Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5's

 

So how much reprofiling of the splasher upstands will be necessary to allow the tank extension to clear the splasher. The best way of establishing this is to set up the etch for the smokebox front/splasher assemblies on the steel rule against the modified tank side and then check and measure.

 

Looks like around 1.0 mm but this will be more thoroughly checked.

 

This photo does illustrate that the splasher upstand is too high and the angle into the sandbox is too shallow. The profile for the splasher will be drawn using a compass point and a 22 mm diameter wheel as a template. The G5's use Gibson 20 mm diameter wheels, so this should leave 1 mm for the splasher top and clearance.

 

I can never understand folk who don't check fits before they assemble!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited March 28, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5's

 

The first of the splasher upstands has been re-profiled and can now be checked against the tank extension prior to assembly. Again, the steel rule is the ultimate arbiter!! Looks ok; the prototype didn't have a very large gap between the tank and the splasher.

 

The splasher upstand transition into the sandbox now resembles the drawing much more closely and the smaller tank front radius 'matches' the radius of that transition curve.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited March 28, 2018 by mikemeg

[Daddyman]

Interesting, Mike. I wonder if the splashers can be reduced in 00 too, with modern flange standards - assuming the kit was designed for Romfords. 

 

It's going to be a fascinating model. 

 

Are you off to York? 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Mike,

 

the original design may have been to allow for large flanges and wheel movement as the coupled axles are compensated. In 4mm the original Romford wheels needed more clearance as the flanges were deeper. AGW and Markits are a finer profile. One of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" design choices. 

 

Jol

[mikemeg]

Interesting, Mike. I wonder if the splashers can be reduced in 00 too, with modern flange standards - assuming the kit was designed for Romfords. 

 

It's going to be a fascinating model. 

 

Are you off to York? 

 

David,

 

As with the oher two G5's  in build, then this is also proving to be a real joy.

 

I always planned to build three G5's :-

 

One push and pull fitted which is 67282 with the bunker cage, coal hopper and LNER group standard buffers.

One not push and pull fitted, which is 67256, with the bunker cage but no hopper and NER buffers..

The sole example with extended tanks - 67340.

 

That plan, so far, is still 'on track'!!

 

Yes, I am planning to go to York (I assume you mean the show); that and Scalefour North are my usual 'pilgrimages' to exhibitions.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited March 28, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5's

 

And now both splasher upstands have been reprofiled and now both tank extensions will clear the splashers. I now wish I had done this splasher reprofiling on the other two builds.

 

So now to build the tank fronts and extend the tank tops, prior to fitting the cab cutout beading.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited March 28, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5's

 

The tank front has now been formed and soldered to the tank side, after which the top and bottom of this tank front are finished off to match the levels of the tank side. The curves on the tank front were formed to as near an exact match with those on the tank extension as possible before soldering. For thr smaller radius curve, a spare piece of steel rod, from a High Level Gearbox, was used as the former; for the larger radius I used a pencil as the former. No attempt was made to force the curves during soldering.

 

So now this assembly is three dimensional. It is just resting on the footplate for this photo; not yet fixed. I still haven't incorporated the bowed footplate, so evident in many of the prototype photos, so I guess now I probably won't!

 

This has turned out rather better than I thought it would; I hope the other side also does!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited March 29, 2018 by mikemeg

[Daddyman]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5's

 

And now both splasher upstands have been reprofiled and now both tank extensions will clear the splashers. I now wish I had done this splasher reprofiling on the other two builds.

 

So now to build the tank fronts and extend the tank tops, prior to fitting the cab cutout beading.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Mine is not so far advanced that I can't go back and reprofile the splasher, so thank you for the heads-up. 

 

Do you think the curves in the cab cut-outs are OK? I wonder if they are a little too ... curvy. I haven't had them against a drawing though. 

 

By "York" I meant the show, yes. Do you know what day you'll go? I'm not sure if I'll get there Saturday or Sunday. 

[mikemeg]

Mine is not so far advanced that I can't go back and reprofile the splasher, so thank you for the heads-up. 

 

Do you think the curves in the cab cut-outs are OK? I wonder if they are a little too ... curvy. I haven't had them against a drawing though. 

 

By "York" I meant the show, yes. Do you know what day you'll go? I'm not sure if I'll get there Saturday or Sunday. 

 

Dave,

 

Arthur raised the point, off thread, around the curves in the cab cut outs as he felt that those in the kit are of slightly too large a radius.

 

Arthur consulted a G.A. drawing for the F8, which has exactly the same cab cut out (size, profile) as the G5. The curves should be 9" radius (3 mm) so those on the kit are slightly too large (nearer 4 mm radius than 3 mm) and could be 'tightened'.

 

If I go to York, which is not yet certain, then Saturday will be the day that I go.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited March 28, 2018 by mikemeg

[Daddyman]

That's useful to know, Mike, thanks. I was reluctant to ask as it might seem that I'm always kicking LRM, which is not the case. In fact, I feel the urge to buy something NE from them this weekend - I have spenditis. 

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5's

 

So can't rest on the laurels of doing only one tank side; the other one must be done before any resting on laurels!

 

Anyway, after the excesses of the Easter Holiday, back to that second tank side and its extension. Once the extended tank tops are completed then the bulk of the scratch buiding is done and this becomes a normal kit assembly. At least it does until the detailing phase, when other 'additions' will need to be made.

 

As ever, in my build 'routine', these sides are just resting (though not on their laurels!!) on the footplate.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited April 3, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5's

 

Now I can start the assembly of the loco superstructure, after havng fitted the extended tank top and the cab cutout beading. This side tank assembly is now soldered to the footplate.

 

On this one I did slightly reduce the radii of the curves, on the cab cutout, to 3 mm though they were very close to that anyway.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited April 4, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5's

 

With the soldering of the second tank/cab/bunker side to the footplate and the front spectacle plate soldered between the two cab sides, the superstructure is now taking shape. Now time to cut the motor cut out in the boiler tube and fit the first layer of the smokebox wrapper, after which the boiler assembly can be checked for fit against the cab front opening and the space between the tanks. The front boiler support has been fitted to assist in supporting the boiler assembly while all of this checking is being done.

 

The tube for the boiler will spread when the motor/gearbox cut out is done, necessitating the half open portion to be carefully and gently 'nipped' to restore it to its nominal diameter. Unless this is done, the cut end of the boiler will not match the radius of the opening in the cab front and there will be a visible gap between the two.

 

So far, so good. The boiler sits parallel and level and the tank extensions seem to reach the correct place against the positioned boiler.

 

In this state this loco doesn't look quite such an 'ugly duckling' but there's time yet!! Even so, I bet none of the r-t-r suppliers chooses this one to model!!

 

My Stock Control System (whether, or not, I remember to re-order!) has now flagged imminent shortages of solder and brass buffer castings (I can't find any!!) so orders have been placed to remedy these shortages!! This all sounds rather organised; much more organised than it actually is!!

 

I think now time to do some detailing on builds #1 and #2, prior to coming back to this one, next week.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited April 6, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5's

 

With the smokebox front/sandbox/splasher assembly formed and soldered up, this assembly can now be checked to ensure that it fits under the extended tanks by just sitting it on the footplate. It does, so we can proceed.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited April 10, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5's

 

Having coated the boiler in primer, then the process of marking out and drilling the various holes in the smokebox/boiler sub-assembly can be done, startting with those to accommodate the chimney and dome. The seating of the chimney has been thinned down and the dome has been re-profiled and the seating adjusted, as per an earlier post for build #2. Both components are now just placed on the boiler top and photographed to check their profiles and the fit of the seating.

 

If it looks ok on the photograph then I'll move on; if not, then further adjustments will be done until both chimney and dome look acceptable and are seated properly.

 

I do spend quite a lot of time (sometimes three or four hours) adjusting and then checking these seatings, for nothing spoils a locomotive model quite as much as over thick and/or badly fitting seating on the chimney and dome.

 

The boiler assembly is still not yet fixed to the smokebox front/splasher assembly and will not be until all of the boiler 'furniture' is added.

 

All of these G5 models, as with all of my models of North Eastern locomotives, except those which were withdrawn prior to this date (B15, Q5/2, Tenant), represent their state in mid 1950, so the three G5's are all modelled carrying the later LNER 69a pattern boiler, which has the dome positioned some 1' 9" further back than the original G5 boiler. The washout plug positions and shapes are also different on this later LNER boiler and the characteristic North Eastern pattern safety valve 'trumpet' is replaced by Ross pop valves mounted directly onto the firebox top.

 

The Colin Foster 7 mm drawing, supplied with the kit, shows the locos in this later LNER/BR state.

 

Shame, because I have about twenty unused North Eastern 'trumpet' castings and their handles!! So, if anyone wants a few of these brass trumpet castings or the 'Ross pop valves mounted on a base' castings or the brass clack valve castings, then PM me.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited April 11, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

Slightly off topic, though very much on topic to the locomotives working in and around Hull in the late 1940's and early 1950's is this, shown in the photograph below.

 

Quite a few of these were allocated to Hull's Botanic Gardens shed for working local and branch passenger trains so, at some point, a couple of these ex Great Northern 4-4-2 tanks will be built.

 

Thanks, once again, to my old mate Mick Nicholson for first rescueing and then enhancing this photograph.

 

Has someone given that dome an over-enthusiastic squeezing?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited April 11, 2018 by mikemeg

[Tom F]

Slightly off topic, though very much on topic to the locomotives working in and around Hull in the late 1940's and early 1950's is this, shown in the photograph below.

 

Quite a few of these were allocated to Hull's Botanic Gardens shed for working local and branch passenger trains so, at some point, a couple of these ex Great Northern 4-4-2 tanks will be built.

 

Thanks, once again, to my old mate Mick Nicholson for first rescueing and then enhancing this photograph.

 

Has someone given that dome an over-enthusiastic squeezing?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Lovely Mike, thanks for sharing.

 

There is an amazing colour photo somewhere (might be a Keith Pirt one) of an A6 on Starbeck MPD, Harrogate. Could have been taken yesterday it's that good!

[mikemeg]

Lovely Mike, thanks for sharing.

 

There is an amazing colour photo somewhere (might be a Keith Pirt one) of an A6 on Starbeck MPD, Harrogate. Could have been taken yesterday it's that good!

 

Tom,

 

Many thanks for the kind words.

 

Strangely (or not) 9793 - later 69793 - is the number of an A6 which was, latterly, shedded at Starbeck until its withdrawal.

 

I think I have seen that A6 photo - I think it is 69791 - though I don't have a copy of the photo. But I do have a model of it, along with 69795, 69796 and 69798.

 

Regards

 

Mike

Edited April 11, 2018 by mikemeg

[ArthurK]

Mike

 

I saw all the C12 4-4-2Ts shedded at Hull around 1946-8/ Most were consecutively numbered  7391-7399 though if I recall correctly 7398 was elsewhere. 

 

ArthurK

[mikemeg]

Mike

 

I saw all the C12 4-4-2Ts shedded at Hull around 1946-8/ Most were consecutively numbered  7391-7399 though if I recall correctly 7398 was elsewhere. 

 

ArthurK

 

Arthur,

 

Yes. In the August 1950 stock list 67391 - 67397 (67396 was withdrawn by then) were allocated to Hull Botanic Gardens.

 

67398 was indeed elsewhere, allocated to 40C - Louth in Lincolnshire; Great Northern territory!.

 

At that same time - mid 1950 - Botanic Gardens also had  67354 and 67371.

 

Hell of a lot of tank engines in Hull in 1950, of many different classes (A5, A6, A7, A8, C12, F4, G5, J71, J72, J73, J77, L1, N8, N10, N13, T1, Y1, Y3)!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited April 11, 2018 by mikemeg

[Compound2632]

Hell of a lot of tank engines in Hull in 1950, of many different classes (A5, A6, A7, A8, C12, F4, G5, J71, J72, J73, J77, L1, N8, N10, N13, T1, Y1, Y3)!!

 

Why? You'd think there would be maintenance economies in allocating engines of the same class to the same shed - A5s to Hull, A6s to York, etc.?

 

Or was it a case of having very carefully identified the best classes for particular jobs?

 

Or just chaos?

[PenrithBeacon]

Why? You'd think there would be maintenance economies in allocating engines of the same class to the same shed - A5s to Hull, A6s to York, etc.?

 

...

It all depends on how much maintenance was done on sheds and how much at the works and just how much standardisation there was between classes. Judging by the list above, I suspect there wasn't a lot of standardisation.

[ArthurK]

Arthur,

 

Yes. In the August 1950 stock list 67391 - 67397 (67396 was withdrawn by then) were allocated to Hull Botanic Gardens.

 

67398 was indeed elsewhere, allocated to 40C - Louth in Lincolnshire; Great Northern territory!.

 

At that same time - mid 1950 - Botanic Gardens also had  67354 and 67371.

 

Hell of a lot of tank engines in Hull in 1950, of many different classes (A5, A6, A7, A8, C12, F4, G5, J71, J72, J73, J77, L1, N8, N10, N13, T1, Y1, Y3)!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Mike I knew there were a couple of others hot in sequence but I had forgotten which they were!

 

Don't forget that the early C12s had square cornered tanks. These are the subject of the LRM kit. You will need a bit of scratch building if you use that!

 

Botanic had a wide variety of locos both tank and tender locos. 

 

ArthurK

[Jol Wilkinson]

Craftsman did the round corner tank version of the C12, but these seem to have sunk without trace.

[mikemeg]

Why? You'd think there would be maintenance economies in allocating engines of the same class to the same shed - A5s to Hull, A6s to York, etc.?

 

Or was it a case of having very carefully identified the best classes for particular jobs?

 

Or just chaos?

 

Because the lines in and around Hull, across East Yorkshire, were very flat, many worn out (knackered) classes saw out their final days at the Hull sheds. So the ex-North Eastern B13's, B14's, B15's, Atlantics of classes C6 and C7, D17's, D20's,  D21's and D22's and a host of other classes saw out their final days at the Hull sheds. Even the Raven Pacifics were used on workings into and out of Hull from York in their final years.

 

Some passenger classes finished their days working the fitted fish trains, running as class C or D, to all parts of the country. Even as late as 1963, a London bound fish train regularly produced an immaculate Kings Cross B1.

 

This cascading practice continued till the end of steam in the town in 1967, with the allocation of several B16/3's, in late 1962/early 1963, to replace withdrawn K3's. These B16/3's went from Hull Dairycoates shed straight to the scrapyard as did so many of Hull's locomotives.

 

Remember, when British Railways was formed, Jan 1 1948, they inherited some 400 (four hundred) different types of steam locomotive. In the early 1950's Hull had some forty different classes and sub-classes allocated and at least another forty classes could be seen working into or through the town - ex-GC, GE, GN, MR, L&Y, LMS, LNWR  etc. plus the running in turns for newly built or heavy overhauled locomotives from Doncaster. Virtually every ex-LMS and BR standard loco, built at Doncaster, would have worked a turn into Hull before being despatched to its allocated shed.

 

Also worth remembering that Hull then had three large locomotive sheds and a separate shed on Alexandra Dock, housing J71's, J72's, J77s and the Y classes.

 

Hell of a place to see locomotives was Hull in the late 1940's/early 1950's!!

 

So your final sentence describes it pretty well - just chaos, though organised chaos! And how lucky was Arthur, for he regularly saw and enjoyed this chaotic profusion of locomotive types!.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited April 13, 2018 by mikemeg