Jump to content

mikemeg

Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

Recommended Posts

Mike

 

Lovely builds as always - normally I just watch and enjoy. However, I have to say, this is the first time i’ve Seen olive oil used in a kit build!

 

 

Jon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

Mike

 

Lovely builds as always - normally I just watch and enjoy. However, I have to say, this is the first time i’ve Seen olive oil used in a kit build!

 

 

Jon

 

Jon,

 

Many thanks for the kind words.

 

When the soldering iron heats the olive oil, the aroma is very pleasant. I looked around my house for oil and olive oil was all I could find; normally I try and use clock oil.

 

Now looking where I can use pasta and chopped tomatoes!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited by mikemeg
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, micknich2003 said:

Felt tipped pen is also a perfect solder resist.

 

Thanks Mick, I'll give that a try.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bachmann B1 Conversion

 

Time for some rods, so the coupling rods and connecting rods can now be assembled. On this kit the rods are two thicknesses of 0.45 mm nickel silver with additional half etched overlays on the journals, On the connecting rods, the etched holes in the small ends and the big ends are of different diameters; the etched holes in the coupling rods are of a uniform size. My technique for assembling the rods involves the use of tapered broaches to hold the two sections in line - see photograph. The broaches are pushed into the holes until they are a tight fit but don't revolve them as they will remove metal.

 

Once each broach, at each end, is tight then just nip the two parts of the rod together, along its length using small pliars or tweezers. I then solder from one end and do around a centimetre at a time,  nipping the rod together with the tweezers, as I go. What must be avoided is soldering the two halfs of the etch together while there is a gap between them. Also, avoid soldering from each end towards the middle as the metal does expand and the rod will bend.

 

Once the main body of the rod is soldered, then the overlays at the journals can be carefully folded back, nipped tight with fine nosed pliars and then positioned on the broach for soldering. Try and avoid soldering up the broach as it might break when trying to withdraw it and then extracting a broken piece of broach isn't always easy.

 

Sounds a lot of work but it is done more quickly than it can be explained. As with all of this, it is well worth taking time to get it right!

 

Once everything is soldered the rod can be dressed using fine files to remove burr, etching cusp and to produce an invisible joint along the top and bottom of the rod.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P3200009.JPG

Edited by mikemeg
  • Like 2
  • Informative/Useful 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bachmann B1 Conversion

 

The coupling and connecting rods have now been assembled for build #1 and the two coupling rods checked on the chassis jig for spacing; they should be exactly the same spacing, and are. I won't be making the rods for build #2 until all of the hornguides and axleboxes are fitted on build #1, otherwise confusion will surely reign!

 

The coupling rod articulation is provided by a 1/32" brass pin, which, once inserted, was rivetted from the back using a small hammer on a steel block.

 

The big end journals, on the connecting rods, are 1.3 - 1.4 mm deep,so a scale 4" to 4.5". The combined thickness of the centre journal on the coupling rod and the big end journal on the connecting rod might just give me a problem with the crank pin screw on the Alan Gibson wheels unless they are countersunk into the back of the wheel by quite a distance. One to remember!!

 

Note the etched recesses on the front journals of the connecting rods (rhs of the photo) to allow the crankpins to be reversed and therefore lie flush. Clearances are going to be tight, very tight on this chassis.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P3200010.JPG

Edited by mikemeg
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 

Hi Mike,

I got round the centre crankpin being rather short problem by buying some countersunk M1 or 14BA (cannot remember which) screws that are longer than those supplied by Alan Gibsons. The Gibson crankpin screws are M1, but 14BA is almost identical thread wise, and works just as well with the Gibson crankpin nuts.

Use the long crankpin bush as normal, and if more bush area is needed, use a short one the other way round to give greater bearing area, they can always be shortened a tad if the combination of the two together is too great.

I seem to remember using Ebay to source them, but presumably there are other sources easily found.

 

Pete

Edited by pete55
Spelling error!
  • Informative/Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bachmann B1 Conversion

 

Note to self. Read the ****** addenda to the instructions as well as the instructions themselves!! This relates to doing the soldering of the horn guides before the brake hangar brackets are soldered to the frames, which is covered on an addendum sheet. So, failing to read and do this means that I've had to make temporary changes to the chassis jig to lift the assembled chassis 1/8" off the jig base to clear the brake hangar brackets, while still preserving the perpendicularity of the chassis to the base.

 

Both coupling rods do fit the spacing of the pins and the two centre hornguides have been fitted, though only the lower centre axlebox is shown located in this photo.

 

Heath Robinson or, perhaps, Emmett inspired (if that's the word) this temporary modification!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P1110019.JPG

Edited by mikemeg
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bachmann B1 Conversion

 

After a few days away from the workbench and away from anything related to model making, it's back to these chassis'. The axleboxes supplied with this kit are pretty meaty affairs, around 3 mm thick. This leaves a space of around 9.5 - 10.0 mm between the axles, for the accomodation of the drive carriage on the gearbox, which isn't enough for the gearbox I want to use. So the centre axleboxes and hornguides have been thinned to around 2 mm thick, which will then allow the geabox to be fitted. I did also modify the spring retaining bracket, on the two centre axleboxes, by using some etches from csb tags, soldered to the back of the modified axlebox. This should lessen the stress on these brackets as they now wrap around the centre axle.

 

Following the modification and refitting of the centre axleboxes, then the process of soldering in the remaining hornguides has begun. I did form up the spring keeper plate to prevent axleboxes from falling out , though this will be removed to resume fitting the last hornguides. The mainframe cutouts for the centre axles are a tight fit for the hornguides, acting as the datum for the fitting of the other hornguides, the mainframe cutouts for which, are slightly larger to allow for fine adjustment to fit the coupling rod spacing.

 

The cylinder assembly and expansion link bracket assembly are removable and are removed for the hornguide fitting activity. The vertical pieces of the mainframe springs need a little straightening, clearly visible on the photo!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P3200011.JPG

Edited by mikemeg
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bachmann B1 Conversion

 

While waiting for the High Level gearboxes to arrive - ordered only this week - temporarily stopping any further progress on the chassis, I thought I would assemble the bogie. Some times, building etched kits, you come across a piece of etching design which is really something. Often not too easy to assemble but with care and patience just very rewarding. Such a piece of design and etching is the bogie assembly for the B1. The sides are composed of two layers, with the outer layer carrying the rivet detail. These must be aligned precisely to allow the axle holes to line up. The end pieces must then be aligned and, in the case of the front end piece, formed to the profile of the sides, before soldering.

 

Whereas the default on anything which spans the mainframes must be '00' gauge, with EM and P4 removing metal to fit the wider mainframe spacing, the default spacing on the bogie stretchers is P4, requiring an EM or 00 model to reduce the stretcher width.

 

Anyway, after a couple of hours the bogie is assembled and now ready for the addition of the springing, on the underside. For bending the guard irons I consulted a prototype photograph to get the bends in the correct place and at the correct angles. Again, I'm amazed at how many models have incorrectly profiled guard irons.

 

The wheels are Alan Gibson 3' 2" diameter 10 spoke bogie wheels, P4 gauge versions. Somehow, I don't think these B1's will traverse 18" radius curves though, hopefully, they will traverse 4' 6" radii!!

 

The photo is something like three times the actual size of the assembly and was taken from the absolute minimum focal length which this camera will handle - around 9 inches - and then further enlarged using the photo editor 'crop/rotate' facility.

 

I have to say that this new user interface is one of the best and most intuitive I've seen on collaborative websites.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P3200012.JPG

Edited by mikemeg
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bachmann B1 Conversion

 

Again, while awaiting the order for gearboxes, which has just arrived only two days after the order was placed, I took the opportunity to begin the 'hacking around' of the Bachmann tender. The instructions for this kit do include a series of modifications and additions, to the Bachmnn tender, to bring it more in line with the level of detailing of the loco.

 

So, out with the craft knife with a new, sharp blade and the piercing saw. The tenders which I have for these two B1's both represent the 4,200 gallon tender as they were in the later 1940's/early 1950's before the rear coal plates were moved further backwards. So the first 'modification' is to completely remove the plastic coal load which, as it is integrally moulded, had to be cut out. The rear coal  plate has been thinned down and the front one will also be thinned to nearer scale thickness. I will also thin the sides as much as I can,  to remove any residue from the cutting out of the coal load before building the fire iron tunnel.

 

More thinning, cutting out and cutting off will be done below the tender running plate with the fitting of new lamp irons, buffers and buffer beam 'furniture'.Then the tender sub frame with new brake gear, contained in the kit, can be fitted along with the P4 wheelsets.

 

So  this is about as bad as the first one will look before filler is applied to the old handrail knob holes and the tender top detailing is started.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P1210022.JPG

Edited by mikemeg
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

    Would the Hornby B1 version ( if you can find one) be a better option as a starting point ?

 

   Personally the Bachmann LNER  Tenders I find dire in the extreme , the mouldings are years behind current standards. I hope the new V2 if it ever appears will have a new Tender to pull. Sadly I have read that Bachmann are trying to get over £200 for one which if true is beyond belief !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, micklner said:

    Would the Hornby B1 version ( if you can find one) be a better option as a starting point ?

 

   Personally the Bachmann LNER  Tenders I find dire in the extreme , the mouldings are years behind current standards. I hope the new V2 if it ever appears will have a new Tender to pull. Sadly I have read that Bachmann are trying to get over £200 for one which if true is beyond belief !!

 

Mick,

 

I don't know in answer to your question. Basically I am/will be stripping these Bachmann tenders down to the bare minimum and then bring them up to the required standard with some thinning, removing, changing and scratch built additions. Dimensionally, this tender appears to be pretty accurate, so the start point of the transition is basically good.

 

You'll get an opportunity to judge as I progress with these two builds and, if you think I can improve them further, then just point it out on here! You've never shied away from constructive criticism and nor should you; it is extremely helpful! I managed to transform the Bachmann J72's, so have no doubt that these tenders can also be tranformed. Never shrink from a challenge!!

 

As regards the likely cost of a re-tooled V2, even with Chinese costs of development and production, it can't be long before the £200 plus r-t-r locomotive model becomes a reality. 

 

The thread will now go silent for a few days, as sunnier and warmer - well maybe not, 17 C here; in February!! - climes beckon!!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited by mikemeg
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It will be good to see what you can make out of them !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Bachmann B1 Conversion

 

Back from 'me hols' and now back to the workbench. The top of the first tender has been modified with some plasticard scratch building and a very light coat of primer has been applied, simply to aid in seeing what other details need to be added; white on white isn't the easiest to see! The tender top was obviously masked off before the primer was applied.

 

So this tender now has a top plate, coal space, the fillets holding the sides to the top plate and a fire iron tunnel with the tapered front section. I may stop at this point as much of any additional detail will be covered in coal. The sloping coal space may not be entirely accurate but it will allow a much more prototypically accurate coal load to be added, using crushed real coal, and the coal space will then be obscured.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

P3200013.JPG

Edited by mikemeg
Photo not in focus; retaken and replaced.
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Hi Mike,

 

I'm a bit confused. I thought the B1s had their rear coalplates moved forward and raised in the mid-50s (that's what Yeadon states)? Isn't the version with the coalplate across the 'scoop dome' (can't think of the correct term off hand) what you want for 1950?  Or is 61010's A2/1 tender different again (assuming it still had the tender it was built with in 1950)? Very neat work as always anyway.

 

No use for the tender rear, but here's a view of 61010 prior to its July 1950 general.

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p180146480/h50c1f025 

The overlapped strip(s) of metal forming the top of the tender sides of what I assume is an A2/1 tender is just visible.

 

Regards,

 

Simon

Edited by 65179

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, 65179 said:

Hi Mike,

 

I'm a bit confused. I thought the B1s had their rear coalplates moved forward and raised in the mid-50s (that's what Yeadon states)? Isn't the version with the coalplate across the 'scoop dome' (can't think of the correct term off hand) what you want for 1950?  Or is 61010's A2/1 tender different again (assuming it still had the tender it was built with in 1950)? Very neat work as always anyway.

 

No use for the tender rear, but here's a view of 61010 prior to its July 1950 general.

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p180146480/h50c1f025 

The overlapped strip(s) of metal forming the top of the tender sides of what I assume is an A2/1 tender is just visible.

 

Regards,

 

Simon

 

Simon,

 

Many thanks for that and, on further checking, of course you're right. I do have a couple of LNER 4200 gallon tenders with the rear coal plate in the rearmost position so those can be used.

 

The photograph of 61010 Wildebeeste, in 1950 in LNER lined green livery with BR markings, is an absolute gem and finally solves my quandry as to which B1, suitable for a layout based around Hull in mid-1950 (June), could have been seen in this livery. Never imagined it would be Wildebeeste, which was ubiquitous in Hull in the 1950's and 60's and the bane of the local train spotters.

 

Checking the 1950 Combined Volume, the weight of the original A2/1 tender, carried only by 60509 by that time, is given as 52 tons (which was also the stated weight of the V2 tender).  By that time (mid 1950) the remaining three A2/1's are stated to have received the heavier 8 wheel tender, so three of the original A2/1 six wheel tenders went to other locomotives. The weight of the B1 tender is also given as 52 tons so it appears that the standard LNER 4200 gallon tender was used on the A2/1's as built, B1 and V2, as well as many other LNER standard classes.

 

So was the tender originally fitted to the four A2/1's (which I believe were originally ordered as V2's) the standard 4200 gallon tender? If it was, then that transferred to the newly built 1010 would have been the standard 4200 gallon tender, with the coal plate in the rearmost position.

 

Any further elucidation would be most welcome!

 

Once again, many thanks.

 

Mike

 

Edited by mikemeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, 65179 said:

Does this help?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Thompson_Class_A2/1#/media/File%3ANew_Southgate_locomotive_derailment_geograph-2261880-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

 

I don't have my books to hand to check details, but as can be seen the derailment happened before the 8 wheeled tender was fitted.

 

Simon

 

Simon,

 

Once again a gem of a photograph.

 

That appears to be a standard LNER 4200 gallon tender, with the 'flatter' rear coalplate spanning the water scoop dome. Apparently the first ten B1's were built during the war but further volume production did not start until after the war (1946 I believe) with 1010 Wildebeeste being the first of the post war builds.

 

I am indebted to you for your help, which really does illustrate the value of sites like this and contributors like yourself.

 

Once again many thanks for your interest and your help.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No problem.    It's the photographers who took those pictures and people like Ben Brooksbank who make/made their collections freely available that should really be thanked.  61010 in the condition shown in that Rail Online photo will certainly provide a contrast to all those plain black tank locos!

 

As you'll be fitting a Stones generator and lighting, just be wary that although 61306 Mayflower is handy for close up pictures of the generator and lights, the lighting conduit along the side of the boiler is routed differently to locos in BR service (i.e. it's along the running plate rather than on the boiler as shown with 61010).  Bachmann made that mistake (or took that production decision) with their Farish B1 which slightly spoils the otherwise very good model of the light fitted locos.

 

Simon

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have seen another photo of 508 (now disappeared of the net)  in which you can see the front of the Tender was fitted with the open slatted door version if that helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bachmann B1 Conversion

 

I think I am now persuaded to invest in one or two of Mr Bradwell's kits for the LNER 4200 gallon group standard tender.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike,

I've come to the same conclusion for mine. Mind you, one still has to sort out the various options to suit the particular loco, by the sounds of it.

Dave.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Dave Holt said:

Mike,

I've come to the same conclusion for mine. Mind you, one still has to sort out the various options to suit the particular loco, by the sounds of it.

Dave.

 

 

Dave,

 

Yes indeed. If I model 61010 - Wildebeeste - in its mid 1950 condition, then at least I know that this was the very first B1, built after the war, as part of the volume production of these locos. So it should be reasonaby straightforward to detemine the details of the tender as it was paired with a 4200 gallon tender from an A2/1.

 

I've also decided that the second build will be 61215 - William Henton Carver - which was another long time resident of Hull Botanic Gardens shed. So another search to ascertain the tender details for that one.

 

I've also checked that the nameplates for these two locos are available from 247 Developments - they are!

 

So let's finish this posting with another couple of those wonderful black and white photos, courtesy Mick Nicholson. One of 61010 at Dairycoates shed and the other of 61215 on Hull Botanic Gardens turntable in 1953; now sixty five years ago

 

The CME's of the old North Eastern would never have allowed the cab sidesheets to be truncated out of line with the tender running plate!!

 

The last two photographs, again courtesy Mick Nicholson, were taken inside Hull Dairycoates shed, though many years apart, and are probably some of the best photos I have ever seen of the interior of one of these magical places. You can almost smell that unmistakeable mixture of coal smoke, oil and steam as it hangs in the still, warm air of a summer Sunday afternoon, 'on shed', and see the stygian gloom punctured by those ethereal, yet almost solid shafts of sunlight streaming through the broken or soot stained glass in the shed roof. Refracted, from a pool of oily water, into the swirling colours of the rainbow. No sound, save only the gentle hissing of steam, the occasional drip of water on the floor and the fluttering of pigeons up in the roof.

 

The second of these two photos could have become a David Sheppard painting with that composition, for it really does 'tell it like it was'! Perhaps, if I tire of loco building, then I'll do the painting!

 

Perhaps I digress but what places and what days they were!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

B1 61215. Botanic, 19 July  1953.jpg

B1 61010 Dairycoates.jpg

DAIRYCOATES COPY.jpg

10630632_1081669788516753_5240460076490596272_o.jpg

Edited by mikemeg
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.