gave me the confidence to keep building, knowing I can do the job well enough that I can enjoy both the building and the outcome. Hopefully - after we move - I’ll be able to take my next project further. Thanks, Keith.

Hi there, an interesting blog post, thank you. Just to reassure, track can be taken up and re-laid if needs be (the real railway does it). It is usually best to give new track a thorough testing before progressing to any ballasting or scenic, just in case and odd problem arises, sometimes just with a particular piece of rolling stock, or in a certain direction of travel. To answer one question: back in the day I think RTR when referring to track was called “Ready to Lay (RTL)”, though I’m not sure I’ve heard that term in a long time now. Resin Structures have been called “Ready to Plant (RTP)”. Hope that helps, Keith.

Looks great - I tried a similar track plan for a GWR micro-layout BLT in OO a few years ago: it was fun to test run, but I didn’t get as far as scenics, I’m afraid. In terms of switching the loco release to the front, the idea of the platform line becoming a siding reminded me somewhat of the arrangement at Hemyock (OK: there wasn’t a run-round by the platform, I’m just thinking there was a short siding at that end of the platform). Don’t know if that helps, but will be interested to follow progress, Keith.

Thanks for the reply - as far as I’m aware, the Heljan Lyndon and Barnstaple locos are the only new generation 009 r-t-r ones I can think of that specify a minimum radius larger than 9” (I believe 12” is recommended), so you should be fine in N. Wales. Bachmann assume a 9” minimum radius I believe (always worth double checking of course). As @009 micro modeller indicates, the actual minimum radius for a lot of narrow gauge locos can be less than it says on the box, and older models should certainly cope. Of all the plans and ideas you’ve shared on RMweb in recent years I think my personal favourite was the spare room / home office U-shaped 2mm FS Terminus to Fiddle Yard, but if I remember correctly that was for a previous abode so no longer applies anyway, Keith.

Ultra-minimum radius narrow gauge layouts do get built, so my suggestion would be to do a bit of experimenting to see what it might look like, and what runs. Modified couplings are often cited as a necessity in these circumstances, something to bear in mind. While the layouts I’m thinking of are well made and fun to watch, making them look realistic (instead of toy like) can be the challenge. I guess one key question is to determine which is the top priority: 1. Something (anything) to use the shelf? Or… 2. I really want a Narrow Gauge Layout. If it won’t fit the shelf, I’ll modify the shelf, or build it for elsewhere. Or… 3. I’d like a Narrow Gauge layout, but only if I can get a continuous run on my shelf. The other key question is what happens to the things on the shelf - my first thought would be tidy it up: Paint keeps better in tins rather than boxes, for lots of reasons. Not sure what a half-printed part is? (I’d guess 3D printed, but what is the other half…?) Just some thoughts, Keith.

All I can say is: “Well done!” for tackling sleeper spacing. A few years ago I tried it on a Micro-Layout (OO) to use up some old Setrack: I probably only had to do three or four yards’ worth - but that was enough to put me off for life! One day I’d be curious to try making some track, but unless or until that day comes around I’ll live with the compromises in commercial track, Keith.

Probably