The Bournemouth West Model Railway Group / Now known as The South Coast Model Railway Development Group / TSCMRDG

[Roger Sunderland]

Hi Roger,

There's plenty of evidence in Peter Smith's books (Mendips Engineman and Footplate over the Mendips) that M7s were not very powerful (see p 67 of the combined book- additionally they were addicted to priming (according to him). With regard to trains backing down to the carriage sidings, as distinct to the train loco being released by the station pilot, I have a memory from one of my books that this did happen, but how often and under which circumstances I'm not sure. I'll see what I can dig up. Most of my books on the subject relate to the S&D, but one or two are more specific to BW- Lawrence Popplewells "Bournemouth Railway History" is a good book, as is "Last Days of Steam in Dorset" by David Haysome and Julien Parker, but neither are detailed on the services running from stations. I was researching these as I intend to try and run my model based on March 1956- when I was born! This turned out to be quite fortuitous- liveries on coaches were in transition, but that on locos had stabilised. Other books that might help are "The 19th Century Railways of Bournemouth and Christchurch" by JA Young, and "Railways of Dorset" by JH Lucking. 

Anyway, I'll keep digging. On top of that, I might have some tapes my Uncle Phil (PB Myers) recorded over the S&D, possibly including departures from BW. He loaned some to the S&D Trust at Washford who transferred them to cassette-they're probably on CD now.

ATB

David

Many thanks for this Arctica, must confess I've not come accross all the titles you mention so I'll have a look out for them. If the tapes surface that would be a real bonus. From what we can establish, the local services, such as the S&D and Salisbury stuff were shunted from platform to platform by the station pilot, an M7 or, in later years an Ivatt 2-6-2T. The longer distance services are the ones we would like further info on. There is photographic evidence of the Belle backing it's train through the carriage washer to the carriage sidings but similar info on the Pines, Bradford, York and other services is not available. We also know that the pilot brought stock down the bank into the platforms and was then used to bank the train on departure. In practice, because of the extremely congested nature of this terminus I think a combination of all methods was used, depending on wether the service was due out again quickly or the stock needed to be split/sorted for a future service. I think what we need is a log of a typical days activity - but I very much doubt one will exist now!

[Barneytheblack5]

 

I sneaked in to Bournemouth West on Sunday only to find the platforms deserted but as the weather was deteriorating, I sheltered under the new canopy being built......... 

[bgman]

Thank you for the memories, this is a superb piece of modelling.

I spent my holidays on the outskirts of Bournemouth as a young trainspotter when i visited my grandparents each year and would frequent this station a couple of times whilst I was there. Travelling down from Crewe was like a dream come true for me each year and the final destination never disappointed !

Once again, thank you.

 

p.s. I also remember those Bournemouth Corporation trolley buses too nice memories !

Edited January 6, 2017 by bgman

[Ceptic]

Recent news :-   We've received a 'Cracker' of a (Copyrighted) photo from Pete Burton. A SWTrains Driver colleague / mate of my Son.

 

Taken from a departing train, It shows the Eastern / Station end of the Box in greater detail. It also shows that the 'mysterious monolith' is not an advertising hoarding,  but something that resembles 'Cleopatra's Needle'. It appears to be just to the rear of the entrance lobby,

I kid you not. At a guess. I would say (In approx. Imperial measures) that it tapers from 1 Foot square at it's ground level base to 9 Inches square at it's top, which is just above the level of the Box's guttering.

 

It's just a damn shame that I can't put the photo on here, to invite your comments.

 

All the best,

Frank.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Ceptic

[Roger Sunderland]

A very good picture indeed Ceptic, but no one has any idea what the white post is behind the box.

 

As can be seen from Barneys photo the canopy on platforms 3,4,5 and 6 is in its "raw" state, but looking good. The roofing, other than in the concourse area and along the front of the station building was all corrugated asbestos sheeting. A shipping order of the Wills product has been put in. We are experimenting with a new (to me) automatic coupler for use by the station pilots. Marketed by Precimodels from Switzerland it consists of a micro actuator attached to the knuckle of any Kadee coupling. Using the special function on a Zimo decoder, by pressing just one function key a locomotive will :

 

Back its train up slightly - open the coupling knuckle - reverse back slightly.

 

This means totally remote uncoupling anywhere on the layout - without any magnets and, if robust enough for exhibition use, will mean we can dispense with uncoupling magnets from all the platform throats. I'll try and give a further update on this in future plus maybe a video if possible.

[Dunsignalling]

We are experimenting with a new (to me) automatic coupler for use by the station pilots. Marketed by Precimodels from Switzerland it consists of a micro actuator attached to the knuckle of any Kadee coupling. Using the special function on a Zimo decoder, by pressing just one function key a locomotive will :

 

Back its train up slightly - open the coupling knuckle - reverse back slightly.

 

This means totally remote uncoupling anywhere on the layout - without any magnets and, if robust enough for exhibition use, will mean we can dispense with uncoupling magnets from all the platform throats. I'll try and give a further update on this in future plus maybe a video if possible.

I'll look forward to your findings.

 

I've just looked at their website and was pleasantly surprised at the cost, especially when compared with Kadee electric uncouplers. 

 

This could be just the thing required to finally persuade me to go DCC.

 

Regards

 

John

[Ian J.]

That's an interesting development. I just did a look up on Google for Precimodels, and found a thread here on the subject:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97329-precimodels-remote-uncoupler-for-kadee-dcc/

[PaulRhB]

Recent news :- We've received a 'Cracker' of a (Copyrighted) photo from Pete Burton. A SWTrains Driver colleague / mate of my Son.

 

Taken from a departing train, It shows the Eastern / Station end of the Box in greater detail. It also shows that the 'mysterious monolith' is not an advertising hoarding, but something that resembles 'Cleopatra's Needle'. It appears to be just to the rear of the entrance lobby,

I kid you not. At a guess. I would say (In approx. Imperial measures) that it tapers from 1 Foot square at it's ground level base to 9 Inches square at it's top, which is just above the level of the Box's guttering.

 

It's just a damn shame that I can't put the photo on here, to invite your comments.

 

All the best,

Frank.

Glad the requests found something eventually

I wonder what it actually was? Intriguing!

[bike2steam]

 I think what we need is a log of a typical days activity - but I very much doubt one will exist now!

Would this help, or partly help ?? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Southern-Region-Engine-Workings-Gammell/dp/0860935108/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483787591&sr=8-1&keywords=southern+region+engine+workings

 

Also there is a list of all the workings at Bournemouth West on summer Saturdays in 1957 in the Express Publishing book ( page 31)  'District Controller's View No.5 S&DJR Summer Saturdays 1957' now out of print and rare as rocking horse doings, is 1957 before your modelling period ??

Edited January 7, 2017 by bike2steam

[Roger Sunderland]

Would this help, or partly help ?? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Southern-Region-Engine-Workings-Gammell/dp/0860935108/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483787591&sr=8-1&keywords=southern+region+engine+workings

 

Also there is a list of all the workings at Bournemouth West on summer Saturdays in 1957 in the Express Publishing book ( page 31)  'District Controller's View No.5 S&DJR Summer Saturdays 1957' now out of print and rare as rocking horse doings, is 1957 before your modelling period ??

Thank you Bike to Steam, the engine workings book may be useful. I would love to get a copy of the Express publishing book, I've tried everywhere but as you say, out of print and probably remaining so. 1957 just about creeps into our timescale.

[Roger Sunderland]

I'll look forward to your findings.

 

I've just looked at their website and was pleasantly surprised at the cost, especially when compared with Kadee electric uncouplers. 

 

This could be just the thing required to finally persuade me to go DCC.

 

Regards

 

John

Hi John

 

Have put one of these in a SEF M7, just on the front coupler and using a Zimo decoder. I burnt out the first attempt by not programming in the correct CVs. The actuator, when pulling on the knuckle head is in stall mode and you need to limit the "on" to between 5 and 10 seconds max. The Zimo chip can be set up to do this for you and the instruction booklet that comes with the units is very well written and comprehensive, I'm just not that good at sorting out Cvs and re mapping, however Paulie Banger helped me out on this and I now have a comprehensive list of CVs that need programming. ESU decoders can also be used but the Cvs are different. In fact you can use any decoder with 3 functions as long as you can limit how long the actuator is "on" . Only the ESU andZimo decoders provide a facility to shuffle back (reduces tension on coupling) uncouple and shuffle forward to complete disengagement.

 

The test will be to see if they are robust enough to last the rigours of running through a full sequence at an exhibition.

 

I'm currently setting up a second trial on a Hornby class700 which will have operating uncouplers both front and back. This will be used to shunt the yard on BW.

[Ceptic]

A very good picture indeed Ceptic, but no one has any idea what the white post is behind the box.

 

As can be seen from Barneys photo the canopy on platforms 3,4,5 and 6 is in its "raw" state, but looking good. The roofing, other than in the concourse area and along the front of the station building was all corrugated asbestos sheeting. A shipping order of the Wills product has been put in. We are experimenting with a new (to me) automatic coupler for use by the station pilots. Marketed by Precimodels from Switzerland it consists of a micro actuator attached to the knuckle of any Kadee coupling. Using the special function on a Zimo decoder, by pressing just one function key a locomotive will :

 

Back its train up slightly - open the coupling knuckle - reverse back slightly.

 

This means totally remote uncoupling anywhere on the layout - without any magnets and, if robust enough for exhibition use, will mean we can dispense with uncoupling magnets from all the platform throats. I'll try and give a further update on this in future plus maybe a video if possible.

 

Hi Roger,

 

I've just e-mailed you the Vector format drawings for the Canopy Valances. The rectangular 'Holes' in the Valances over Platforms 4 & 5 are to accept the Cross Bracing / Troughs. The ones pictured look a little on the 'heavy' side. They were. in fact, 12 inches high X 9+ inches wide, fabricated Channel (Open at the top).

 

All the best.

Frank. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by Ceptic

[dpgibbons]

I have the SR Engine Workings book. It does cover Bournemouth shed diagrams but it's unclear if it covers all of them.

 

A better source of operational material is "BR Operating History - SR Part 3" by Xpress Books. There are several paras devoted to ECS pilot work at Bomo W. ECS was generally propelled into the station by either the pilot or the train engine; heavy trains were drawn in by the pilot which would then provide banking assistance to the platform end. For departing ECS, propelling stock was forbidden so the M7 pilot would attach to the rear and draw up to 12 ECS (the station limit), with assistance from the train engine as far as the platform end. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by dpgibbons

[sanddman54]

I have the SR Engine Workings book. It does cover Bournemouth shed diagrams but it's unclear if it covers all of them.

 

A better source of operational material is "BR Operating History - SR Part 3" by Xpress Books. There are several paras devoted to ECS pilot work at Bomo W. ECS was generally propelled into the station by either the pilot or the train engine; heavy trains were drawn in by the pilot which would then provide banking assistance to the platform end. For departing ECS, propelling stock was forbidden so the M7 pilot would attach to the rear and draw up to 12 ECS (the station limit), with assistance from the train engine as far as the platform end. 

It may have been forbidden but I have photographic evidence that appears to show it did. For example at about 2 mins into Memories Of The Somerset And Dorset by Branchline Video, 2P 40563 can be seen backing out a 3 coach Bullied set towards the carriage sidings.

[Roger Sunderland]

Thanks to dpgibbons and sanddman54, this is just the type of info we are after. I have also seen pictures of the Bournemouth Belle being propelled out of the platform and back through the carriage washer but the Belle was a fast turnaround arriving around midday and departing around 2pm, maybe this was the reason?

Edited January 13, 2017 by Roger Sunderland

[scottystitch]

I have the SR Engine Workings book. It does cover Bournemouth shed diagrams but it's unclear if it covers all of them.

 

A better source of operational material is "BR Operating History - SR Part 3" by Xpress Books. There are several paras devoted to ECS pilot work at Bomo W. ECS was generally propelled into the station by either the pilot or the train engine; heavy trains were drawn in by the pilot which would then provide banking assistance to the platform end. For departing ECS, propelling stock was forbidden so the M7 pilot would attach to the rear and draw up to 12 ECS (the station limit), with assistance from the train engine as far as the platform end. 

I'm finding this whole discussion very interesting, but I am having trouble following this highlighted section. I realise I am probably being a bit thick, but what does this mean? Is it the train engine that is hauling the ECS to the carriage sidings, with the Pilot providing initial banking, as per the previous sentence for a service departure?......

 

Apologies........

[Ian J.]

I'm finding this whole discussion very interesting, but I am having trouble following this highlighted section. I realise I am probably being a bit thick, but what does this mean? Is it the train engine that is hauling the ECS to the carriage sidings, with the Pilot providing initial banking, as per the previous sentence for a service departure?......

 

Apologies........

 

Nope. What's happening is the train arrives at the terminus that is Bournemouth West, having gone past the carriage sidings on the way in. That means the train engine is 'locked in' by the carriages behind it. The pilot would then connect up to the rear of the train which is at the platform ends, and haul it to the carriage sidings, with some banking assistance from the train engine, until the train engine reaches the platform end where it would stop helping and leave the pilot to carry on hauling the train to the carriage sidings.

[dpgibbons]

I imagine that there would be a pilot engine at the front of the Belle in the pics above so technically the MN would be assisting rather than propelling. But then again it seems edicts from Waterloo were often quietly overlooked when expedient, so it would not be a surprise if the ban on propelling out of the station was overlooked when the train was short or the pilot was otherwise engaged.

 

The process for dealing with ECS makes sense from an operational perspective as banking only as far as the starter signals at platform end would mean that the engine at rear would not need to be coupled up and could thus be released to shed as soon as the ECS had passed into the carriage sidings road.  

[phil_sutters]

Although not necessarily answering your OP, these items from Dad's log books and albums may be of interest. I am not sure where the caption on the second photo got its info from, so I don't know whether you can rely on it to answer your OP. Dad wasn't around when I scanned and captioned his albums. My guess is that c s means carriage shunting

 

 

Edited January 14, 2017 by phil_sutters

[Poolelad]

Amazing, I've been a forum member for quite sometime and never seen this thread, until now. Oh how it takes me back.

I remember as a young lad catching the bus to BW and peering through the railings into the station. Those boards in front of the loco in the shot I remember those so clearly. We caught the train to Bath and then on to Bristol. The layout time warps me back to those days, especially more poignant as I drive past the site everyday, and still dream. Platform 19 cafe always a reminder of the lost heritage.

This is a great project and I look forward to seeing it in the flesh, hopefully taking my grandson along for a history lesson. Keep up the great project, whilst I read the thread again and reminisce.

[sanddman54]

Awful quality frame grabs of train arriving from York and then being propelled back into the carriage sidings by a Hall (the train engine).

[Ian J.]

Although not necessarily answering your OP, these items from Dad's log books and albums may be of interest. I am not sure where the caption on the second photo got its info from, so I don't know whether you can rely on it to answer your OP. Dad wasn't around when I scanned and captioned his albums. My guess is that c s means carriage shunting

BtoB17 SDJR 87 at Bournemouth 11 8 62.jpg

 

Is anyone knowledgeable enough to be able to tell if the 7F has its reversing gear in the right arrangement to be likely to be reversing in that last shot?

[Roger Sunderland]

Wow, this is great stuff! The Hall in the frame grabs could well be Lady Margaret Hall who was a regular on the York service, being attached at Oxford. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if the 7F is reversing though.

[Roger Sunderland]

Although not necessarily answering your OP, these items from Dad's log books and albums may be of interest. I am not sure where the caption on the second photo got its info from, so I don't know whether you can rely on it to answer your OP. Dad wasn't around when I scanned and captioned his albums. My guess is that c s means carriage shunting

 

Highbridge to Bournemouth 11 8 1962 a.jpg

Highbridge to Bournemouth 11 8 1962 b.jpg

 

BtoB16 SDJR 86 at Bournemouth 11 8 62.jpg

BtoB17 SDJR 87 at Bournemouth 11 8 62.jpg

Phil thank you so much for sharing the contents of your dads log. Info like this is vital if we are to get it right. The loco numbers are also of immense value as, other than one of our group, none of us were around in the 60s. Can I ask if there is any more info like this. If so, would you be willing to share it with us?

[phil_sutters]

Phil thank you so much for sharing the contents of your dads log. Info like this is vital if we are to get it right. The loco numbers are also of immense value as, other than one of our group, none of us were around in the 60s. Can I ask if there is any more info like this. If so, would you be willing to share it with us?

Hi Roger

 

Dad didn't get as far as Bournemouth very often, but I'll have a look through his log books. One of my favorites among his photos is this one. I know it was taken at Central, but it came from West. (That gives me another date to look up in the logs!)

Edited January 14, 2017 by phil_sutters