Locomotion Models announce D8000 and King George V models

[Ian Hargrave]

Looks superb. And I like the way Hornby has dealt with the front pony truck and the NEM coupling pocket. Pity Bachmann didn't do something similar for the Modified Hall.

 

OK.....but then why have a front coupling pocket in any case ? Is it really necessary ? The majority of punters will say it is,I suppose.But I never saw a King haul tender first.....not to say that they didn't of course.Just a thought and no more than that and it won't stop me from being an enthusiastic buyer.

The gloss finish is inspirational and seems to have become a Locomotion hallmark....which one of you came up with that idea ? Heljan's efforts with gloss are pretty successful too,despite misgivings,so it's good to rethink paint finishes in this way.King George V is a head turner in every way and Locomotion's is almost certain to be first past the post....which gives them the upper hand with sales.

[Tom F]

Wowzers !

Hornby upping their game in response to DJ Models entrance ?

 

Hornby must be time travellers then, seen as they were at the CAD stage when the DJ Models King was announced. 

 

Looks very nice, top work Hornby. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by 9793

[9402 Fredrick]

Well done!

 

I saw the pre production sample. Even though it still needed a few tweaks it looked fantastic. I think you will love it!

I'm a fan of various locomotives, plus if I get tge Hornby S15s aswell, I'll have 3 different 4-6-0s, all 3 made by Hornby, plus I can compare it to the DJM one when I get mine from Steam later on to make a comparison. I am impressed with Hornby right now on how this model looks.

[MikeParkin65]

OK.....but then why have a front coupling pocket in any case ? Is it really necessary ? The majority of punters will say it is,I suppose.But I never saw a King haul tender first.....not to say that they didn't of course

Agree in many ways but I use the front coupling for when locos are being shunted dead, light engine movements and the like. And anyone modelling a preserved line will use the front coupling for 50% of trains. 6024 is evidence for that.

[gwrrob]

Agree in many ways but I use the front coupling for when locos are being shunted dead, light engine movements and the like. And anyone modelling a preserved line will use the front coupling for 50% of trains. 6024 is evidence for that.

I would suggest that quite a few modellers would have preferred a detailed front end which would look nicer when hauling coaches on their layouts.Hornby perhaps should have done both options.

[Hilux5972]

I would suggest that quite a few modellers would have preferred a detailed front end which would look nicer when hauling coaches on their layouts.Hornby perhaps should have done both options.

Given Hornbys new efforts at detailing, I would say the front coupling pocket will be removable to enable a bag of detailing parts to be fitted.

[LocomotionatShildon]

OK.....but then why have a front coupling pocket in any case ? Is it really necessary ? The majority of punters will say it is,I suppose.But I never saw a King haul tender first.....not to say that they didn't of course.Just a thought and no more than that and it won't stop me from being an enthusiastic buyer.

The gloss finish is inspirational and seems to have become a Locomotion hallmark....which one of you came up with that idea ? Heljan's efforts with gloss are pretty successful too,despite misgivings,so it's good to rethink paint finishes in this way.King George V is a head turner in every way and Locomotion's is almost certain to be first past the post....which gives them the upper hand with sales.

Thanks Ian..I would like to say the gloss finish was my idea but alas I cannot tell a lie! All I do is wrap em up !

[Ian Hargrave]

Thanks Ian..I would like to say the gloss finish was my idea but alas I cannot tell a lie! All I do is wrap em up !

 

Ah ! I see we must "gloss over " the identty of Agent Glitz At least Sandra you can say,as every parcel departs to its expectant proud owner...."It's a wrap.... ! "

[Guest spet0114]

The gloss finish is inspirational and seems to have become a Locomotion hallmark....

 

What do you base this on?  The high gloss finish only seems to be a feature of these two models and hasn't been replicated on earlier (C1) or later (D9002, DP1) models released/announced this year. If it becomes a 'hallmark' in later years, fair enough, but at the moment it's not representative of the majority of Locomotion's offerings, either current or historical.

 

As to inspirational, then I'd be more inclined to agree. The King looks 'out of this world' to borrow an Americanism and if the final model is as good as the preview will represent a step-change in UK RTR realism. The D8000 sample, on the other hand, looks no-where near as good. The basic model is acceptable (albeit not to the same standard of detail as the King), but the gloss finish looks unconvincing. I'm reminded of my own youthful failed attempts to get a good gloss finish with over-thick spraying and a somewhat 'speckly' final finish. Having recently bought one of the LT special editions (20189 in LT Red) in the standard Bachmann satin finish, I'd much rather Locomotion had opted for their normal non-gloss finish if this sample is indicative of what we are going to receive.

 

All IMO, of course!

 

Cheers

Adrian

Edited August 22, 2015 by spet0114

[The Stationmaster]

Although some of the quality of the gloss finish (on the cab) on D8000 doesn't look quite right to me (the same can be said of the 'King' as well) these are obviously samples so I would discount any shortcomings in respect as far as the final production versions are concerned.

 

Which takes me to the important point - how many of us can actually remember what brand new Modernisation Scheme diesels looked like?  Simple answer - they looked like that, everything was new and shiny - from the bogies to the roof and from the buffer stocks at one end to the buffer stocks at the other end; they really did look like that.  So in that respect I see nothing at all wrong with having well applied gloss finish on D8000 in view of what it represents.

[Ian Hargrave]

What do you base this on?  The high gloss finish only seems to be a feature of these two models and hasn't been replicated on earlier (C1) or later (D9002, DP1) models released/announced this year. If it becomes a 'hallmark' in later years, fair enough, but at the moment it's not representative of the majority of Locomotion's offerings, either current or historical.

 

As to inspirational, then I'd be more inclined to agree. The King looks 'out of this world' to borrow an Americanism and if the final model is as good as the preview will represent a step-change in UK RTR realism. The D8000 sample, on the other hand, looks no-where near as good. The basic model is acceptable (albeit not to the same standard of detail as the King), but the gloss finish looks unconvincing. I'm reminded of my own youthful failed attempts to get a good gloss finish with over-thick spraying and a somewhat 'speckly' final finish. Having recently bought one of the LT special editions (20189 in LT Red) in the standard Bachmann satin finish, I'd much rather Locomotion had opted for their normal non-gloss finish if this sample is indicative of what we are going to receive.

 

All IMO, of course!

 

Cheers

Adrian

The words I used are " seems to have become"....and I do not intend to spliit any historical hairs over this.I am well aware of the past,current and future models marketed under the umbrella of Locomotion Models thank you.The post was not intended as a forensic analysis rather merely as a casual observation..OK ?

[Guest spet0114]

Although some of the quality of the gloss finish (on the cab) on D8000 doesn't look quite right to me (the same can be said of the 'King' as well) these are obviously samples so I would discount any shortcomings in respect as far as the final production versions are concerned.

 

Which takes me to the important point - how many of us can actually remember what brand new Modernisation Scheme diesels looked like?  Simple answer - they looked like that, everything was new and shiny - from the bogies to the roof and from the buffer stocks at one end to the buffer stocks at the other end; they really did look like that.  So in that respect I see nothing at all wrong with having well applied gloss finish on D8000 in view of what it represents.

 

Agree that drawing too many conclusions from a preview sample is unwise, but equally unwise to tacitly assume that any/all obvious deficiencies will be automatically rectified. Far better surely to make a comment or two as Bachamann/Locomotion may take note?

 

Your next point raises an interesting question - what are the models of D8000 and KGV meant to represent? KGV fairly obviously intended to represent current condition - see 70s/80s era warning flashes on back of tender etc. D8000 a bit more uncertain - could be 'as built' or could be 'as currently preserved'. Quite hard for a layman like me to tell apart. My understanding is that the main thrust of the 'national collection in miniature' brand is to represent the current condition of the NRM fleet. In either case, a glossy finish equally valid for a museum exhibit as for a just-outshopped loco and the key thing is that the gloss finish be well applied. On the evidence of the two (admittedly) preview samples shown, Hornby have managed a well-applied gloss coat, Bachmann haven't. 

[Guest spet0114]

The words I used are " seems to have become"....and I do not intend to spliit any historical hairs over this.I am well aware of the past,current and future models marketed under the umbrella of Locomotion Models thank you.The post was not intended as a forensic analysis rather merely as a casual observation..OK ?

 

But that's my point -  what 'seems to have become' to you, doesn't 'seem to have become' to me, hence my request for some explanation of the basis of your statement. If you want to post a subjective viewpoint on a public forum, it's not unreasonable for other folk to enquire into your reasoning?

 

However, as you seem reluctant to discuss the matter, I'll not post further on it.

 

Cheers

Adrian

[The Stationmaster]

Agree that drawing too many conclusions from a preview sample is unwise, but equally unwise to tacitly assume that any/all obvious deficiencies will be automatically rectified. Far better surely to make a comment or two as Bachamann/Locomotion may take note?

 

Your next point raises an interesting question - what are the models of D8000 and KGV meant to represent? KGV fairly obviously intended to represent current condition - see 70s/80s era warning flashes on back of tender etc. D8000 a bit more uncertain - could be 'as built' or could be 'as currently preserved'. Quite hard for a layman like me to tell apart. My understanding is that the main thrust of the 'national collection in miniature' brand is to represent the current condition of the NRM fleet. In either case, a glossy finish equally valid for a museum exhibit as for a just-outshopped loco and the key thing is that the gloss finish be well applied. On the evidence of the two (admittedly) preview samples shown, Hornby have managed a well-applied gloss coat, Bachmann haven't. 

KGV is very clearly in 'as preserved' condition in that every detail (except in the cab) appears to accurately reflect the condition and livery it ran in while in preservation from the 'Return to Steam' tour onwards and as it is now in its museum state.  It is therefore inaccurate in detail for its condition at any time when it was in BR operational use.  Thus it fits 'National Collection in miniature' quite nicely.

Edited August 23, 2015 by The Stationmaster

[Andy Y]

Hornby have managed a well-applied gloss coat, Bachmann haven't. 

 

In the flesh I could argue the opposite.

[Fenman]

... Which takes me to the important point - how many of us can actually remember what brand new Modernisation Scheme diesels looked like?  Simple answer - they looked like that, everything was new and shiny - from the bogies to the roof and from the buffer stocks at one end to the buffer stocks at the other end; they really did look like that.  So in that respect I see nothing at all wrong with having well applied gloss finish on D8000 in view of what it represents.

 

There's a wonderful colour BTF film of the unveiling of D8000 at the Vulcan Foundry works, and it is rather startling to my eyes how shiny and buffed it was for the dignitaries to inspect.

 

The film is on one of the delightful BTF collections released by the BFI (and doubtless ripped and illegally placed on Youtube somewhere).

 

Paul

[Fairburn]

There's a wonderful colour BTF film of the unveiling of D8000 at the Vulcan Foundry works, and it is rather startling to my eyes how shiny and buffed it was for the dignitaries to inspect.

 

The film is on one of the delightful BTF collections released by the BFI (and doubtless ripped and illegally placed on Youtube somewhere).

 

Paul

There is footage on YouTube of DP1 hauling the great & the good to Vulcan Halt for this event.

[LocomotionatShildon]

The class 20 gloss finish is Ex DickKerr works.  I know these things although I have probably spelt it incorrectly!

[The Stationmaster]

ref warning flashes on KGV, those on model are the 19 60s into the 19 70s variant

And presumably as (still) on the real engine (actually on the tender only)?  Why would it have the more recent design of ohle warning signs?

[Guest spet0114]

The class 20 gloss finish is Ex DickKerr works.  I know these things although I have probably spelt it incorrectly!

 

It's an interesting development if the D8000 model is truly 'as built'.  The majority(*) of previous "NCIM" models have been 'as preserved' so might D8000 represent a new direction?  Is this part of Mr Kohler's 'development' of the brand?

 

Might we reasonably expect other 'as built' versions of National Collection subjects? If so, can I get my vote in for an 'as built' City of Truro, Flying Scotsman and 47 798?

 

Cheers

Adrian

 

 

 

* notable exceptions being 3440, 3251 and DP1 in ECML livery, though all these were offered alongside or shortly after their 'as preserved' counterparts.

Edited August 24, 2015 by spet0114

[31A]

The 'D8000' model seems to represent the loco as built, at least insofar as it has the original oval buffers whereas the preserved loco has round buffers (unless they've changed them since this picture was taken):

 

http://www.nrm.org.uk/OurCollection/LocomotivesAndRollingStock/CollectionItem.aspx?objid=1981-7002&cat=diesel&comp=All&ipp=12

[GNR Dave]

The gloss on the King does give it a real look of quality. If it was in GWR livery instead of BR, I'd definitely have one. (Nothing post 1950 for me !) As it is, I'm tempted to load the airbrush with Johnsons Klear and see if I can add a bit of extra quality so some of the locos in my collection.

[Guest spet0114]

The 'D8000' model seems to represent the loco as built, at least insofar as it has the original oval buffers whereas the preserved loco has round buffers (unless they've changed them since this picture was taken).

That pic was taken shortly after D8000 was preserved. At the time, the incongrueties between her livery and condition brought the NRM and BR in for considerable criticism. Since then, D8000 has had several modifications to return her to a state more consistent with her green livery. These include oval buffers, non-fluted bogie equalising beams and a working power unit. Today she looks somewhat different.

 

Edit: I might be wrong about the equalising beams.

Edited August 24, 2015 by spet0114

[JSpencer]

Although some of the quality of the gloss finish (on the cab) on D8000 doesn't look quite right to me (the same can be said of the 'King' as well) these are obviously samples so I would discount any shortcomings in respect as far as the final production versions are concerned.

 

Which takes me to the important point - how many of us can actually remember what brand new Modernisation Scheme diesels looked like?  Simple answer - they looked like that, everything was new and shiny - from the bogies to the roof and from the buffer stocks at one end to the buffer stocks at the other end; they really did look like that.  So in that respect I see nothing at all wrong with having well applied gloss finish on D8000 in view of what it represents.

Even an aged steam loco in pristine condition is mix of mat and gloss paint. All colour photos I have show boiler cladding as shiny and the smoke box a plain mat. I am somewhat surprised no one has done that yet.

 

Scroll down to King Edward II here for example: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69360-blog-steam-locomotives-in-profile-2-the-gwr-kings-the-gwr-kings/

[coachmann]

Even an aged steam loco in pristine condition is mix of mat and gloss paint. All colour photos I have show boiler cladding as shiny and the smoke box a plain mat. I am somewhat surprised no one has done that yet.

 

Scroll down to King Edward II here for example: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69360-blog-steam-locomotives-in-profile-2-the-gwr-kings-the-gwr-kings/

I routinely did this for 40 years or so. The smoke boxes are generally unclad and paint thereon is quickly affected by heat. Smokebox, cab roof and tender top always look better in mat black or slightly greyish-black. However, King George V is being represented as outshopped hence its glossy smokebox paint.

Edited August 25, 2015 by coachmann