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Poggy1165

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  • Location
    North of Annesley Junction (Near Manchester, actually.)
  • Interests
    The Great Central Railway, pre 1923.
    (Most other railways are of interest too, particularly if they have steam engines, but I can't model them all.)
    Bury Corporation Tramways 1903-1949
    My other great interest is the middle ages, especially England and Wales in the 14th/15th century.
    I write historical novels. Two have been published.
    I also enjoy walking, beer and eating out. Sadly I can no longer walk as far as I did or drink as much as I should like.

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  1. I am ridiculously tempted by City of Leicester and the Bulleid MN, given that I don't have a 4mm layout. I don't know whether it's fondness for the prototype or nostalgia for the Hornby-Dublo boxes that is doing this to me.
  2. If Bellerophon was wheeled out in 7mm scale I would not be able to resist. Most of the others are too modern for me!
  3. The Group is brand new and "feeling its way." It therefore needs funding. Not everything can be free. How it develops is up to the members. That in itself is a novelty worth paying for. I am in so many societies I lose count, none has so small a fee as £5. Some are more like the £30 quid mark.
  4. The corners of plastic wagon kits are a problem. They almost invariably need fettling to look right and it's very easy not to get it 100% right. For opens, it would be a big improvement if the kit makers would make the corners plain and provide an etched corner plate that could be folded. This would cover many sins. Although it would not resolve the end door end, obviously. These can be just as awkward as the others.
  5. I suppose a lot would depend on individual decisions: 1. You could have the coal delivered in your own wagon. (Whether owned or hired matters little to a modeller.) 2. You could have the coal delivered in a wagon owned by your coal factor/wholesaler. 3. You could have the coal delivered in a colliery wagon. 4. You could have the coal delivered in a railway wagon - although in that case the choice might not be yours but the suppliers. 5. You could have the coal delivered in a wagon on short-term hire from a wagon owner. (As 4.) Cost would be one factor and wagon av
  6. I agree, most coal came in PO wagons. Some railway companies had few coal wagons, and in some cases these were mainly for loco coal. The GW is a good example. The GC is an example of a company with a good stock of coal wagons (including some on hire) so this is not quite an absolute rule. Even so their total was dwarfed by the number of PO wagons on its lines. The NER was. of course, exceptional in conveying most coal traffic in its own wagons, but the NER was very rich and could afford the capital costs involved in providing wagons for a vast traffic.
  7. The Haydock Coal wagon is the best model I have ever seen of one of their vehicles - by some way - and the only one I have ever seen in the correct pre-group livery. Haydock Colliery (Richard Evans and Co) is particularly interesting to me, as they had an extensive railway system of their own (linked to the LNWR and GC) and a whole fleet of fairly intriguing locos. Some of which they built themselves. From memory - I would need to check to be 100% - this is the company that had running powers over parts of the GC St Helens branch, not least because the said branch "took
  8. The other traffic that occurred to me was hops. Breweries need hops and Kent and Sussex are/were principal sources. Any town with a brewery (and they used to be legion) would need hops - I think they grow in Hereford/Worcestershire but most came from the south.
  9. Just a bit of completely random data. I looking at a photo of Barnby Dun, near Doncaster,dated 1912. There is a line of wagons shown, the only definitely identifiable one is a LBSC round ended open. A few wagons down is another round ended open, which is not identifiable, but which I suspect to be SECR. It is certainly from one of the southern companies. Now, if I was modellling Barnby Dun in 1912 I don't think a LBSC or SECR wagon would be my first priority. But there you are. It would be interesting to know what traffic they carried to this area (the LBSC wagon is empty and
  10. There seem to have been cases where passenger receipts were pooled. For example, if you had a ticket from Manchester to Stalybridge issued by the LNWR, L&Y or GC, you could return by either route. This strongly implies to me that the receipts for this traffic must have been pooled in some agreed ratio. The same was true of the GC and L&Y routes to Oldham. Similarly, if you had a ticket from Manchester to Stockport (Tiviot Dale) you could return by a GC train to London Road or a Midland train to Central. (Source 1903 GCR timetable note.) OTOH right up until Grouping the GN w
  11. I am looking forward to the book on GCR carriages which John Quick has in preparation. I suspect it will answer many questions on the subject. All? Never.
  12. It strikes me that the M.K&W would have been much more useful to the NSR than anyone else. I have always wondered what prospects the MS&L saw in it. Macclesfield was right at the end of its (joint) branch from Marple - it would be crazy to route Knutsford or Warrington traffic that way. Or at a minimum, very circuitous. The MS&L/GC got behind some fairly ambitious schemes, most of which came to nothing, but I have never seen the logic behind this one at all. At least not from their POV.
  13. I can give you a specific example. The GCR lost a case against the L&Y. It wanted to exchange Yorkshire coal traffic at Philips Park (Manchester) but the court ruled the traffic had to be exchanged at either Penistone or Barnsley. The GCR got its thinking cap on. It put in a western spur from the O&AGBJ at Ashton Moss making a connection to the L&Y, and a set of exchange sidings were provided. Henceforward (this was 1911) the traffic was exchanged at Ashton Moss and this continued certainly up to the electrified era, as the OA&GB was electrified that far. The traffi
  14. The GN certainly had a one third share in the CLC, but, unlike the Midland and GC, did not operate its own trains over it. (With the pedantic exception below.) It had, of course, a one third interest in CLC goods profits, and I think it's reasonable to assume a fair bit of traffic was exchanged with CLC. It did shed some shunters at Trafford Park for its huge Goods Warehouse which was adjacent to Central and naturally stood on a twig of its own metals. It reached Manchester (for goods purposes) over both GC and Midland routes, a practice which continued into the Grouping era - perh
  15. I would suggest the LNWR demurrage train to Carlisle is reasonable evidence. This was cited in an article by a LNWR driver who actually worked the trains in question. But in addition, Manchester was served by the LNWR, L&Y, Midland, GCR, GNR, CLC, and Great Western. That is, all these companies ran trains into it. The GN and GW did not enjoy their own metals in the area. GN trains came in by both MR and GC routes. GW trains came in mainly by the LNWR, but some GW wagons will certainly have come via the GC as I will explain in a minute. So that's at least seven lots of wagons co
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