Jump to content

Andy Kirkham

Western Identification Sought

Recommended Posts

10419766834_965cbd4f21_z.jpgA freshly painted Class 52 approaching Drump lane with a Down train, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

I wonder if any of you gentlemen would be able to suggest an ID for this machine, based on the observation that it seems to be fresh out of the paintshop, and the photo was taken some time during the Easter school holidays in 1974. In fact, since it is so utterly immaculate, would it be reasonable to suppose that this is its first day back in traffic?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lovely shot  - the only one I can see that 'fits' if the date is correct is D1048 which was released off Laira on 17th April '74, the nameplate looks the right length but according to Adrian Curtis the footsteps in the front valances were not painted silver as per the loco in the pic... needs a bit more investigation methinks!

 

Edit ; there are no other Thousands with a short nameplate which fit the date of the photo so I think Adrian has got it wrong regarding the footsteps on the valances.... my money is on D1048 and since there's barely a hint of exhaust muck on the roof then yes, it is most likely its first outing on the mainline after coming off Laira.

Edited by Rugd1022

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chaps

 

Are you sure that the date is right here's a shot of D1009 Western Invader at Exeter not long after her Laira repaint to compare.

 

 

Cheers Gareth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lovely shot  - the only one I can see that 'fits' if the date is correct is D1048 which was released off Laira on 17th April '74, the nameplate looks the right length but according to Adrian Curtis the footsteps in the front valances were not painted silver as per the loco in the pic... needs a bit more investigation methinks!

 

Edit ; there are no other Thousands with a short nameplate which fit the date of the photo so I think Adrian has got it wrong regarding the footsteps on the valances.... my money is on D1048 and since there's barely a hint of exhaust muck on the roof then yes, it is most likely its first outing on the mainline after coming off Laira.

 

I think Adrian Curtis is right there is a photo of D1048 at Padd on ebay after her repaint in April 74 there are no silver steps.

 

Cheers Gareth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lovely shot  - the only one I can see that 'fits' if the date is correct is D1048 which was released off Laira on 17th April '74, the nameplate looks the right length but according to Adrian Curtis the footsteps in the front valances were not painted silver as per the loco in the pic... needs a bit more investigation methinks!

 

Edit ; there are no other Thousands with a short nameplate which fit the date of the photo so I think Adrian has got it wrong regarding the footsteps on the valances.... my money is on D1048 and since there's barely a hint of exhaust muck on the roof then yes, it is most likely its first outing on the mainline after coming off Laira.

I reckon you're right. Definitely a Crewe loco and if you look closely the exhaust only stains the roof towards the coaches so looks like first working.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10419766834_965cbd4f21_z.jpgA freshly painted Class 52 approaching Drump lane with a Down train, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

I wonder if any of you gentlemen would be able to suggest an ID for this machine, based on the observation that it seems to be fresh out of the paintshop, and the photo was taken some time during the Easter school holidays in 1974. In fact, since it is so utterly immaculate, would it be reasonable to suppose that this is its first day back in traffic?

 

Hi Andy

 

After doing some digging around i think it's D1034 Western Dragoon released off repairs at Laira on 17/04/74 same day day as D1048 which did not carry silver steps. 

 

Other April 74 dates off Laira are D1008 10/04/74 AND D1029 24/04/74

 

Hopes this helps.

 

Cheers GARETH

Edited by TEDDYBEAR D9521

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Other Westerns to receive the silver footsteps (Laira) repaint around this period were D1026 and D1036. D1034 as far as I am aware never had the silver footsteps treatment, and remained in a fairly scruffy state until she was withdrawn in 1975.

It can't be D1026 as the loco in Andy's photo has headboard clips. D1036 had a higher mounted numberplate than the rest of the class, but was repainted a year later in May 1975.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5792929034/

D1036 in the above photo is May 1975 - are you sure it wasn't May '75 Andy? The numberplate in your photo is in line with the cab front warning flashes, but the angle of the shot makes it difficult to see if name and number plates match.

My guess is that it's D1036. Edit - it looks like the "D" has been painted black too.

Neil

Edited by Downendian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm must admit this one is challenging. I now think based on the position of the numberplate that D1036 is the only thing to suggest it's not (apart from the date of course) - on D1036 the plate should line up with the bottom of the body side grilles - it apparently doesn't in Andy's photo. However, look at the two white blemishes on the paintwork beneath the nameplate, one of course is a gauge the other is not - they are in the same position as the May 1975 shot of D1036, I'm still sticking my neck out with Emperor.

If you look at Andy's Flickr link, the nameplate is a bit more visible - and it certainly isn't a short name so I think D1048 is not likely.

Neil

Edited by Downendian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still think it's a short nameplate, doesn't look quite long enough to be 'Dragoon' but these old mince pies of mine are getting on now!

 

I'm pretty sure it ain't 1036 though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chaps

 

Right the Laira repaints which are for April 74 are

 

D1008 10/04/74 Allocation sticker above number D painted out in black, silver w/screens,silver footrests.

 

D1034 17/04/74 Allocation sticker above number D painted out in black, silver w/screens, silver footrests

 

D1048  17/04/74 Allocation sticker above number D painted out in black,w/screens/footrests not painted silver.

 

After D1048 was released off Laira repainted it worked the nexts day 1A69 0835 Penzance to Padd and 1B93 return

 

working from Padd on the18/04/74

 

Hopes this helps with a little more info.

 

Cheers Gareth

Edited by TEDDYBEAR D9521

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just my 10 pence worth -

 

The photo on this page is too small to enlarge without pixellating, so I had to do a screen shot of the Flickr photo and blow that up.

 

This is how it looks,

 

post-4474-0-19432000-1440875746.png

 

 

Now that name looks a few characters too long for Lady to me.

 

 

Also on the left there is a person up the signal ladder, so there must be another photo of this working at the same location (but from the opposite side) out there somewhere.

 

post-4474-0-86853000-1440875755.png

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

D1036 in the above photo is May 1975 - are you sure it wasn't May '75 Andy? 

I'm as sure as I can be. The date stamp on the Kodachrome slide mount is APR 74.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Andy

 

After doing some digging around i think it's D1034 Western Dragoon released off repairs at Laira on 17/04/74 same day day as D1048 which did not carry silver steps. 

 

Other April 74 dates off Laira are D1008 10/04/74 AND D1029 24/04/74

 

Hopes this helps.

 

Cheers GARETH

 

10419766834_965cbd4f21_z.jpgA freshly painted Class 52 approaching Drump lane with a Down train, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

I wonder if any of you gentlemen would be able to suggest an ID for this machine, based on the observation that it seems to be fresh out of the paintshop, and the photo was taken some time during the Easter school holidays in 1974. In fact, since it is so utterly immaculate, would it be reasonable to suppose that this is its first day back in traffic?

 

Hi Andy

 

After looking back through some of my info the train is 2B10 0842 Plymouth -Penzace service so the loco would have come off Laira.

 

A little more info for you.

 

Cheers Gareth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nameplate looks like it might be Harrier to me.... but this photo of her has the repaint dated earlier, with non-silver door foothole. It does have a similar mark below the nameplate, though I'm not 100% sure it's not a blemish on the photo - and isn't this the other side? Note that the exhaust marks are only in one direction too, so not sure how it got to Exeter stabling point, if it was painted in Plymouth.

 

https://flic.kr/p/swofcu

Edited by stovepipe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow well I've learnt a lot more about late Laira repaints with silver footrests. I didn't know so many had received this. I can clearly remember D1026, looked absolutely stunning in the summer of '74. It is clear though that the footrests rapidly faded.

I'm still none the wiser. If Andy's slide is printed 1974 then D1008 or D1034?

Neil

Edited by Downendian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm with Gareth on this, D1034 Western Dragoon.

 

There appears to be two identical letters towards the end of the nameplate, and I think at that angle and magnification the final 'N' has almost merged with the sun-glint on the raised borders of the plate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Gareth has a complete list of these repaints that would be useful - I don't recall a full list of them Adrian Curtis's books which go into intricate detail about most Western minutiae, but then again I don't have all volumes he produced. I'll certainly paint a few more like this then, I've got D1026 on the back burner now.

Strictly then this was the first deviation away from standard BR blue, well before the Stratford silver roofed 47s, and the Silver jubilee pair.

 

Neil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I photographed D1034 at Laira in April '74, fresh out of shops. I don't have time to dig out the images now, but will do so after the weekend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the enlarged nameplate again, the first letter of the second word looks to begin vertically so could well be a D. On closer inspection there might be another letter after the double two which curl at the top.

 

With the other evidence above and the date not after Apr'74, then 1034 looks a very good bet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Neil - Adrian's 'Western Liveries' book has the full list of Laira repaints, this is where I first looked when answering Andy's question (wrongly!) in post #2.

 

It would take a while to type them all out here, if there's anything specific you're after let me know!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.