Alan Kettlewell Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 It was a criteria high on my list when we moved house two years ago - no room for a big shed - wasn't moving! Alan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) I'll be checking this today but I'm fairly sure there isn't such an option. However there is an option to connect the boosters to the Z21 via LocoNet sockets and cables (as an alternative to B-Bus) so this might throw up options about how the boosters report back to the main unit. I've ordered the LNet cables today so I can try this when they turn up. Many thanks. Alan Not a good day No success with this as I just can't configure things so that the Z21 stays on when there's a short in any of the power districts. All 3 boosters are now connected up via the LocoNet (LNet) ports. I spent a few hours yesterday using the Z21 Maintenance Tool ( http://www.z21.eu/en/Downloads ) and learning a bit about LNet CV programming, which is a whole new world to me. The maintenance tool is a piece of software with which you can configure the Z21 and in it there's a screen where you can set up and configure accessories on the LNet bus (I'll post some screen shots of this tool later if anyone is interested). After some steep learning I found I was able to read and write some CVs to and from the boosters. I was able to change their addresses, set how many milliseconds to respond to a short, whether or not to send a report about a short circuit to the main unit (I was interested in this but it made no difference!) and a few other settings. What I was able to do was to set an address for each booster and assign that address to an On/Off switch in Train Controller. So now I can turn each booster on or off by clicking a button on my control screen, which is not such a big deal except it allows me to turn the power back on with a button - but I can do that anyway in Train Controller without the additional buttons. It may be useful should I not require all boosters to be on for any reason, or for isolating districts for fault detection purposes. So, back to the drawing board with this at the moment. I've asked Digikeijs if it's possible to set up the way I want but they haven't replied yet. If not then the only other method I can think of is to use circuit breakers between the tracks on each power district and the boosters which will cost around £100. So my cheap boosters may not have been such a good bargain after all! More later .. Alan Edited March 13, 2016 by Alan Kettlewell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted March 13, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) Alan - it might be calling A&H Models as they are a main dealer of Roco products including the Z21 and hence could answer your question. http://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/ . Technically they're very good. I'm sure the way the Lenz works is that the feature is in the command station. I've now set up the LZV100 in that way, so that now when a short occurs the internal LV102 drops power and the LED on the LZV100 flashes quickly. But the command station is still live so I can change points etc. As soon as the short is resolved, operation is restored. Edited March 13, 2016 by RFS 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 Alan - it might be calling A&H Models as they are a main dealer of Roco products including the Z21 and hence could answer your question. http://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/ . Technically they're very good. I'm sure the way the Lenz works is that the feature is in the command station. I've now set up the LZV100 in that way, so that now when a short occurs the internal LV102 drops power and the LED on the LZV100 flashes quickly. But the command station is still live so I can change points etc. As soon as the short is resolved, operation is restored. Yes I think I will give them a call tomorrow thanks. Also James at DCC Train Automation is quite knowledgeable. I wish that same feature as per your Lenz command station was available but it doesn't appear to be an option. The Z21 doesn't have a 'command station' as such, like the Lenz or other DCC systems. All controls are carried out wirelessly using the Z21 'App' on a tablet or smart phone, so there aren't the range of controls or options needed for this purpose within the App. That's why Roco have made the Maintenance Tool available. I've seen A&H Model's videos about the Z21 Maintenance Tool but although they cover such features as updating the firmware, they don't cover the LNet CV programming part and how I might achieve what I want - which is, as you say above - to set up so that the Z21 stays powered up when there's a short in any district. This simple yet much required feature remains illusive .. . I'll keep worrying away at this until I get it resolved! There has to be a solution! Cheers ... Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Hi Alan, I've used James at Dcc Train Automation on the odd occasion and as he sells the Digikeijs range I feel that he may well be of help in solving your problem. I've found him to be very practical in his approach. Hope it gets resolved for you. Grahame Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 More about the Z21 Maintenance Tool (For anyone interested) Just in case there's any interest here's a few screenshots of the Z21 Maintenance Tool: On opening the programme this screen appears - now it needs to be connected to the Z21 wirelessly via the router: Once connected there are a number of additional pages appear. You can see here in the 'Status' page, some basic info about the Z21 and hardware etc: A variety of settings that can be read or written to and from the Z21. Note that you can change the speed at which a short circuit is detected On the 'R-Bus' page you can see and affect accessories attached to your layout: And finally the page I was interested in - the LNet page where the boosters can be given an address and LNet CVs can be read or changed: The instructions that come with the booster detail all the LNet CVs that can be read and written to change how the boosters operate. Unfortunately, after two days exploring every LNet CV available, I haven't found the 'magic' one that tells the Z21 not to turn off the power if there's a short - very frustrating! Tomorrow I'll make a couple of calls to see if I can find out more. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Hi Alan, Once again thank you for taking the time to show what you've discovered so far, albeit sadly not a solution! ( I'm hopeful that you will get the correct answers tomorrow ). As I've yet to unbox my Z21 Black and put it to good use all the above information you are posting is being taken on- board should I get to go down the same route. I'm fairly confident that James will get to the heart of it for you, and as with my past conversations with him he usually "knows a man who does" and hasn't disappointed me yet. All the best with your calls. Grahame p.s. just to make it clear I've no connection with the above other than a satisfied customer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 Glad if it's helped Grahame. If there 's a next time for me then I'd set things up the same but I might buy different boosters. I'm sure there are some out there that work independently (or outbound) of the main control. I've also found James helpful and will definitely give him a call. Cheers Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brittannia Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Yes I think I will give them a call tomorrow thanks. Also James at DCC Train Automation is quite knowledgeable. I wish that same feature as per your Lenz command station was available but it doesn't appear to be an option. The Z21 doesn't have a 'command station' as such, like the Lenz or other DCC systems. All controls are carried out wirelessly using the Z21 'App' on a tablet or smart phone, so there aren't the range of controls or options needed for this purpose within the App. That's why Roco have made the Maintenance Tool available. I've seen A&H Model's videos about the Z21 Maintenance Tool but although they cover such features as updating the firmware, they don't cover the LNet CV programming part and how I might achieve what I want - which is, as you say above - to set up so that the Z21 stays powered up when there's a short in any district. This simple yet much required feature remains illusive .. . I'll keep worrying away at this until I get it resolved! There has to be a solution! Cheers ... Alan A & H closed Mondays Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 Here's a screenshot of the Digikeijs Booster manual showing the table of LocoNet CVs that can be set or changed. CV3 is configurable at bit level to give desired properties (a bit like CV29 in loco decoders where each bit can be set). I was hoping that CV3 bits 2 and 4 (in the lower table) would be the 'magic' ones that allow the main unit to 'ignore' a short circuit in the boosters. I tried changing each of these several times but to no avail unfortunately. Well, that's about enough of this topic, it's beginning to take over everything so, apart from a couple of phone calls to seek help with this over the next day or two, I'm not going to spend much more time on this. Time to continue with other things .. like building the layout. Cheers .. Alan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 For those who like to see trains running here's another short video from a couple of days ago. I have circuits completed now in both up and down lines. German trains running just now (for those who haven't read back, due to a change of plan, this layout is to be based in southern parts of Germany and not Swiss as the thread title suggests.) Four trains on at once - a bit hectic without automatic control in place just yet: Cheers .. Alan 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofanenvelope Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Very nice Alan and will be lovely to sit back with a bottle of Becks and just watch trains go by though I missed the switch to German. Will go back and read 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 LNCV 3 bit 2 needs to be 0 to stop the GPON/OFF messages, so does bit 4. You need to add these values for the total value in LNCV3. LNCV 12 determines how long the booster waits to send a short circuit message. Hmmm interesting. I've tried already setting bit 2 and 4 to zero but it made no difference. This then set the CV3 value to 72. I haven't tried setting cV3 = 0 so will give this a try. CV12 seems to be about reversing the signal but I'm willing to try anything. Thank you. Alan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Riley Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Alan, I only found this thread this evening. I am tremendously impressed with the progress you have made with this over a few months. Please keep posting. Mike 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 Hello Mike, Welcome aboard. I'm very happy to keep on posting just so long as there is interest. Alan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 Alan, I only found this thread this evening. I am tremendously impressed with the progress you have made with this over a few months. Please keep posting. Mike To help keep me spurred on I've set myself a target to have all track laid and tested within 12 months of starting the build. I cut the first piece of timber for the framework in September so I reckon I'm on course. So far I've got nearly all the track laid on Levels 1 and 2. The next construction job is to build two more spirals and the track beds on the third level - this is to be a single track line with 4 hidden storage loops on one side and a passing loop at a small station on the other side. After that, if the plan goes right and I have the room, I'll make a short rack & pinion branch going up to a high level terminus at the top of a mountain. Onwards (and upwards). Cheers... Alan 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) I spent some time weighing up this poor attempt at a site for all the electrical gubbins which I wasn't too happy with. Too many loose cables hanging around and untidy. I have a small set of office drawers that some friends donated for use in my shed which I hadn't yet found a use for so I've decided to butcher it a bit and use it for all the electrical boxes etc: I've cut out a large piece of the back of the drawer cabinet so all the cables can be fed in from the rear and fixed the electrical components into the top two drawers. In the second drawer down, pictured here, I've fixed as many of the mains components as I can fit in: In the top drawer are the Z21, Router and 3 x boosters. Lots of cables and a bit of a tight squeeze - I might relocate the router to a better place if possible. The loose red and blue wires you can see hanging over the edge will go to LEDs fitted in the drawer front: So, looking a bit tidier methinks .. I have the LEDs to fix into the drawer front yet and I'll drill a few dozen holes in each side of the cabinet to allow ventilation. All the cables will be bundled in loops to allow the drawers to be pulled out. All wiring will be attached and fed in from the rear then the cabinet will be pushed under the layout so I can see the Z21 and the LEDs. I'll fit LEDs to show power on to all 3 boosters, plus LEDs for the Accessory Bus and programming track. That should cover it. I should get this finished today with a bit of luck then onwards with the build. Alan Edited March 15, 2016 by Alan Kettlewell 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 Alan, try this: LNCV 3: 0, LNCV 12: 250 HTH! I tried this today but unfortunately it also didn't work. Thank you all the same. It must therefore be to do with the Roco system I reckon. James at DCC Train Automation thinks the same but has agreed to seek answers from Roco and Digikeijs. He'll get back to me once he's received replies. Thanks again Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Hi Alan, I'm sorry to read of your electronic travails, although I'm a Digital fan myself, I'm a complete electronic numpty so am no use whatsoever to you, sorry! Why did I go digital, then? I like the 'other' advantages it has over analogue, less complex wiring, better motor control, better pick up, light & sound functions etc. My statement "less complex wiring" might seem ironic to you, of course! Anyway, I really like the video, hope it helps keep the spirits up and shows just what will be possible. Cheers, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Hi Alan I watched and commented on your latest YouTube vid earlier, looking excellent with multiple trains now running successfully. I did also notice the "electrical gubbins" green lights functioning so I'd guess that you've got it sussed now ? I hope so Good to see the trains running ! Cheers Grahame Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted March 17, 2016 Author Share Posted March 17, 2016 That's my new 'electrical gubbins' cabinet just about done, a much tidier effort methinks. Red, blue and green LEDs on the front show power on to the three boosters, the yellow is for the programming track. All the cables are labelled and looped at the rear so that the drawers can be opened for access to the Z21, router, boosters and accessory power supply. If needed, the entire layout can be disconnected in a couple of minutes just by undoing a few screws on a terminal block round to the side. Cheers.. Alan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted March 17, 2016 Author Share Posted March 17, 2016 Z21 App - Switches Accessory While playing about with the Z21 App on my tablet, I found in the track control screens there is an accessory for a switch. So I was able to link switches to turn each of my three power districts on or off from my tablet. Cool ... Here's a short demo video turning power district three on and off ... Alan 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Train Crash in Germany Oops. Must take more care when driving! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 Automated Running - Early Trials I thought I'd have a break from building framework, track beds and track laying so I've made a start on putting the contacts (sensors) in place around the layout to enable automatic control by the computer. I use reed switches connected up to Feedback Decoder modules (DR4088RB Opto modules from Digikeijs) and small magnets fixed under each loco - for push-pull trains I fix a magnet at each end. Just for now I've fitted out just one part of the layout so I can test things out. For those interested in this sort of automatic control I've made a short video showing a handful of trains running around a basic loop between the storage yards and station on one part of my layout. As I progress the routes will be much longer, more complex and more interesting, but for now this is useful to ensure all is working as it should. The trains in the video are all running automatically - no hands or human intervention! I needed both hands anyway to take the video! Apologies for my lack of video skills by the way, this is done on my phone but at least the picture quality is good. I've made a few annotations to explain what's happening and some of the trains are not sound equipped but you can hear others in the background. I still have a lot of work to do yet but this gives an idea of progress on this side of things and a hint, just a hint, of what 'Train Controller' software is capable of. For automatic control to work well, 'Train Controller' needs to 'calibrate' all the locos. Without going into too much detail, the calibration is a process that sets up the speed profile of each loco so that all locos will travel at the correct (scale) speed ie 60kph is 60kph regardless of which loco is running. The software also needs this information in order to control exact stopping distances so if trains need to stop, say at signals or in platforms, then every loco can be stopped accurately at the correct place. I've got this down to a tolerance of about 2cms so I'm happy with that for now. Also, lots of other features can be automated eg sounds and lights can be turned on or off, speed is controlled in each block section, wait times can be pre-defined and so on - the list is endless. Anyway, enough of this babbledygook - enjoy the short video .. Alan 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swisspeat Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 This is superb Alan. A great looking layout in the making. The trains run very well, running smoothly over the crossover which says that you have done a good job of laying the track. One almost feels its good enough without any scenery... Thank you for sharing this with us. Regards, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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