RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 11, 2015 I am very surprised that my little comment has run to 4 pages of comment. The question of whether preserved railways are heritage or theme park is an interesting one. I'm sure that they are pretty quick to pull the heritage card when they apply for heritage lottery funding, so yes in my view they definitely have a moral obligation to try to be accurate within reason, or admit to being a theme park and stop asking for money from donations and heritage sources such as the lottery. I think the position most (the majority) are in is very simple - they have to operate as 'tourist attractions' in order to survive. Much of their income comes from correctly marketing the right kind of stuff in their gift shops and offering the right kind of catering at stations. The train ride - which is what many of their customers see it as - is almost an ancillary to a visit to the gift shop and finding a cuppa and something to eat. All of that is the business side of it and for some railways they recognise it as the only way they can remain in business. But on many railways - again no doubt the vast majority - there is also a level of volunteer support and support from the owners of locos and stock based on the line which means locos and stock are presented to visitors, either for them to look at or to travel in; the latter of course is what brings in the money. The latter perhaps to some extent brings in the visitors but many of them are more than happy with an 0-6-0T painted in pale blue while another section of them just want the nostalgia of travelling on a steam hauled train and being able to moan about the smuts getting in their eyes or damaging their clothes. All of which leaves the 'enthusiast' very much at the tail end of the business spectrum on many lines. Some lines try very hard to meet 'enthusiast' demands but often the practicalities of doing so can make it difficult and if the 'enthusiasts' aren't even teh icing on the financial cake why should the railway bother - especially if all it gets in return is brickbats. So ask yourself these simple questions in respect of a sample of your visits to a heritage type railway - 1. How much did you spend on your ticket to travel on the railway that day? 2. How much did you spend on refreshments etc bought at the railway that day? 3. How much did you spend in the railway's gift/souvenir/book/model shops that day? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyram Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 In response to the Stationmaster's comments. I would say families who want a day out provide more over the year in ticket sales and gift shop purchases than the railway enthusiast. I say that as a volunteer on another preserved line. The majority of such line's business is now families so that is what they target, through many child related events. As such railways have started to gear themselves to providing more attractions to keep people there for longer. A train ride will not just do that. But add in a model railway, a museum, decent catering ahd a kiddies play area and you are providing more than just a train ride. The museum element may educate, to some degree, what real working steam was like. But at the end of the day families won't care whether the loco matches the stock, is in correct livery or whether it is a standard 4 or a B12. The Severn Valley for instance rarely matches locks with rolling stock except on gala days. I visit this line three or four times per year and regularly have a GWR liveried loco or one of that origin hauling LMS Stanier or LNER teak coaches. Very few people complain. In addition, if our steam lines are to survive they have to cut their cloth accordingly. Does it make economic sense to put a coal guzzling Pacific on a five coach train? No. I wonder if the Std 4 is more economical than the B12 hence its use on the Quad Art set. Just a random and possibly inaccurate thought! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 But some Bulleid pacifics were allocated for a short while to Stratford. Wonder if a shedmaster ever coupled one up to a set of you-know-what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted July 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 11, 2015 Went down to Weybourne at lunch time,for some reason the quad set was out being hauled by a black five??? With regard to the 350 at sheringham, that is not authentic at all. It's far to clean and the paintwork both inside and out is far superior to when it was built!! It actually belongs to a very good friend of mine and he is obsessed with having it in mint condition, he has nearly finished a second one D3935 if I remember correctly. That is being done to the same spec as the other green one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted July 11, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 11, 2015 Standard 4, now a black 5. If that can't cope Shep will have to get the 9F out LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I think for the general public it does not matter whats on the front ,last Thursday I went to the K&SER with a group from my U3A only three of us were enthusiasts but everyone else went home very happy the train was just part of the day out .We were hauled by the Swedish tank and a well presented good sounding loco it was, the coaches were Mk1,s clean inside and out ,the staff were pleasant informed and happy the shop café were well praised by everyone,better value than National Trust café we went to later on.Also impressive were the vintage coaches and Pullmans at Tenterden, comment was made how tidy all the stations were and I noted that all the to be restored stock was sheeted and not an eyesore .Overall our party went home very happy with their train ride This railway has got the product well sussed and deserve to succeed and I wish them well with the extension thanks for a great day out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 But some Bulleid pacifics were allocated for a short while to Stratford. Wonder if a shedmaster ever coupled one up to a set of you-know-what? The Quad-Arts were used on the KGX suburban services, from where they moved to preservation. Not East Anglian at all. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Also impressive were the vintage coaches and Pullmans at Tenterden, comment was made how tidy all the stations were and I noted that all the to be restored stock was sheeted and not an eyesore . That's a very important point about tidiness.. We all know the reasons, but some (many?) stations on heritage lines seem to resemble a scrapyard in part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 The Quad-Arts were used on the KGX suburban services, from where they moved to preservation. Not East Anglian at all. Stewart The M&GN Society website would have us believe some were used on weekend summer specials to East Coast holiday resorts and that 3 sets were transferred to Sheffield for a brief period in 1966 before final withdrawal. I couldn't possibly argue with that as I'm sure they've done their homework and the fact remains that the Quad-Arts are certainly representative of the LNER and later the Eastern Region, if maybe not truly "East Anglian". In other words, they certainly seem more at home on the NNR than they would in Devon or Scotland. A bit like seeing a GW tank at Strathspey. Not quite right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 That's a very important point about tidiness.. We all know the reasons, but some (many?) stations on heritage lines seem to resemble a scrapyard in part. I think the NNR are lucky insofar as their "scrapyard" is at Weybourne which, quite frankly, is in the middle of a field in the middle of nowhere. First "point of contact" for most visitors is Sheringham station. That is right in the centre of town and usually looks very spick and span with little or no clutter. In all honesty, I very much doubt that a lot of folk pitch up at Weybourne and hop on a train from the mid point on the line. Enthusiasts, maybe... but certainly not Mum, Dad and 2.4... If Sheringham station is the "jewel in the crown" of the NNR, they are indeed lucky that their workshops are elsewhere on the line. That said, the maroon-painted Mk3 sleeper chocked in a siding at Sheringham right at the end of the public car park does look pretty odd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted July 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2015 'Stands back and throws a gallon of paraffin on the fire' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted July 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2015 'Stands back and throws a gallon of paraffin on the fire' Indeed - fancy putting an outer home signal in the wrong place. (Tim - it's a starter) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfsboy Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Cannay believe everyone is moaning about preservation lines .They are great and kids love em .Considering that" kids' will have to run them one day .I really do think many on here are losing the plot . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted July 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2015 I've seen a picture of quad sets at Skegness in the 30s with a GC B2 hauling them. I've never heard of any quads being transferred to Sheffield, seems odd as in the mid 60s there was a lot of surplus steel bodied stock. As for the mk3 at Sheringham, birth 15/16 was my home for a year in the mid 90s! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOCJACOB Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Agree the "moans" about preserved lines seem a tad harsh. Went to Didcot to see Santa, great few hours. Cousin loved it, I got to see stuff, Didcot made some money. My cousin didnt give a stuff was was running. I actually get to work/play at Lincolnshire Wolds and agree about presentation comment. Hence my part ofwork shed is kept reasonably tidy. Also we have an LNER Grain Wagon that was recently identified by the "camera carrying brigade" as a fish van. We then had a lovely very friendly chat and happiness abounded. My wife (puts up with my illness) and can now confidently identify items that have seen a cleaning rag recently, are painted and tidy, mid restoration or are escapees from a scrap yard. Her money is as good as mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I had two consecutive photos of the NNR in my Facebook stream last night. The first was of the Black 5 on the quad-art, with a comment saying that it wasn't the best loco*, the second was of a 18 month old boy with a big grin on his face, having his first steam train ride... *Edit, Tim Easter's photo linked above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Have suggested on the djm wish list thread that a set of quad arts would be much appreciated. We can then run them in whatever malapropiate way we wish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2015 Indeed - fancy putting an outer home signal in the wrong place. (Tim - it's a starter) I think (hope) he might mean the one just visible above the roof of the third coach (or rather its sighting board)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidnutter Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I think (hope) he might mean the one just visible above the roof of the third coach (or rather its sighting board)? Looks like the back side of a black sighting board on the signal above the third coach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 There was a suggestion a couple of pages back as to whether new owners should merely follow precedent and add their own livery. Leafing through an old album, I found this postcard dating from the late 70s, maybe early 80s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 To be honest, I'm not that fussed what runs the train, so long as the train in service has a steam loco on the front and in working order. 9/10 of those turning up to ride it are just people who want to ride behind a steam loco. Cue can of worms being opened..... Indeed - fancy putting an outer home signal in the wrong place. (Tim - it's a starter) Actually, we're both wrong - I've since realised that particular signal is actually the up section signal, since the starters are both behind me. It was late when I uploaded it and I was tired... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I actually get to work/play at Lincolnshire Wolds and agree about presentation comment. Hence my part ofwork shed is kept reasonably tidy. Also we have an LNER Grain Wagon that was recently identified by the "camera carrying brigade" as a fish van. We then had a lovely very friendly chat and happiness abounded. A friend of mine, who is a quiet member of this forum so may read this, has always said that the most important person at a preserved railway is the person who cleans the toilets. Quite right I would imagine. If the the important facilities are poor and/or disgusting, that will linger in the memory of a non-enthusiast far longer than the enjoyment gained from the train ride. If you look at the negative reviews received by railways on trip advisor, the operation is rarely criticised, and when it is it is usually an ill thought out rant by someone who didn't read the relevant literature. Catering, brusk treatment by staff and perceived lack of value seem to be the more frequent problems noted. Worth noting that none of the railways I have looked at on trip advisor have scored below 4 out of 5 starts, most coming in around 4.5 stars. To be honest, I'm not that fussed what runs the train, so long as the train in service has a steam loco on the front and in working order. 9/10 of those turning up to ride it are just people who want to ride behind a steam loco. Cue can of worms being opened..... I'm not sure there are many who would disagree with you here to be fair Tim! I think that most of us now seem to be on the same page - the public don't mind what the engine is as long as it goes puff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Although we had better not get too pedantic, because D3940 was not built until early 1960 and spent its first few years at York. However, I do like the NNR. I have spent a number of happy days there with my father (who is now in his 90s) re-living the past, and have always found the line to be well run and friendly. Going back a page on the thread, but I like this post as I feel that it outlines a good attitude towards being a customer to the preservation movement. Its good to have the knowledge that makes us aware of such inaccuracies and compromises but it is just as important that we can see past them and enjoy the experience that a preserved railway can offer. To say that what we have available to us is better than nothing, is a gross understatement! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted July 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 14, 2015 Actually, we're both wrong - I've since realised that particular signal is actually the up section signal, since the starters are both behind me. It was late when I uploaded it and I was tired... Which is what a starter is - it might be called an advanced starter, but it's still a starter. A lovely shot though Tim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Was is just the GW that called them starting signals? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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