Harbledown Railroad Heritage Line (Wisconsin Central)

[PhilH]

Chris, as always google is your friend!

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wisconsin_railroads

[Glorious NSE]

The other trap that folk fall into is that *all* your stock needs to be WC - not so, they still hauled lots of cars interchanged from other railroads, plus private owner cars - add to that not all of WCs cars wore their paint (cars in Soo Line paint included at start-up for instance, plus from other roads they purchased like Algoma Central or Green Bay & Western) or even WC reporting marks and you have a lot of potential variety! - That said, my impression is that WC operated far more of their own cars than is usual on most of today's regionals or shortlines.

As others have said, to get a look you're happy with, absorbing info from assorted video's, DVDs, books, online photo's etc should help you a lot, and until you get your head around the look you want you still have something to run in the interim, even if you later trade or modify it.

Ref a second loco - even keeping it WC you have a similar story to freightcars, Algoma Central and Fox River Valley (again, both purchased by WC) painted loco's stood out as part of WCs fleet (as did GB&W's Alco's, briefly!) - plus there were loco's still in WC patched Soo Line paint for a long, long time, not to mention leased units and run-through power from other railroads....

For a different railroad operating during WC's independent operational period?
CNW (part of UP post 1995)
BN (part of BNSF post 1996)
Soo Line (Gradually becoming more and more overtly Canadian Pacific over the period of WC's independent operation)

Wisconsin & Southern (another local regional with another pretty colour scheme)
GB&W (purchased by WC 1993)
FRVR (purchased by WC 1993)

Keep in mind that WC also operated into Chicago, a mix with they myriad of other roads there is easily possible, including Metra commuter trains and Amtrak.

An alternative take? Move your chosen period forward to just after WC ceased to be independent - WC was purchased by CN in 2001, a layout set in the early to mid 00s allows you a "rainbow" combined loco fleet from the WC, plus EJ&E, DMIR, CN, IC, GTW and BC Rail even!....some really gorgeous mixes of power are evident in images from the time, you could spend several lifetimes modelling the variety in that combined fleet if you so wanted, and post digital so there is a large quantity of prototype information online on the loco's and for choosing car types, weathering etc...

Edited December 3, 2015 by Glorious NSE

[DelawareAndHudson]

Maybe look for something like a Chicago & North Western S-1 in the "Route of the Streamliners" scheme.  That will set solidly in the 1950's and give you a locomotive that will go well with the older stock you picked up.  Here's a picture of one from 1951.

 

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0102/cnw1256.jpg

 

Or  an SW1 if you prefer EMD's.

 

https://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/910-9227

 

 

Jason

[DanielB]

You can never go wrong with an Alco RS3.

 

They are old classics that got EVERYWHERE and are still around - albeit on shortlines (privately owned branchlines) or heritage (preserved) railroads.

 

Great thing about the RS3 is that Bachmann makes a great DCC Sound fitted one that is really cheap (if DCC and sound is where you want to go), and they are otherwise easy to find in model form.

 

 

The best advice I can give you: Go to shows/exhibitions that are USA themed - they crop up more than you'd think - and check the second hand sections. For freight cars, look at the side of the car. All US freight cars have a "NEW - XX" or "CON - XX" or something along those lines, where the XX is the year they were either built as new, or consolidated into a railroad's fleet. If those NEW dates are 70's onwards, you're golden.

 

Freight cars go all over the place, so it's not impossible to see a Canadian box car down in Texas, or a New York based car over in California. That is also compounded by the fact that there are companies like Trailer Train (TTX)/Railbox or Chicago Freight Car Leasing that own pools of freight cars and lease them out to railroads or rail served customers to fit their needs.

 

Say the Wisconsin Central finds itself short of bulkhead flatcars after a sudden surge in traffic that requires that car type to ship - they turn to TTX and say "We need 50 bulkhead flat cars asap". TTX goes away, gathers up as many as it can spare and delivers them to their new customer.

 

Happens all the time - and not just with freight cars - leased locomotives pop up all over the place (often wearing colour schemes from long gone railroads that the leaser just hasn't bothered to paint over!).

[DanielB]

Whilst I think about it - a great learning resource I'm rarely off of is American Rails.

 

http://www.american-rails.com/

 

It's like Wikipedia but in much more depth.

 

Oh, and I'm sure you've probably picked up on it by the matching liveries, but the Wisconsin Central used to own EWS.

Edited December 4, 2015 by DanielB

[Chris116]

The Wisconsin Central ownership of EWS and the fact that my wife comes from Wisconsin were the reason for starting my adventure in American Railroading. I liked the EWS livery long before I saw it in the USA and now sadly it is being replaced by DB red which while nice is not as good as the maroon and gold of WC/EWS. The other sad thing is that DB do not appear to know how to clean a loco anymore. Most of the EWS livery locos coming through West Brompton, where I work, are so dirty they make BR steam in the 60's look sparkling! Thank you for the link DanielB I will be making a lot of use of that.

[DelawareAndHudson]

Chris,

 

This one might also be a bit larger than what you're looking at but it's one of my favorites for a small layout.  It's on Page 70 of Carl's Scrapbook at the bottom of the page.  Layout is called Iota.  The original was set in Oklahoma but it is generic and 'American' enough that the basic concept could work pretty well in nearly any North American setting. 

 

http://www.carendt.com/small-layout-scrapbook/page-70-february-2008/

 

 

I don't love building benchwork so this layout is on my list to do using a hollow core door for a base. The original was 17"x56".  Using a HCD as a base, mine will between 18"x80" and 24"x80" depending on how much space I decide I need for scenery and structures.  Mine will be set in Upstate NY as the end of an old New York Central branch that has been cut back over the years and now the little community of East Iota is the current end of the line.  Being set in Upstate NY, I'll have a feed mill instead of a grain elevator.  The part of NY that I grew up in, agriculture was primarily dairy farms or apple orchards so it's far more common to have a feed mill receiving inbound grain and feed products than an elevator shipping grain out of the area.  The apple business had long been lost to trucks as far as I can tell by the mid-70's.  The siding in the picture and drawing to the left of the road will probably be a lumber/building supply yard and the siding on the right side of the station will have a small oil dealer at the end and a section of that same siding closer to the station will be a team track with an old wooden loading dock giving me three permanent customers plus any random customers I think of using the team track.  

 

We don't have as many exhibition type shows here but my hope is to bring East Iota to a couple of shows a year when it's done.  I'd love to see the exhibition layout concept grow here in the US.  We've long had modular layouts that setup at shows but the 'one man band' type layouts don't seem as common, at least at the shows I've attended over the years.

 

Jason

[BG John]

Chris,

 

This one might also be a bit larger than what you're looking at but it's one of my favorites for a small layout.  It's on Page 70 of Carl's Scrapbook at the bottom of the page.  Layout is called Iota.  The original was set in Oklahoma but it is generic and 'American' enough that the basic concept could work pretty well in nearly any North American setting. 

 

http://www.carendt.com/small-layout-scrapbook/page-70-february-2008/

I think you've helped me find what I'm looking for! Not American, but I might be able to turn Sutton Yard into a British O-16.5 layout. Thanks.

[bok]

Some comments regarding the video as I was a Trainmaster/engineer/conductor for the WC from start up in 1987 until 1996.

 

The job shown was a Marquette-Trout Lake (connection with Chicago-S.St. Marie main uisin sing SDL-39s (former Milw. Rd. units) good for rough branch line track as shown.

Leaving Marquette the train had a couple of mty boxes for KC at Munising for paper ldg, a flock of mty covered hopers which had brought up clay to the iron ore mines at Ispeming( west of Marquette) to be used as a binder in making taconite ore which the WC did not participate inhauling.

 

At Munising they split the power to back down into the KC tissue plant to p/u a ld box of tissue, an mty cholrine tank(?) and a couple of mty, clay slurry tanks.

  

At Forrest Center or Shingleton I can't remember which on the video, they p/u a boxcar ld.of lumber and then that would be it until they reached the junction at Trout Lake where they would s/o their train and p/u inbound cars for the branch After lunch they would head back to Marquette peddling any cars for stations along the line.

 

Outside of covered hoppers tanks of chemicals and a few boxes the only other cars would be large LPG tanks of gas for Lanse (west of Marquette) and maybe a misc. gon of scrap or machinery flat. The cars the modeler listed earlier would all be incorrect for this job in the 80/90s. A further note about the illustrated operation. While the crew was very effecient and safe the engineer clearly was violating the max. track speed which as I recall was 25MPH and usually 10 in most spots.

 

Up date for 2015. The track is not gone from Munising Jct. to Maquette as is the roundhouse and turntable there. The CN sold off the SDL-39s (we called them "baby six wheelers") to a road in South America and the CN/WC now gets into the Ispeming and west track by running on a former CNW now CN route. With the gradual elimination of many Wisconsin paper mills

(who uses paper anymore with the growth of the internet?) it's anybody's guess how long the little mill will survive. Such is the sad state of upper Wisconsin/Michigan railroading in 2015: not much to haul outside of a little paper, the chemicals, some frack sand, propane, a little pulpwood and some misc. commodities too big and heavy for a truck.

 

Barry

[Chris116]

Well I got the sheet of MDF for the baseboard. I cannot understand why a 4 x 1 sheet is more expensive than a 4 x 2 sheet! Still I can cut the sheet I have into two and that means I will be able to build another 4 x 1 later on!

 

Looking at a possible layout I am still trying to decide on either Iota which DelawareAndHudson gave a link to above or the plan above that which the original had the same five points as Iota. I think the final plan will be somewhere between the two. I will visit a few shops and eBay to get a few suitable small buildings to set the scene as somewhere in the Mid West.

 

Peco code 83 track and points have been ordered which will suit both plans. Points will be hand operated to start with but suitable holes will be put into the board so that fitting motors for the points will be a simple job if I want to. I will also start with a stick to uncouple the stock but the second layout may well have magnetic uncoupling fitted, it all depends on how things work out on this first layout.

 

Once again many thanks to everyone who has given me advice and encouragement on this project.

[shortliner]

If anyone would like the original IOTA article PM me an email address and I'll send you the two pages

[Chris116]

Sorry about the lack of updates but progress is held up until after the New Year for a number of reasons.

 

I now have two very nice Wisconsin Central hopper wagons, thank you DelawareAndHudson.

 

There have been a number of shunting puzzle/timesaver layouts being discussed here and I have been watching how they progress so I can avoid problems that others have already found out about!

 

Happy Christmas to all who follow this topic.

[CourthsVeil]

Hi Chris, just looking if there is any update on this layout. Have been looking out for news for a while.

Hope everything is still going OK.

 

Regards

  Armin

[Chris116]

Sadly no news at present but I retired on 13 May and have started getting estimates for new four foot high wardrobes all round my bedroom. In case you are wondering the top of the wardrobes will be the base board for my British outline layout and a shelf above will be for the Wisconsin layout which may therefore be extended to ten feet long. Once I have more news I will keep you all updated as I have had a lot of help from people and I feel they should see how I have put that kindness to good use.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Chris116

[Chris116]

Just over four years and today I finally cut the 4' x 2' board into two 4' by 1' boards. The plan is to have an 8' x 1' layout. I got a fair amount of extra stock just after my last post which was hidden in various boxes of my British stock so that it was not found by SWMBO. I know I got a small steam loco which I intend to use for a preserved passenger service, I also have a SOO line EMD GP7 number 378. I think I can now run the layout at two eras, mid 1960's and early 2000's. Once I have laid the track and got it running using 378 to test everything I will go hunting for the rest of the stock and then have a good sort out so that things are run in the right timescale. 

I will try to ensure I have some updates at regular intervals in the future as many of you gave me a great deal of help when I first asked and I have not upheld my end of the bargain.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Chris116
Spelling Mistake!

[Chris116]

Here is the plan for the layout. I will use buildings that can be replaced so that it can also be used for a Wisbech and Upwell Tramway type layout that can be used for my J70 that arrived this week as a late birthday present from my wife. 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Chris116
Improved track diagram

[Chris116]

Starting to get going! Two four foot by one foot baseboards with four inch high mdf backscene. Now I have to sort out how to keep the two board aligned. Then I can start the track laying and see some of my models in action and then sort out the scenery which I am going to try to make suitable for both Wisconsin and Cambridgeshire which could be entertaining! The few buildings will be replaced with suitable ones depending on what I am running. 

[Chris116]

I have been thinking about this layout and have decided that it will be run as a US shortline which has preserved passenger services, a bit like the Strasburg Railroad in Pennsylvania. I will use it to run the J70 and other small British locos but they will be running through USA countryside!

 

I am still undecided on how to keep the boards aligned but easy to store as two pieces.

[Chris116]

Over the past few months the most exciting thing my wife and I have done is to go to the local park and fed the ducks, geese and swans. They have got to know us and as soon as we appear they appear from all parts of the lake. Although we have been doing very little I still never seem to have time to get on with the work of building the layout so I can have the fun of operating it but finally yesterday I found my mojo and have the two boards joined with two dowels keeping them aligned and toggle catch latches to keep them together.

 

I have all the points that I need having bought one of the code 83 Y points to make two roads in the fiddle yard. However I have discovered that I may need an extra yard or two of flexi track to complete the layout and I can't get to a shop to buy them as it would hardly be a journey I could do under the lockdown rules and to order it online and have it posted requires that I buy 25 yards which is a lot more than I require. I think my best way of dealing with this is to build all the points with track between them but leave the fiddle yard as single track with the point in position to add the second track once I have some. I may also only lay one of  the  two sidings in front of the fiddle yard for now. Means that once the track is laid I can test and once I get the extra track can complete things very easily.

 

I have three tracks going over the baseboard joint which I shall lay with a screw below each rail that I can solder to the rails. Once I am happy with the joints I can use my disk cutter to split the track. I just hope it all stays aligned correctly.

 

The idea of having the layout duel purpose is still the plan. As I having suitable buildings at first it will be an English countryside  that is built but with all buildings embedded but removable so that once American buildings have been obtained they can be swapped in the same way as the stock is. I do not intend to make it look particularly like the Wisbech area as it will be a preservation set up with a number of other small locos joining the J70. In American guise it will be run like the Strasburg Preservation line that is on the Virtual Railfan site that I spend far too much time watching. The fiddle yard will have a large number of trees to block the view of trains sitting there. As I have 70 trees the rest of the layout will also have trees acting as view blockers.

 

The line at the back of the station is not connected to the rest of the layout and will be used as a spot to place stock that is being displayed.

 

If anyone has a better idea on anything I have mentioned please tell me as I am only too happy to have help.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Chris116
Failed to add the updated plan.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

19 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

Over the past few months the most exciting thing my wife and I have done is to go to the local park and fed the ducks, geese and swans. They have got to know us and as soon as we appear they appear from all parts of the lake. Although we have been doing very little I still never seem to have time to get on with the work of building the layout so I can have the fun of operating it but finally yesterday I found my mojo and have the two boards joined with two dowels keeping them aligned and toggle catch latches to keep them together.

 

I have all the points that I need having bought one of the code 83 Y points to make two roads in the fiddle yard. However I have discovered that I may need an extra yard or two of flexi track to complete the layout and I can't get to a shop to buy them as it would hardly be a journey I could do under the lockdown rules and to order it online and have it posted requires that I buy 25 yards which is a lot more than I require. I think my best way of dealing with this is to build all the points with track between them but leave the fiddle yard as single track with the point in position to add the second track once I have some. I may also only lay one of  the  two sidings in front of the fiddle yard for now. Means that once the track is laid I can test and once I get the extra track can complete things very easily.

 

I have three tracks going over the baseboard joint which I shall lay with a screw below each rail that I can solder to the rails. Once I am happy with the joints I can use my disk cutter to split the track. I just hope it all stays aligned correctly.

 

The idea of having the layout duel purpose is still the plan. As I having suitable buildings at first it will be an English countryside  that is built but with all buildings embedded but removable so that once American buildings have been obtained they can be swapped in the same way as the stock is. I do not intend to make it look particularly like the Wisbech area as it will be a preservation set up with a number of other small locos joining the J70. In American guise it will be run like the Strasburg Preservation line that is on the Virtual Railfan site that I spend far too much time watching. The fiddle yard will have a large number of trees to block the view of trains sitting there. As I have 70 trees the rest of the layout will also have trees acting as view blockers.

 

The line at the back of the station is not connected to the rest of the layout and will be used as a spot to place stock that is being displayed.

 

If anyone has a better idea on anything I have mentioned please tell me as I am only too happy to have help.

Hi Chris.   Nice concept - I was wondering how you would manage the dual scenery / backscene till I read you have 70 trees!  
 

My one suggestion (based on my own experience with small layout spaces), would be to lay everything out on the board if you can and see if you’re happy with how close the tracks get to the edges of the baseboard - especially the rear where any front end overhang on locomotives might scrape against the backscene?  It’s inevitably going to be tight,  but it might be possible to bring the rear tracks forward a bit by easing the curves into the sidings if you need to.  Just a thought.

 

The other thing I do with Anyrail when I’m happy with a plan is to produce an ‘engineering’ version with a 2” grid and all the track lengths calculated and measured so I can cross-reference it to my 1:1 mock-up before I commit myself.   Keith.

[Chris116]

The backscenes I have are the six inch high Gaugemaster Country and Open Field items (GM752 and GM753) so very much English and they will not be covered for US operation at present although the idea of having an alternative that hangs over the fixed UK backscene does sound like a possible future improvement. 

 

The buildings I have at present are the Metcalfe Crofters Cottage and S&C Station Shelter. The Crofters Cottage is being built as two separate buildings and the Station Shelter may have a canopy added. I also have the Bilteezi SCATS Warehouse which is based on the one at Alresford next to the Mid Hants station. At present I am not sure if it will be used on this layout but the idea of using it as a backscene has crossed my mind more than once.

[z4driver]

16 hours ago, Chris116 said:

I have three tracks going over the baseboard joint which I shall lay with a screw below each rail that I can solder to the rails. Once I am happy with the joints I can use my disk cutter to split the track. I just hope it all stays aligned correctly.

 

This may of interest

 

[Chris116]

1 hour ago, z4driver said:

This may of interest

 

Looks like a good product that would make my job nice and easy if only they did the Code 83 sleeper spacing. I will have to have a think about the best way to proceed but it is certainly a very interesting product. Thank you for pointing it out to me. 

[Chris116]

I have now ordered the Modeltech ProTrack Rail Aligner. I know the sleeper spacing will be different to the rest of the track but I am sure that can be hidden with a little scenic work. 

 

I also looked in one of the very large boxes  that hide the American stock and found the three items which I could not resist taking a photo of. 

[z4driver]

I

2 hours ago, Chris116 said:

I have now ordered the Modeltech ProTrack Rail Aligner. I know the sleeper spacing will be different to the rest of the track but I am sure that can be hidden with a little scenic work. 

 

 

If the work as good as the video shows, we'll have to keep badgering for him to produce them for US sleeper spacing!!