Dapol 08

[Luke Piewalker]

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6622-class-08-09-variations/

[Luke Piewalker]

I knew I'd found it on here somewhere when I did mine! I think I eventually narrowed it down to five possibles, then 2 likelies before choosing my final identity.

Always best to find pictures of the one you are modelling for positioning of the arrows of indecision and such. Although I still managed to get that wrong...

[Luke Piewalker]

Got some an email in from Rails today announcing the new tooling for the 08 with 'short hinge' doors.

 

For balance I have linked to the announcement on Hattons

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/NewsDetail.aspx?id=321

[hellotojasonisaacs]

Got some an email in from Rails today announcing the new tooling for the 08 with 'short hinge' doors.

 

For balance I have linked to the announcement on Hattons

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/NewsDetail.aspx?id=321

Oh yes!!! I've always liked the Dapol 08. I suspect I might end up having a small foray into the world of O gauge; an EWS and railfreight one for me! (All in good time of course)

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Interesting, but after build quality issues I shall probably stick with my MMP kit version, for 'SH' version.

[Michanglais]

Will they remember the windscreen wipers this time... 

[Foxley]

I'm jumping late on the bandwagon with this one, but wanted to see if others have had similar issues?

 

I may be accused of a little OCD. Generally when I purchase something, I want it to be perfect - even though I'm a modeller and happy to try and fix things!

 

Still..

 

I've had 3 BR Green ones now from two different retailers and am starting to feel like my expectations are possibly too high, but when you spend £191..

 

First one: Broken buffers, marked bodywork, broken handles, chipped buffer beam.

Second one: Broken buffers, marked bodywork, scratched glass, broken handles, chipped buffer beam.

Third one: Marked bodywork, scratched glass (I was just going to make do with this one and say it is what it is, but then discovered the doors don't shut flush either...)

 

The marked bodywork, I'll be weathering over anyway so not a huge issue, broken buffers, so-so. Just a bit of glue. Broken handles, well, not ideal. Chipped paintwork, not acceptable, even with weathering, the only way to fix this, is strip all paint back and re-paint, otherwise you end up with a stepped effect in paintwork. Doors not shutting, well I completely disassembled the cab to try and fix it and it was a no-go due to the moulding, even after I sliced part of the door to thin it. The scratched glass, I thought I could replace - sent a message to Dapol for replacements and never got a reply.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have a local store to go and look before I buy. At least a 3 hour round trip for my nearest one.

 

I really want two of these (One blue, one green) but I'm thinking it's just not going to happen and I'll never get one that isn't damaged in some way.

 

Has anyone else experienced any of these issues when they purchased one?

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi Mic,

 

Between friends and me we have had six locos, which were not fit for purpose, not of satisfactory quality and thus defective. Some had repairable issues and some not.

 

It is my understanding that TQM is not carried out in the 'Chinese factory' and Dapol also don't apply, apparently, any QC or TQM to their models, although their models carry a year long no quibble guarantee. However, from experience, a 50% failure/defect rate is unacceptable. MSMM mags don't seem to comment on such, like they have often ignored 12 years of split gears on £500 plus diesel outline models from Heljan. UNACCEPTABLE in most walks of life re. a considered purchases, any purchase (especially in these cash strapped times)?

 

Although most of us are capable of doing repairs, morally, ethically and legally we shouldn't have to!

 

ATVB,

 

CME

Edited July 20, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Greenmodelmonkey]

I'm jumping late on the bandwagon with this one, but wanted to see if others have had similar issues?

 

I may be accused of a little OCD. Generally when I purchase something, I want it to be perfect - even though I'm a modeller and happy to try and fix things!

 

Still..

 

I've had 3 BR Green ones now from two different retailers and am starting to feel like my expectations are possibly too high, but when you spend £191..

 

First one: Broken buffers, marked bodywork, broken handles, chipped buffer beam.

Second one: Broken buffers, marked bodywork, scratched glass, broken handles, chipped buffer beam.

Third one: Marked bodywork, scratched glass (I was just going to make do with this one and say it is what it is, but then discovered the doors don't shut flush either...)

 

The marked bodywork, I'll be weathering over anyway so not a huge issue, broken buffers, so-so. Just a bit of glue. Broken handles, well, not ideal. Chipped paintwork, not acceptable, even with weathering, the only way to fix this, is strip all paint back and re-paint, otherwise you end up with a stepped effect in paintwork. Doors not shutting, well I completely disassembled the cab to try and fix it and it was a no-go due to the moulding, even after I sliced part of the door to thin it. The scratched glass, I thought I could replace - sent a message to Dapol for replacements and never got a reply.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have a local store to go and look before I buy. At least a 3 hour round trip for my nearest one.

 

I really want two of these (One blue, one green) but I'm thinking it's just not going to happen and I'll never get one that isn't damaged in some way.

 

Has anyone else experienced any of these issues when they purchased one?

Yes I had several issues and had to return locos for replacement and refund but loco not bad value in my opinion. If it's perfection you are seeking then paying closer to £1,200+ for a mass-produced version from some of the leading locomotive suppliers if this model was available for purchase (eg Lee Marsh or Mastermodels) then you might get you what you want. I said might... I have a small loco from one of these manufactures and it was not perfect even for that money. Sounds like you are expecting too much from Dapol for such a cheaply mass produced item. At the end of the day locos are not bad for money really and the one of the best O gauge locos I have purchased (well that's in my opinion). I have built many white metal a etched brass 0 gauge locos in my time so nice to have something that is accurate and at long last straight out of the box and at such a low cost compared to the kits.

[Hal Nail]

Hi CME,

 

I regard myself as an enthusiastic amateur In these ranks so read up to get info and have learned a lot from your posts. I do feel you are not, perhaps, a massive fan of Dapol in particular and I’m not sure why. I accept there seem to be some quality control issues but you don’t seem as harsh, to my eyes on, say, Heljan threads when their locos cost considerably more and have had numerous shape issues.

 

I don’t own any Dapol locos so genuinely interested to know if there are real issues with their stuff which, post Richard Webster, has been well received and seems to me to be taking the hobby forward?

 

Very reluctant to challenge you, just interested in your thoughts.

 

Cheers

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Yes I had several issues and had to return locos for replacement and refund but loco not bad value in my opinion. If it's perfection you are seeking then paying closer to £1,200+ for a mass-produced version from some of the leading locomotive suppliers if this model was available for purchase (eg Lee Marsh or Mastermodels) then you might get you what you want. I said might... I have a small loco from one of these manufactures and it was not perfect even for that money. Sounds like you are expecting too much from Dapol for such a cheaply mass produced item. At the end of the day locos are not bad for money really and the one of the best O gauge locos I have purchased (well that's in my opinion). I have built many white metal a etched brass 0 gauge locos in my time so nice to have something that is accurate and at long last straight out of the box and at such a low cost compared to the kits.

No need to pay £1200.00 for an 08, Dapol just need to sort their quality control. Other manufacturers who use the same factory don't have these problems, why? QC. Some have left said factory to set up UK supply chains to gain even more control......

Hi CME,

I regard myself as an enthusiastic amateur In these ranks so read up to get info and have learned a lot from your posts. I do feel you are not, perhaps, a massive fan of Dapol in particular and I’m not sure why. I accept there seem to be some quality control issues but you don’t seem as harsh, to my eyes on, say, Heljan threads when their locos cost considerably more and have had numerous shape issues.

I don’t own any Dapol locos so genuinely interested to know if there are real issues with their stuff which, post Richard Webster, has been well received and seems to me to be taking the hobby forward?

Very reluctant to challenge you, just interested in your thoughts.

Cheers

Hi, thanks for the kind words, no worries, challenge away. Richard Webster is pretty good at what he does, he's the, AFAICT, designer and design engineer, picking up where Dave Jones left off? After that, what goes on in the factory, is down to costings and the Dapol management team.

The failure rates in Dapol and Heljan products are unacceptably high, those are proven facts, in short VFM model locos are coming from the same factory, fully QCd and then checked over again in the UK, they cost just a mere few £s more. Dapol seem obsessed with Harvardesque Business School 'undercutting the competition so as to gain market share' ethos. We lost Lionheart to Dapol because of such, yet that, ironically turned out okayish. But Heljan and Dapol have seen off JLTRT which means the loss of several ranges of kits (manufacturers' ranges) gone. I have no business relationships with any company mentioned here so I speak (write) as I find, the truth. Heljan, with splitting gears over past few years (increasing in price) - very cynical? Dapol, cheap and not so cheerful? There IS a happy middle ground.

 

Hope that clarifies

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

Edited July 20, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher

[class27]

Hi

Changing subject slightly. One of my 08's (Dapol own sound) has developed an unusual fault, it has been fine, but now when the shunting lights are switched on the sound fades out this can only be rectified by taking the loco off the track and starting again , however sound and shunting lights together is a no.

My other 08 has Paul Chetter sound which I prefer, and no problems. Can I reset the chip and see if that clears the fault or send it for a reblow to Paul's sound 

your thoughts much appreciated

I too have had broken buffers and handrails to sort out, annoying yes, but very difficult for a manufacturer to deal with given the rough handling they get in final transit to us customers

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi

Changing subject slightly. One of my 08's (Dapol own sound) has developed an unusual fault, it has been fine, but now when the shunting lights are switched on the sound fades out this can only be rectified by taking the loco off the track and starting again , however sound and shunting lights together is a no.

My other 08 has Paul Chetter sound which I prefer, and no problems. Can I reset the chip and see if that clears the fault or send it for a reblow to Paul's sound

your thoughts much appreciated

I too have had broken buffers and handrails to sort out, annoying yes, but very difficult for a manufacturer to deal with given the rough handling they get in final transit to us customers

Hi,

 

Broken handrails etc only seem to be an issue for Dapol and Heljan.

 

With your decoder issue I've heard of similar before and I'm racking my brains as to the solution, a reset might help or a reblow from PC et al., tbf to Dapol if in warranty they would put it right, no quibbles, but that means sending loco back to them at Chirk. Hope that helps?

 

ATVB,

 

CME

Edited July 21, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Jintyman]

Hi,

 

Broken handrails etc only seem to be an issue for Dapol and Heljan.

 

With your decoder issue I've heard of similar before and I'm racking my brains as to the solution, a reset might help or a reblow from PC et al., tbf to Dapol if in warranty they would put it right, no quibbles, but that means sending loco back to them at Chirk. Hope that helps?

 

ATVB,

 

CME

 

 

The Dapol repair system is now, to contact DCC supplies who are Dapol's repair agents.

The loco would then have to be sent to them for repair, etc.

As for the sound problem, I have fitted many 08's and I've never come across it, but then I've always used a Zimo MX644D with Paul Chetter sound. The Dapol 08 requires a 21-Pin 6-function decoder to operate the lights correctly.

For a re-blow you would now have to get the decoder re-blown with Paul's sound file at Digitrains, where all his sound projects are now available from. But the decoder would have to be a Zimo, as Paul doesn't do any other make of decoder.

The codes for the three Paul Chetter sound projects that are available from Digitrains are:  ZS08AD,  ZS08AP  and ZS08ASL 

 

There is a 'How to' on the ESU site for fitting their 4-function decoder, but this, I believe, involves altering some wiring within the loco, which I believe would invalidate any warranty on the loco. What decoder is used in the 08 that has the problems?

 

In balance, I have had, both myself and for customers, at least 2 dozen 08's through my hands with only 3 with any kind of fault. One was a poor running fault which was a wheel turned slightly on an axle. The other two were a collapsed front ladder on a green one (Which took some putting back together!) and a buffer head fell off on another.

I think that for the price of them (Sub £200), they do represent good value for money, but as the old saying goes, "You will never please all of the people all of the time........."

 

Jinty

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi JM,

 

Good point, I'd forgotten that DCCS had taken up that role, AFAICT they're a husband and wife team and always busy with their own business. The Zimo route is a safe bet too.

 

As for VFM, other brands, from same Chinese factory? Bits don't fall off of those, of course no one else is doing a RTR 08 at this time so 'you pays yer money and makes yer choice'.

 

I have a fair few Dapol products and their Vans run very well and with light fettling make good layout models. Some of the 16T VB Minerals have errors, but otherwise are very good.

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

Edited July 22, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher

[class27]

Jinty

It is the standard Dapol installation  throughout  which has been working fine since I got it. I have not used it for a couple of months and lo and behold this just happened . I have went through the sound functions and everything works as it should except that when the shunting lights are switched on the sound fades out  and none of the sound functions then work, or lights. if you switch the shunting lights on first then nothing works thereafter, but in all cases the loco can still be driven

I have become a convert to Paul Chetters working brakes on some of his projects. I have them on a class 20 and 26 and they are brilliant on my short layout, so may send the factory zimo chip for a reblow

cheers

[Jintyman]

Jinty

It is the standard Dapol installation  throughout  which has been working fine since I got it. I have not used it for a couple of months and lo and behold this just happened . I have went through the sound functions and everything works as it should except that when the shunting lights are switched on the sound fades out  and none of the sound functions then work, or lights. if you switch the shunting lights on first then nothing works thereafter, but in all cases the loco can still be driven

I have become a convert to Paul Chetters working brakes on some of his projects. I have them on a class 20 and 26 and they are brilliant on my short layout, so may send the factory zimo chip for a reblow

cheers

 

 

Sounds strange!!!

I agree, I think a reblow would benefit it.

 

Jinty

[rob D2]

Yes I had several issues and had to return locos for replacement and refund but loco not bad value in my opinion. If it's perfection you are seeking then paying closer to £1,200+ for a mass-produced version from some of the leading locomotive suppliers if this model was available for purchase (eg Lee Marsh or Mastermodels) then you might get you what you want. I said might... I have a small loco from one of these manufactures and it was not perfect even for that money. Sounds like you are expecting too much from Dapol for such a cheaply mass produced item. At the end of the day locos are not bad for money really and the one of the best O gauge locos I have purchased (well that's in my opinion). I have built many white metal a etched brass 0 gauge locos in my time so nice to have something that is accurate and at long last straight out of the box and at such a low cost compared to the kits.

I don’t buy that. For £19,£191, £1000 ,...I expect the product to not be broken for gods sake. That’s not perfection that’s quality control/ fit for purpose

Edited July 25, 2018 by rob D2

[CME and Bottlewasher]

It is all down to QC and sadly one has to be very hands on to ensure QC in Chinese factories and pay for QC. Speaking with a supplier of mine and he's pulling his hair out over battery quality....as so much is made in China. A communist plot? Maybe not that far from the truth as project erosion UK seems in full swing and rolls ever onwards.

[Greenmodelmonkey]

I don’t buy that. For £19,£191, £1000 ,...I expect the product to not be broken for gods sake. That’s not perfection that’s quality control/ fit for purpose

Quality control is not a free service, so the less you pay the less you get... pretty obvious really. If it's not fit for purpose send it back.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Quality control is not a free service, so the less you pay the less you get... pretty obvious really. If it's not fit for purpose send it back.

 

At the sort of failure rates quoted above, it will be costing a lot more to resolve the issues after sale than it would to do good QC.

 

The packaging looks quite good but some of the problems mentioned (bits falling off) sound like faults relating to the packaging.

[Greenmodelmonkey]

At the sort of failure rates quoted above, it will be costing a lot more to resolve the issues after sale than it would to do good QC.

 

The packaging looks quite good but some of the problems mentioned (bits falling off) sound like faults relating to the packaging.

 

Do agree on this one but I doubt if many will return items as they will either accept or fix it themselves. So it maybe the returns are going to be low in comparison with the high sales volume which is priority I guess and just part of normal business. I notice quality issues seem to be an issue aross many products and yet the customer is still prepared to dig deep to get what they want warts anMejznerd all. Why spend money on getting product 100% right when the majority are quiet happy if it's sometimes less than perfect. Shame to say this and i want product to be 100% perfect but I'm going to be realistic and just pleased we are now getting some stunning models which we have never had before, and yes there may some imperfections I will just accept, if not it goes back.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Quality control is not a free service, so the less you pay the less you get... pretty obvious really. If it's not fit for purpose send it back.

What about TQM and continuous improvement?

At the sort of failure rates quoted above, it will be costing a lot more to resolve the issues after sale than it would to do good QC.

 

The packaging looks quite good but some of the problems mentioned (bits falling off) sound like faults relating to the packaging.

Agreed on the former. The latter, packaging of the models causing problems as opposed to the packaging itself? And/or quality regarding fit of detail items and the design thereof Eg. Buffers/buffer fitment

Do agree on this one but I doubt if many will return items as they will either accept or fix it themselves. So it maybe the returns are going to be low in comparison with the high sales volume which is priority I guess and just part of normal business. I notice quality issues seem to be an issue aross many products and yet the customer is still prepared to dig deep to get what they want warts anMejznerd all. Why spend money on getting product 100% right when the majority are quiet happy if it's sometimes less than perfect. Shame to say this and i want product to be 100% perfect but I'm going to be realistic and just pleased we are now getting some stunning models which we have never had before, and yes there may some imperfections I will just accept, if not it goes back.

Emperor's new clothes syndrome? Cynical on the part of Dapol and Heljan! Unethical too. I'd suggest a watch of the insightful cult B movie 'They Live'.......'buy, conform, consume, comply and multiply'. We don't have to 'herded'! Edited July 26, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Greenmodelmonkey]

What about TQM and continuous improvement? Agreed on the former. The latter, packaging of the models causing problems as opposed to the packaging itself? And/or quality regarding fit of detail items and the design thereof Eg. Buffers/buffer fitment Emperor's new clothes syndrome? Cynical on the part of Dapol and Heljan! Unethical too. I'd suggest a watch of the insightful cult B movie 'They Live'.......'buy, conform, consume, comply and multiply'. We don't have to 'herded'!

Worthwhile TQM and continuous improvements needs willing participants and desire to do something differently which costs money and effort. Getting the next product to market is likely to be business priority of the day as this will generate more immediate revenue. I agree this is not how it should work but it feels like it from my point of cynical view.

 

Nothing unethical it's just a business method/target supported by a returns process if customer is not happy. I would call it business risk management.

 

Not seen movie but will watch thank you.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Greenmodelmonkey

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Worthwhile TQM and continuous improvements needs willing participants and desire to do something differently which costs money and effort. Getting the next product to market is likely to be business priority of the day as this will generate more immediate revenue. I agree this is not how it should work but it feels like it from my point of cynical view.

Nothing unethical it's just a business method/target supported by a returns process if customer is not happy. I would call it business risk management.

Not seen movie but will watch thank you.

Hi,

I agree with the former, and parts of the latter. Modern business if carried out as you suggest is unethical, slipshod and morally corrupt. No need for that type of risk management if the business is run well to start with. And therein lies the problem as such will lead to humanity's demise if we are not careful. I've always been taught to make a fair profit, reinvest, treat employees well and with respect, delight customers, be firm and fair, yet negotiate hard, and tell bean counters and lawyers exactly where their true place in the food chain is - either that or get some pesticide/have them surgically removed. Sadly in this mad world 'shareholder capitalism' reigns supreme and there is a downward spiral - a race to the bottom. But then I look at life through the right sunglasses!

 

It will be interesting to see what the next batch of 08s are like.

Edited July 26, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher