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Karhedron

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  1. I have finally succumbed and placed an order for an NSE liveried unit. Well, I need something to run alongside the 313 that's coming along behind it don't I?
  2. I am not sure in the specific case of Barnsley. I have not found any records of it dispatching milk to London. It is a fairly urban area and most dispatching creameries tended to be located in rural areas, close to where the milk was produced. In 1928, the site was noted as being a corn mill and jam factory. It could have been milk for consumption in Barnsley but milk tanks were generally dispatched to London on a large scale. However milk tanks to smaller bottling plants outside the Capital did happen occasionally. This happened particularly during the war when the large population of evacuees turned the normal logistics of milk transportation somewhat upside-down. The other possibility is that milk arriving at Summer Lane could be a raw ingredient for something being produced on the site. Condensed milk, butterscotch and malted milk were all notable products that required a large amount of raw milk in on a regular basis and I am sure there were others. Given its location, I have no difficulty believing Summer Lane was receiving milk inwards rather than dispatching it south. However more information would be helpful in working out what the milk was used for on arrival. Is the photograph you mention dates?
  3. If you are looking for compact, urban freight (or at least NPCCS) then a milk bottling plant might be a good call. Several were close to stations, notably the IMS plant at Marylebone. Dapol offer O Gauge milk tanks in a variety of liveries making this an easy type of traffic to include.
  4. I have seen Newford in the flesh and I love it but it you need a house to fit a layout like that. One option if you want to add a little more scope for goods is something based in Iain Rice's "Harestone". This loses the 3rd platform for a small goods yard and a more suburban feel rather than a city-center layout.
  5. Yup. The tanks were unloaded at the platform and the milk piped down under the arches and across the road to the bottling plant.
  6. That's right. From May 1969, Guards were allowed to travel in the rear cab of diesels if the train was fully fitted (as milk trains were). Brake vehicles in milk trains vanish pretty promptly at this date. There were occasional exceptions. The one that springs to mind is the Unigate milk on the SR. This was often run to Waterloo and then batches of tanks were worked back to be unloaded at Vauxhall by the station pilot. This was usually a Class 09 shunter which only had 1 cab so you could sometimes see a milk train still with a full brake for quite a while after the regulations changed simply as there was no rear cab for the guard to ride in.
  7. Assuming you are talking about the livery I am thinking of, that is the post-war United Dairies livery. You can see a couple of them here at Halesworth in the late 40s when nearly new mixed in with some older, dirtier example. United Dairies had a huge range of liveries, sometimes it seemed like every batch of tankers built for them was painted in a different version of their livery.
  8. In the real world, sadly not. The 7Fs were withdrawn by 1964. Bason Bridge milk only started running via the WR in 1966 and was in the hands of diesels (normally Hymeks but other classes did turn up). However if you are running your own "what if" scenario, maybe you could say that milk from Bason Bridge started running via the WR after nationalisation. The Wellington milk train ran via Taunton and Puxton until the early 60s and could have picked up tanks from such a flow. All Rule 1 of course but it might be plausible with a bit of a leap of imagination.
  9. There was a link with GWR at Highbridge. Milk from Bason Bridge was worked onto the WR and thence via Taunton using this link between the withdrawal of passenger services in 1966 until the siding serving the creamery was finally closed in 1972.
  10. Usually this happened at Templecombe. The SR ran milk trains from a couple of starting points including Torrington and Yeovil, both of which normally stopped at Templecombe to pick up tanks. In times of peak production, extra tanks would sometimes be attached to the following service from Sidmouth Junction. Milk handling on the Southern is a bit of a complex subject as the SR was particularly fond of attaching milk tanks to the rear of passenger services where possible. This meant that tanks would often only be formed into dedicated trains at Templecombe, Yeovil or even Salisbury for the final run into London. The SR seemed to prefer efficiency over simplicity and it was not uncommon for tanks to be attached to multiple trains as they made their way towards London. All this started to change when the WR took over the S&D as well as the SR lines west of Exeter.
  11. A look at other heritage railways with a NR connection might be informative. Both the Swanage railway and the Watercress Line have connections to NR which would allow through trains to be run relatively easily but this does not happen on a regular basis. Swanage has a population of nearly 10,000 while Four Marks and New Alresford on the Watercress line have populations of around 5000 each. Ashburton has a population of around 4000 meaning I suspect that the economics would make any re-connection unfeasible.
  12. Fascinating. Twin Spires seems to have been something of a last-gasp by the MMB. As far as I can tell, it was the last rail-served dairy they constructed. Possibly the last rail-served dairy to be built in the country. The MMB had somewhat lost faith with BR after the ASLEF strike in 1955 and were starting to encourage dairy companies to switch to road transport where feasible. The notes I have suggest the primary purpose of Twin Spires was as a bottling plant to serve the local area with raw milk coming in by rail from the west side of the country. More occasionally it dispatched milk to London (probably excess summer production). Processing milk to send back to Dumfries seems strange but there must have been a reason for it. Perhaps demand at Dumfries was outstripping production capacity so they "outsourced" some of it to Bucksburn.
  13. Hmm, the plot thickens! The first batch of United Dairies 4-wheeled tanks were 2001-12 and had the shot wheelbase. The second batch were 2013-18 (diagram O.34) but I can't find any photos of them prior to rebuilding so I don't know what their original wheelbase was. Ironically 2016 has been preserved so searching the web for images just yields a lot of preserved shots. The curious thing is that the O.34s were built in 1931 at almost the same time that the GWR were building their first 6-wheeled tanks, the O.35s for West Park Dairy. By 1932, the next batch of United Dairies tanks were 6-wheelers (diagram O.39). It seems the O.34s were practically obsolete when they were built. I wonder if it was the GWR or the dairies who chose the wheel arrangement?
  14. On reflection I may be underestimating the amount of churn traffic that could have been loaded at stations prior to the introduction of the large creameries built to handle tanks. I have come across this shot of a down empties milk train in 1931 consisting mostly of assorted siphons (some of them looking quite elderly). No indication if this is for South Wales or the West Country but if you are looking for something to capture the feeling, this is pretty good. https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p120011231/hd60b3ac1#hd60b3ac1
  15. I don't have anything on Devon unfortunately. The closest I have is the Whitland milk train in 1938. This is made up of a mix of milk tanks, Siphon Gs and Siphon Js as well as 2 passenger brake vans. Working backwards in time, the proportion of tankers would have dropped to zero by 1927. A lot depends on the date as many of the creameries in Devon and Cornwall only opened in the 30s while others switched to tanks around this time. Here are some dates that may be of interest. Penzance (no record) St Erth Primrose dairy didn't open until after 1936 (I don't have a date but I know it was still a china clay works in that year). Dolcoath/Cambourne MMB creamery opened in 1937. Lostwithiel opened in 1932 Saltash Daws opened in 1932 Lifton opened in 1917, not sure when they started dispatching tanks Totnes Daws opened in 1932 Hemyock started dispatching milk to London in Victorian times and introduced tanks in 1932 So in summary, there would have been very little milk coming out of Cornwall prior to 1932 and only Hemyock sending significant amounts from Devon. Tanks would only have appeared from 1932 onwards. Prior to that it would have been Siphons, probably a mix of Siphon Gs with some older types mixed in.
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