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Showing results for 'Templot' in topics.
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Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
martin_wynne replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
@MarshLane Rich, you addressed your remarks directly to me in John's topic on RMweb, without quoting anything I had posted here to which you might be replying. If you wanted to ask me a question about Templot plug track, the place to do that is on the Templot Club forum. Or if you wanted to hear the opinions of everyone here experimenting with 3D track, there was no reason to mention me specifically. Martin. -
Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
MarshLane replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
Martin, Thanks for your reply. I do think there seems to be lot of hostility to the mere mention of your 3D project for anyone using anything but your words, my query was not intended to provoke such comments, merely ask for your views, if you had any. As for promoting, well I'll agree to disagree on that one, as different people will view things in different ways. I have no idea where this comes from @martin_wynne. Reading back on my post I believe I said "I wondered what your view was" and followed this up with "I'd be interested to hear your thoughts". Please tell me where I said it was your responsibility? My post was simply the result of a discussion between two friends which set me thinking, and given the way you've gone about 3D track work (for the avoidance of doubt any further mis-accuasions which is experimental and your own hobby project that others are welcome to join in) I was interested to hear your thoughts on longevity. Indeed, I stressed in my original post that the query was not criticism at all. I would have thought somebody asking, what to me seemed to be a very valid question, would have been a positive - perhaps the best answer was from @hayfield - thank you for that John, really useful thoughts. As with anything new, there are always unknowns in the mix. As I said I dont have any 3D experience or knowledge, so do feel that part of your comments shot down somebody for asking legitimate question. I have enjoyed and been very interested in following Hayfield's adventures with his 3D printer, and congratulate you on what you have achieved with your 3D track work and Templot - please Martin ... dont take in any other way than praise. Rich -
Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
martin_wynne replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
@MarshLane Under NO circumstances whatsoever am I promoting anything. Templot is my hobby, nothing more. Others are welcome to join in if they wish, or not if they don't. Martin. -
OO-SF tolerances and RTR wheel profiles
polybear replied to Captain Kernow's topic in Modelling musings & miscellany
Hi CK, I've just been skipping thru' your layout thread "Bethesda Sidings" in an attempt to try to understand what may be going on. Firstly, if I'm correct you mentioned the layout was built to "00 Finescale" track standards; this confuses me a bit because the DOGA 00 Finescale Track Standard has a Crossing Flangeway dimension of 1.0mm (the same as 00-sf) - however this requires a minimum B2B dimension of 14.8mm, meaning RTR Locos etc. would require adjustment. However, the DOGA Intermediate Standard states a CF of 1.2mm, with B2B of 14.4mm. Do you recall what dimensions you used for the 00 part of the layout? I suspect that constructing a BEF Checking Gauge would be most enlightening (all it takes is three short lengths of rail soldered to a scrap piece of copperclad board, using the appropriate 00-sf track gauges); it may well be that the offending locos just require a very slight adjustment of their B2B settings in order to play nicely. It should be remembered that one of the main attractions of 00-sf is compatibility with both Kit built wheels (Markits, Gibson etc.) as well as with most modern RTR locos and stock without the need to adjust RTR B2B dimensions from the normal 00 dimensions. Naturally if some manufacturers start shifting the goalposts with regards to wheel profiles then this may well have an effect. Finally, you mention that the Turnout causing problems is an A5; I generated one in Templot and the radius comes out at 597mm. 00-sf is basically EM minus 2mm, meaning the "rules" for EM apply to 00-sf as well; the suggested minimum radius for 00-sf is 750mm on Templot (though this isn't by any means set in stone). I did note that all the Locos mentioned on your layout thread that had issues were short wheelbase ones though, perhaps with the exception of the Manor - it's not as though you were having issues with Pacifics, 9F's etc. I have a test board (basically a Y-shape) using a B7 (might be B8) turnout (I'm unsure of the radius, but it won't be less than 750mm anywhere) - and as yet I've yet to encounter any Loco that would fail to go thru' it smoothly (and that includes a kit built 9F where the seller said he was only parting with it because it couldn't cope with the curves on his 00 Layout). HTH Brian p.s. Very nice Layout, by the way ......must have a read thru' the fifty pages...... -
Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
martin_wynne replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
Yes, for a B-7 turnout in P4 the total cost of resin chairs and FDM printed base is about 80p. Slightly less for 00 and EM. But please bear in mind that Templot plug track is simply my experimental hobby project. We are still a long way from a fully usable system. For example only yesterday from John's post here I realised that a modification to the switch rail jigs would be beneficial. So far it is possible to build ordinary bullhead turnouts and crossovers of any gauge or scale, but for more complex formations such as tandem turnouts, diamonds and slips I have not yet done the required chairs. I'm hoping to do some of them early in the New Year. There are also many other unfinished loose ends in the project, and some current Templot functions may change before we are done. So far only REA chairs are done. Hopefully GWR chairs will follow in due course. Flat-bottom remains in the sunny uplands far away as far as Templot is concerned. But maybe not if someone else comes along with a similar system? Anyone? Martin. -
Well said, Puppers. If The Bear keeps up this overly financially prudent (aka “tight fisted”) approach to life, when he heads to that great ice-floe in the sky, there will be oodles of cash in the Beary Bank Account, most of which (in the absence of relatives) will end up in the hands of government. Who, undoubtedly, will spend it on things our dear @polybear would not approve of. But if the bear wants to shiver in his shed, as his numb paws fumble at Templot, happy in the knowledge that the money he saves will, upon his demise, go to fund “decolonising patriarchal railways through the medium of dance”, then so be it. I for one will ensure that (after making a very, very generous air-tight, government-proof, provision for Mrs iD and doggies), I die penniless: the last few pounds going on a superb single malt whisky that I will finish before shuffling off this mortal coil. D****d if I’m going to leave anything to the Government!
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Morning! Easy, come back Friday morning. Going down was a nightmare as the M1 appeared to be closed from J13 to J10 and solid, black on Traffic England. It took an HOUR for us to use the alternative route (A6) and get from one side of Luton to the other. It was strange (and rather nice) when we finally managed to get on at J10. Look in the rear view mirror and there was absolutely nothing at all to see! My emphasis but that statement nails it. Yes, EV's are a solution (they have been for ~100 years in various forms) but they aren't, certainly in their present battery form, the UNIVERSAL solution that the muppets would have us believe because neither the vehicle themselves, their use-cycles or the infrastructure to support them are suitable. Shades of the tragic accident to Concorde all those years ago. Not that I'm comparing that fabulous, iconic aeroplane with Musk's electric driving box! Keep the heat on Bear, it's only money and you can't take it with you. Nothing more miserable than being persistently cold and/or hungry. So I suggest; heating on, a big bowl of curly fries all finished off with a big hunk of LDC as you consider Templot Plan #284B. It's a bimble if the journey has no specified destination or purpose, a chug if "you are going somewhere for something". While we are on the subject, a chug maybe in the offing for tomorrow for breakfast although the destination is still TBD. Of course, if the vehicle is a mere youngster (say ~50 years old) and capable of a bit of speed then both a bimble and a chug can become a thrash. I disagree and would suggest that the distinction is very clear; petrol and diesel are merely fuels and will not combust on their own unless something else provides the conditions for them to do so (elevated temperature above flash points, sparks etc). Lithium batteries in particular are very susceptible to spontaneous combustion due to latent damage whether that be from actual physical damage, damage through use brought about through incorrect charging/discharging or their own degradation through use. I've got a little test for us. I'll go and stick a screwdriver through the side of a tank of diesel, you can stick a screw driver into the side of a Lithium battery. Good luck .... Of course, once a vehicle is on fire the other combustible material in it cares not a jot as to "where the flame came from that set fire to it" so it is entirely irrelevant IMVHO. Another excellent and spot on statement @jamie92208. This is the reason why the various "early scrappage" schemes are a total nonsense and a cynical person such as myself would suggest that they are intended to a) keep the manufactures and the economy going and b) mislead the unthinking into believing they are saving the planet. They are not, the carbon cost has already been spent and in most cases the actual benefit in energy reduction in use (i.e. the difference between old and new) will never outweigh the carbon cost of the completely new item. Yes, scrap and re-cycle when the item is truly at end of life but don't try justifying your (that's the Royal your not you Jamie!) new car by claiming you are saving the planet when there is plenty of life left in the old one. I'll jump off my soapbox now. ION The quiet before the storm. Junior Puppers and the Junior Junior Puppers are coming over later for dinner. I believe Santa maybe parading down the road after nightfall on the back of an old farm trailer later so that will cause much excitement and a sudden loss of all my loose change when a yellow bucket gets shoved through the front door by on e of Santa's helpers. I had an invitation to go on a chug over to Hitchin this morning. I declined because it doesn't look very inspiring out there today. Perhaps I'll do some more fiddling with Jupiter. TTFN
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The maths around buying traditional jigs against buying a filament printer soon favour the latter, aside from track bases and then other useful bits. Going from Templot to print without the angst of hoping your own drawing is watertight and viable is a real plus in moving to new technology. Thank you John (plus James and Martin) for exploring this development.
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Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
martin_wynne replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
Hi John, I think you had the rail too far forward in the jig. If you trim it here with sharp flush cutters, I think you will have a good blade, after fettling it in position: For an "A" size blade, the planing length from the tip to where the filing runs out should be 22mm in 4mm/ft scale. The filing should run out at the same place on the front as on the back. _________________ While still in the back jig, mark the rail at 20mm from the end of the jig. This will be the position of the finished blade tip. After removing it from the jig, you may want to pre-trim it at the 20mm mark using sharp flush cutters (e.g. as supplied with the Kingroon printer). When inserting it in the front jig, the trimmed end should again be at 20mm from the end of the jig. At that point the end of the rail foot should be just flush with the filing face, so that it doesn't get filed. If not you can move the rail forward or back a little until it is -- this is due to normal variations in FDM printing. At that business end of the jig the bolt should be barely tight (almost loose), otherwise the rail will be pushed away from the jig and over-filed. Tighten the bolt at the other end fully to prevent the rail moving. After filing, the blade should come to a sharp knife edge at the tip, with the rail foot barely touched. Some care is needed in locating the rail in the jig to achieve this. If filing the back has caused the filed end to curl slightly, it needs to be straightened to lie flush in the front jig. The default filing angle for the front jigs is 17.5 degrees. If you find with your rail section that you are filing too much of the rail foot, the angle can be increased in the Templot settings and another jig made. There is more to these jigs than meets the eye, and some practice is needed. 🙂 Full jig instructions: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/using-the-templot-rail-filing-jigs.728/ cheers, Martin.
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Hayfields turnout workbench
martin_wynne replied to hayfield's topic in Permanent Way, Signalling & Infrastructure
Hi John, The point you didn't make is that the front jigs are designed to accept blades which have first been filed on the back in a back filing jig (of the same switch size). While still in the back jig, mark the rail at 20mm from the end of the jig. This will be the position of the finished blade tip. After removing it from the jig, you may want to pre-trim it at the 20mm mark using sharp flush cutters (e.g. as supplied with the Kingroon printer). When inserting it in the front jig, the trimmed end should again be at 20mm from the end of the jig. At that point the end of the rail foot should be just flush with the filing face, so that it doesn't get filed. If not you can move the rail forward or back a little until it is -- this is due to normal variations in FDM printing. At that business end of the jig the bolt should be barely tight (almost loose), otherwise the rail will be pushed away from the jig and over-filed. Tighten the bolt at the other end fully to prevent the rail moving. After filing, the blade should come to a sharp knife edge at the tip, with the rail foot barely touched. Some care is needed in locating the rail in the jig to achieve this. If filing the back has caused the filed end to curl slightly, it needs to be straightened to lie flush in the front jig. The default filing angle for the front jigs is 17.5 degrees. If you find with your rail section that you are filing too much of the rail foot, the angle can be increased in the Templot settings and another jig made. There is more to these jigs than meets the eye, and some practice is needed. 🙂 Full jig instructions: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/using-the-templot-rail-filing-jigs.728/ cheers, Martin. -
Turnouts are left hand or right hand. I've recently replaced a hand-built double slip with a Finetrax kit 00sf, the spacing depends on your track centres. Wayne allows a lot of extra rail so you can cut them to length and add or remove sleepers as required. I've had no trouble with the double slip at all, even continental stock runs through it as well as locos with Gibson and Ultrascale wheels. Remember if you're doing a curved crossover you need 2 point kits of the same hand. simply bend the kits on the Templot template. the effect ooks far better than the Peco idea of using a left hand and right hand point. Because the model is based on the prototype, the radius is unlikely to go below a set parameter on the Templot template. On Template set your main radius, make double track with your set centres, insert turnout in curve, roll to desired position, then make crossover. Easy once you know how. -
Yes, you can change a lot of things although I not sure about spacing. It's much simpler to just use a different scale and let Templot do all the work, particularly for turnouts. There is a preset for that scale. I don't remember what it's called.
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Hi all, Insofar as the 00-sf single and double slips are concerned, if I started with a B-7 Turnout in Templot and then simple convert this to a single/double slip then will the resulting template generated be the same as the British Finescale Kit? The reason I ask is there seems to be a very slight difference in length between the Templot Template and the template shown on the BF website. The reason I ask is purely for the purposes of generating a layout plan using Templot - where the appropriate kit could be used without any issue. Also, is a B-7 Turnout suitable for use with both large RTR and Kitbuilt** Locos without issue (e.g. too sharp/tight etc.)? (** I realise that sideplay on the wheelsets also has a bearing here). Many thanks, Brian
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Soggy Morning! My main concern is the Pacemaker. If I go all funny I'll know what to blame! ION I've been trying to rationalise all my back-up drives; making sure I've got duplicates of everything important (blimey HOW MANY! photos are in the photos folder), and the same with docs and vids and then theres the "Special Interest" folders to sort which seem to grow exponentially with all the various astrophoto processing apps that I've been using lately. I've been reviewing each astro video or sequence of images and weeding out as much of the stuff as possible whilst not chucking away anything that with improving processing skills might yield something of interest later on. I've been quite savage with the "intermediate workings" stuff on the basis of I can't necessarily work out what it is and as long as I've got the source material I can probably get better results now next time. Whilst ploughing through long forgotten folders I came across these 3 photos. They may be of interest to @Barry O if no one else as they are from some of my very early aerial photography experiments. A cheap (£17 IIRC), automatic camera from Dixons, strapped to the side of a large trainer type R/C aircraft with a servo operating the shutter release. Flown from the Bragbury End sports field which was owned and operated as the GE Sports & Social club until it was seen as an unnecessary expense and extravagance and disposed of making the all of the sections including the model flying section homeless*. They were taken around 1996 I believe. Those experiments then led onto downlinking live video, way before it became common place with the drones of today, and culminated in live "In cockpit views" with a pan and tilt video system in a 1/4 scale Sopwith Pup at first followed by a 1/3 scale version. Imagery from which was used in a BBC documentary marking the Centenary of WW1 and a the 50th anniversary of a previous WW1 documentary that featured surviving (at the time) pilots. Hence the soubriquet PupCam. * We went on to bigger and much better things as an independent club, re-branded as the Knebworth Model Flying Club using a field belonging to the Knebworth estate. There's still a very, very, very long way to go with the process and I really must come up with a "proper" back-up regime (and no, the answer is not the Cloud before anyone mentions it). I went for another nice little run on the RD yesterday but unfortunately by the time the shopping had been done I'd missed the best of the weather. By the time I got out it was decidedly dreary but good fun nevertheless. Question for @polybear : Does Templot support designs for Brio train sets? Asking for a friend grandson. This afternoon sees an appointment at the hospital when they rest the "Giant Polo connected to a laptop" on my chest and start talking to the embedded Arduino. Hopefully all will be good and the batteries will be in a good state of charge 🤞 TTFN
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Templot does alter the length of sleepers for 00 & 00-sf to reduce the effect of being under-gauge; the sleepers are 32mm (8ft) instead of 34mm (8ft 6"). You can adjust these lengths to whatever you like though. Sleeper/Timber widths can also be adjusted, as can spacing (I think).
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Templot also allows you to discover what is - and more importantly what isn't - possible in the space available. You might not always like the answer though.......(ask a Bear how he knows......) I very much suspect that Beartown might well end up as a model railway with scenery; the latter is nicer but if it's no fun to play with then, well, it's no fun.....
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A certain bear known to sh** in these woods also has experience with Templot. Edit: Just to add that Templot it lets you use any scale you want to and any gauge independently of the scale. That means the components that make up the track can be produced to a different scale from the stuff that runs on it.
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Having gone through the pain of learning Templot I would go for building your own points so that the geometry fits what you want to do. Points can be slid along track on screen unil they are just in the right place. It works a lot better than being constrained by fixed geometry. You can even tie your building outlines to the track,using a tool called shove timbers IIRC so that if you then alter the layout the building stays in the right relationship to the track. That's how I sorted the platform canopies on Green Ayre. Good luck and if you do start I'm only an email away. Jamie
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Ask Martin Wynne on the Templot Club....he'll know: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php
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Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
martin_wynne replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
@figworthy Hi Adrian, Templot can show you the total length of timbers and sleepers. After making some test 3D prints you should be able to calculate the numbers you want. I have no plans to add such calculations to Templot. Just to add that Templot is not a software product. It is my private hobby interest. Everyone is welcome to share it if they wish. Or not, if they don't like it. cheers, Martin. -
Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
figworthy replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
I note the comment about this still being experimental. Is it / will it be possible to get Templot to give me at least an estimate of how much filament and resin (or rail) I would need to either produce a section of track (plain or turnout), or even the whole plan ? rather than having to wait until I get to the stage of feeding parts into the slicing programs. Thanks Adrian -
Hayfields turnout workbench
hayfield replied to hayfield's topic in Permanent Way, Signalling & Infrastructure
Jol Sorry for my rushed answer, but along with British finescale kits Templot Plug Track system is bringing a whole new choice to the average railway modeler. Track building is seen by some as a black art needing specialized skills, expensive tools and costly parts. Even finescale RTR turnouts cost a kings ransom Now Joe public who models alone has access to finescale products which are relatively easy to build and can be very inexpensive For the modeler who wants finer flangeways British Finescale produce easy to build 00SF kits, for the more adventurous EM and P4 kits are available Templot plug trach takes it much further as you can have bespoke trackwork with an easy to build track building method Yes you are right to bring up costs and for most buying two printers may be out of the question, but why not find a group of like minder modelers and spread the cost between you With a C&L classic kit costing £48 ( no preformed crossings or switch blades) or a Peco bullhead turnout between £30 and £40 anyone building a layout is in for a few hundred £'s. Excluding the rail using the plug track system for a standard turnout uses about a £1 worth of resin and filament. The end product as I have said is up with the quality you would expect from top builders, But the system is far more flexible than that, the builder can use it in many ways. I have just printed a 0-16.5 track base for about 50p I will glue and pin code 100 fb rail to it. Its a bit more involved than the plug track system but I have a bespoke turnout different from anything out there, just about using a bit of new tech and some older methods -
Hayfields turnout workbench
hayfield replied to hayfield's topic in Permanent Way, Signalling & Infrastructure
The first issue I have found is with the switch rail jigs, and I am not alone in this, many others have reported this The Vee jigs have a benefit of being able to hold the rails in position whilst soldering. There is no need to solder vees together in plug track, its a push fit which is far easier Here by lies the problem, most modelers do not have access to these jigs, If they do buy them a set will cost £120. Restricted angles available Templot jigs as far as the switch rails are concerned are far easier to use let alone very much cheaper and in my opinion produce a better result I have spent half of that and the cost saving if you need a few turnouts and crossings will be soon repaid, technology has moved on and newer machines are always improving You are using a method of ply and rivet, followed using plastic chairs. I have seen a P4/EM gauge letter press punch with accessories sell for upwards of £150, that's not before you buy a set of gauges (at least £40 ) and the cost of plastic parts are going through the roof. If you are not using ply and rivet you face the cost of buying a pre made common crossings or face the problem of making them. But stop and think, it is far more likely someone knows a person with a 3D printer, cost argument goes out of the window. or a few can share the cost between them, or a club investment I did have all the misgivings you have and I can see where you are coming from, it may not suite you, but there is a whole realm of modelers out there who do not have your skills, for them its perfect Keep up the good work you building skills are encouraging others to follow suite -
Hayfields turnout workbench
martin_wynne replied to hayfield's topic in Permanent Way, Signalling & Infrastructure
The plastic is toughened PLA. The file skids over the surface and barely harms the jig. The jigs are good for several dozen rails or more. See the jig instructions: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/using-the-templot-rail-filing-jigs.728/ Martin. -
Hayfields turnout workbench
Jol Wilkinson replied to hayfield's topic in Permanent Way, Signalling & Infrastructure
Martin, no CAD skill needed with Templot generated files as you say. However, if you buy the two 3D printers needed then it would be pointless not to use them for other aspects of you model building activities, hence the "need" to learn how to design in 3D software. John, no doubt there are benefits to using Martin's jigs which the older designs can't provide as they had to be manufactured in a different way, probably forty or so years ago. I haven't found them too difficult to use and have been able to produce the P4 points for my layout (twenty nine plus a single slip) that have worked well and been reliable. I was able to use jigs owned by my local S4 Area Group, which have seen service with a number of modellers over the years. However, before that, I did build points without the use of filing jigs. Yes, you can obtain files for other products to use with your 3D printers but as is often the case, there will be things that aren't available if you want to model a particular railway, location or period in time. I have looked at the cost of 3D printers and to get a couple of the ones that are often recommended as being good beginners models would cost about £500. No doubt someone will challenge me on that but I have found that, where modelling tools are concerned, it is false economy to not buy good quality. However, as I have built the track that I need for my layout and am probably in that situation of SELE (stock exceeds life expectation) with the unbuilt kits I own I have little incentive to get into 3D design and printing. Don't however think that I am model railway Luddite, I have used a London Road Models RSU since they were introduced, have used laser cutting for my own designs of buildings and produced etched items for my own projects where practical. I was also a reasonably early user of Martin's Templot, in the days when you had to buy a license to use it. Jol
